My relationship with my mother is disasterous

[RegularPostDifferenceName]

Ok, so this is more letting off steam than anything else

My mother is a selfish, judgmental, condecensending, needy, self-absorbed, self-important, manipulative and patronizing person who believes that the whole world revolves only around her and that she is the Mother Therese re-incarnate and that everyone should worship her and think that she is so wonderful

I am so disappointed and yes, probably angry, that I do not have a typical mother/daughter relationship (you know, where I can ask advice, share ideas, get support without judgment, have a laugh, do nice things for her, have lunch together, etc etc).

I hate myself for not being more "loving" towards her, but in reality, I think she was and is a bad parent and I do not want to emulate in any way her parenting style with my children - moreover, I don't want her anywhere near my children for fear that she will treat them how she treated me growing up. I know I could do with some therapy / counselling to talk through it all but to be honest, I am a bit afraid of waking the tiger and facing all my anger - sometimes easier to let it all rest - but then, I don't want to repeat her mistakes with me with my own children

I don't say any of this to her - I just smile and go through the motions - but inside, I want to scream and never see her again

She is staying with us at the moment, and so I relive it all every day - the critisms, the conditional love, the demands, the tantrums, the sulking if she doesn't get her own way, the judgment of my children (calling them naughty to their faces)

There is no point saying anything - I've tried it before and all I get is sulking and then she brings it up for the next 3 years - it doesn't achieve anything so I keep my mouth shout

But I am fuming on the inside. How completely disfunctional. I could go on. I could give very specific examples. But what's the point.

I wish I could think that I was being irrational, but my brothers and their respective wives can't stand her (all the same reasons) and my best friend who is the most logical, balanced and caring woman in the world thinks my mother is a completely manipulative and sad woman

gosh, didn't realise it was so long, sorry

She sounds like my mