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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I have just asked dh to move out - tell me I'm doing the right thing.

54 replies

NeedyW · 07/12/2008 15:46

It all relates to this thread

I mean it but I want him to do something to change my mind. I've told him he can stay until tomorrow. I've packed his bag. I've told him he can stay at a b&b and come to get the dcs after school for a couple of hours each day, but he is not to come in and I won't be talking to him right now.

I hope this is the cure and not the end of us.

I'm 4 months pregnant (which I didn't mention in the other thread)

He says he loves me but can't be there for me and he is causing so much aggro and stress. I just think it will be best if he has time to sort himself out.

Background in brief: DH depressed, treating me badly, tried to harm himself but I stopped him and got him on ADs, he stopped taking them after a couple of months without telling me, he got nasty again, he couldn't cope, says he wants to make things better but continuously lies and lets me down, is back on half his previous dose of ADs now (for 5 weeks, so not long enough to have made any difference) and is unwilling to go back up to the full amount (which did work for a while - the half dose was what he was on when he tried to selfharm).

I don't think he realises that his behaviour is pushing us towards divorce (even though I have said I cannot cope with this anymore). It seems as though with him here he has no need to get better IYSWIM.

I can't live with him like this anymore. I'm hoping it will only be for the short term and that the children will believe that he is working extra hours.

Am I doing the right thing? He doesn't want to go and cries and says he loves me, but they're just words.

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NeedyW · 07/12/2008 17:54

honestfriend, you don't explain why you think it's a bad move or offer any constructive suggestions. Please do, I would love to have a solution that didn't involve such a drastic change.

He is willing to move out. Which is a good sign in itself. Insofar as he is listening to me and respecting my wishes (a change in itself).

Wanting somebody who is currently behaving completely differently and abusing your feelings on a daily basis is not as simple as you make it. I want to be married to the man. Unfortunately he is currently ill. I have supported him and put up with a lot of behaviour that I would never forgive were he not ill. The man I am currently with is cruel and nasty - two things my husband is not. I am hoping that the shock of realising what he will lose (no one can go on waiting indefinitely, it's been 16 months so far, 5 months since he accepted that he's ill), will make him take the time to work through his problems. When he turns that corner I will be there to help him the rest of the way, but I cannot do it for him
And with a baby on the way he cannot be my priority anymore. I actually need to keep something back for myself. I need to be prepared to do this alone. I need that strength and at the moment he is taking it all.

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NeedyW · 07/12/2008 18:27

.

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Majeika · 07/12/2008 18:33

Could you not speak to your doctor and see if he could get your DH sectioned?

Sounds drastic but it might help and sort out the awful situation you find yourself in.

I have never experienced what you are going through but I do have a DH who refuses to ever go to the dr for health problems and it drives me crazy!! Most of it is not even urgent but the dr is there for a reason!

I really feel for you.

honestfriend · 07/12/2008 18:35

I suppose I felt that you were turfing him out when he is already "down and out". But from what you say, he is impossible to live with as he is. Is there no-one else who an support you- your GP for example? Could you try going f or an appt together to discuss your DH's position?

Malkuth · 07/12/2008 18:50

Have you talked to your GP? Mine have been incredibly supportive of me. Ultimately there is nothing they can do for H unless he asks for help but at least they know the situation. If your HV is ok she may be able to get you some support. Mine reckons she can get some assistance for a nursery place for DD2 aged 2 so that I have some time to get my head together.

QueenTinselShadow · 07/12/2008 19:00

He is an adult. You are and adult. But he seems to ill for you to handle.

NeedyW · 07/12/2008 19:03

Majeika, I think that might be a little too drastic

honestfriend, I'm not trying to kick him while he's down and I really have tried everything (apart from having him sectioned). I have spoken to the GP about him before and they were nice but realistic about how dh has to do this himself.

Malkuth I might consider talking to my HV, she was brilliant when I had PND - to the point of looking after the dcs while I saw a doctor.

As the evening is wearing on I'm feeling so sad. I still want him to do something so that this won't be necessary, but even if he did do something now it would be to put off moving out rather than to get better.

I really am trying to do this to make him better. He is so sure that we'll wake up one morning and everything will have miraculously fixed itself in the night. He needs to realise that it will take work on his part. He is no longer at a point of desperation (I'd never abandon him if he was) but he hasn't made any attempt to move further. He needs to take that next step.

I don't want him to go, but I'm trying to stay strong. If I give in now then I am giving him licence to behave however he wants towards me and he will have no reason to change.

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simpsonsChristmasSpecial · 07/12/2008 21:29

Needy - So sorry you are going through this

My DH had a pychotic episode a few months ago. I had to ring my mum in the early hours to come and get me and Dcs as I did not feel safe anymore.

I went through your dilemma now....wanting to put me and Dcs first as I could feel my mental state was starting to be affected and not wanting to give up on him iyswim.

I ended up staying t my mum's for 2mths. Our GP was fab and as I think might have been mentioned by someone else I spoke to my HV who was FAB too. The mental health team came and saw DH every day and gave him his medication etc. Me moving out gave DH a big shock and he realised I meant business.

When I did move back I had stipulations ie councilling, taking medication, talking to me about big decisions etc.Things are still not "normal" and I get sooo annoyed that everything is about him, how HE feels etc and sometimes I just want to shout but WHAT ABOUT ME?? Having said that things are moving in the right direction...fingers X

snowleopard · 07/12/2008 21:41

Needy I'm sorry I have to hurry atm so can't write much, but as you know I have been there and I think you are doing the right thing. A b&b could be difficult longer term, and I'd encourage him to consider staying with friends or family if that can be arranged - also I'd encourage him to keep up with counselling if he can (as well as ADs of course), and tell him you would love to talk to him, and see him, as long as he treats you with respect, no lies and no let-downs. The minute he fails at that, just kindly say "I am sorry but you are not showing me respect/being honest etc. as we agreed, I will speak to / see you later". Keep communications open, and give him a chance to show you he can do it IYSWIM. You may also find you miss and need him and want to ask to see him - that's OK.

Congratulations on your pregnancy btw!

TotalChaos · 07/12/2008 21:50

sorry you are going through this. from perspective of someone who has suffered from depression; just because there is a reason for someone's behaviour doesn't mean that you can't reach a point where you have to protect yourself and children's emotional welfare and enough is enough. Also I think particularly where children are involved it's important to follow medical advice re:ADs etc rather than take yourself off them (I presume in some sort of outburst of pride?)

hope that a break motivates him to make a greater effort with his mental health.

LoveBeingAMummyKissingSanta · 08/12/2008 22:51

Hey needy

Did you end up finding someone for you to talk too like a support group or something? They might be able to help you figure out if this is the best way forward.

I wish I could offer more advice but tbh you ahve already coped far better than I could ahve so big hugs []]

choosyfloosy · 08/12/2008 23:22

Just to say I've read your other thread and this one, and hope very much that things work out as you would like them to - it has certainly reached an impossible point.

when dh was off his medication for two months a year ago, I really couldn't see how we could continue to live together, although i never contemplated divorcing him. everything was so strange. I don't watch Dr Who because I know exactly what it's like having an alien in the house and it is deeply unpleasant and scary in a way that is hard to explain - the ground under my feet was quicksand. Within about 24 hours of him agreeing to take his meds again, the alien was gone and the quicksand was solid.

Try not to resent it if he has to hear what you've been telling him from someone else before he will believe it. I hope he does believe it though - you're doing the right thing.

I can't believe you've coped so well with all this, and you're pregnant too - congratulations by the way .

NeedyW · 09/12/2008 20:21

Thank you so much for all your replies, simpsonsChristmasSpecial, you've been through so much. It is hard with it constantly being about them and their needs. Of course we care, but that doesn't stop us needing support too.

Snowleopard I'm glad you found me you've helped so much since all this happened. I really appreciate the continued support.

Totalchaos thank you for understanding why I asked him to leave - and yes it was stupid masculine pride that screwed it all up I know it's difficult for those who have experience of depression to understand how much it affects everyone around you. I had reached the point where as much as I love dh, for the sake of the dcs and the future dc he could not be my priority to the exclusion of everything else.

Lovebeingamummykissingsanta I haven't found support yet, but I will. And I have been in touch with a very close friend who has been brilliant - I just wish she was closer.

choosyfloosy I can completely relate to "the alien in the house" thing. It's so apt. I'm hoping once meds kick in properly he can get a bit of perspective and work things through rationally.

Right. Here's the update:-

He's still here. We started talking Sunday night. His bag was packed for him to leave on Sunday and I was feeling strong and ready (although at the same time desperately wanting him to prove himself and stay). He broke down and we started really talking about, well, everything. He said he would go, but didn't want to. We talked about how he had been treating me and at first he couldn't understand quite why I was so upset. He said he thought about me all the time, but he couldn't give me one example of how this translated into his behaviour.

I talked him through how he speaks to me and treats me, giving lots of recent examples (sadly, there are lots more). We discussed the situations from his point of view as well as mine. So, for a really mundane example, when he was late for something that was important to me (I was very upset) despite promising to be one time, and I was hurt, rather than apologising he shouted that he wasn't late at all and left me even more upset. He then finally apologised 3 hours later after I had "convinced" him that my hurt was real.

From my point of view he had ignored my wishes, didn't care that I was upset and wasn't sorry for hurting me. From his point of view he hadn't listened to the promise he had made (IYSWIM), he wasn't too late, and was angry with himself for forgetting the promise so denied everything and projected his anger at me. He said it was important not to say sorry unless you really are, so he waited until he was sorry to say it. For him the issue was resolved, for me it was not.

It was sad to hear that he gets angry with me whenever I am sad or upset (because he is angry with himself for causing it), but at least now he can deal with that.

Hearing it from his point of view was helpful and we discussed what could have been done instead.

DH suggested that if I'm upset he should go away for half an hour until he isn't angry with me anymore and can be sorry. I asked him to consider that scenario from my point of view and he could see that being left alone was not the perfect solution. It may seem like a really small thing, but dh has been completely unable to see things from my point of view at all. We talked about his feelings and about mine - and he didn't run away. We discussed how him being angry at himself was so much of the problem. He was treating his self-hatred as a sort of penance for all his "terrible actions" (meaning the smallest of mistakes that would be nothing if they were not blown up by him) but rather than punishing himself it was spilling over into hurting me (the person he was punishing himself for hurting ).

Today he has been to the doctor and is now on 40mg. He has finally realised that this is not going to all magically disappear and that he will have to put in an enormous effort (which I will support every step of the way).

I have reached the end of allowing this behaviour and am no longer afraid of asking him to move out if the need arises - but I really hope this is the turning point.

He has been attentive and kind to me for 2 days now. I know that may not seem like much, but he couldn't even do it for half an hour before.

I am optimistic, but realistic. We're going to keep talking. I haven't told him anything new, but he seems to have really heard it.

Sorry about the long and boring recount - I just had to write it out (you're lucky it's not a transcript of our conversation ).

Thank you to everyone who replied. I know there will be more hard bits in the future, but I think we might have a chance afterall.

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Malkuth · 10/12/2008 09:05

So glad that things are taking a positive spin. Really hope things work out. V good news about increased ADs.

Mine is finally seeing a counsellor and hopefully starting ADs in a couple of weeks. Here's to 2009 being both our years-whatever we decide! Sorry about brief message- v clingy sick toddler on lap.

NeedyW · 10/12/2008 10:16

Thanks Malkuth. I hope your DH finally gets the help he needs. Why are men so stupid about getting help?

Hope your LO feels better soon. Here's to 2009!

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Malkuth · 10/12/2008 10:56

Why indeed?! Trouble is sometimes I can't tell if the behaviour is due to the illness or the penis! Onwards and upwards!

NeedyW · 15/12/2008 06:59

He's gone.

I'm devastated.

He couldn't even do it a week, it was all just more words

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inthemistsoftime · 15/12/2008 07:51

needyw I am so sorry

my h behaved in exactly the same way, hurting me and getting angry with me as he is also depressed but refuses to treat it.

we went through months of him"trying" but in the end I did the same as you gave him an ultimatum and he just left about a month ago.

i was devastated for me and the dcs and poured my heart out on here, mn was/is so supportive, many people told me that the hurt does fade over time and I was convinced that it could never get better.

Well here I am one month down the line and although I still get v v sad and still love him, I am coping, I now feel a sense of relief not living with someone with such a negative attitude to everything in life, the whole atmosphere of the house has changed and I like it, me and the dcs are building our own life together.

The most important thing now is to look after yourself and dc, can you talk to someone in RL a HV or midwife?

Look after yourself and keep posting, it really does help.

I will be moving to London in the New Year, are you in the vicinity?

NeedyW · 15/12/2008 08:00

Hello inthemistsoftime. Sadly not. I'm up North.

Thank you for replying. I don't want this to be the end. I want him to snap out of it. He says he loves me more than the world, I just want that love to be stronger than the illness.

He's like a different man from the one who convinced me to let him stay last week. That was like my dh had come home. It lasted 4 days. Funnily enough it was after the long night on Thursday, when we talked through his feelings for hours and I comforted him and held him and told him none of this was his fault, that was the point that he stopped trying. That the anger returned. That he just stopped engaging with me at all.

He asked me to give him another chance, but he knew this was his last chance and I can't back down now, or I always will.

Last week I was strong and ready. This week I feel I've been pushed into it at my weakest. I gave so much of myself to him this week. I didn't hold anything of me back. I'm so tired. So exhausted. So broken.

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inthemistsoftime · 15/12/2008 08:12

Stay strong, you are gong to need it to get through this what ever happens.

NeedyW · 15/12/2008 08:18

I feel anything but strong.

I don't know if I've got any strength left. I dared to hope. I'm so stupid.

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inthemistsoftime · 15/12/2008 08:23

No you are not stupid, you were just hopeful that you could sort things out.

I try not to generalise about men but the more I read on here the more I understand the nature of the beast!

NeedyW · 15/12/2008 08:57

The way he left, without talking anything through, while I was crying, without a tear from him, the more I think about it the more I know it was all designed to hurt. Whether to punish me for making him do this or to make this harder for me so that I give in, I don't know. But that wasn't the actions of my dh. That's not what he would have done. I want my best friend back

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GooseyLoosey · 15/12/2008 09:05

I wish I had help or advice to offer, but I don't. However, it does sound like you are doing the right thing for both of you. Are you going to stay in close contact to ensure that you do at least have a chance to work things through?

Is he still taking the higher does of ADs? If so, as you know, it may take a while for them to help.

NeedyW · 15/12/2008 09:10

Goosey as far as I know he's taking them, but who knows.

I don't feel like this is right. I actually cried over spilt milk this morning. Which would be funny if everything wasn't so sad.

I initially said we shouldn't talk for a few days to allow us both time to think. But that was last week, when we still had time to talk before he went. And now he's gone and we haven't discussed anything. He just sat there and said nothing while I cried.

I've just emailed him. I'm so weak and pathetic.

Someone slap me.

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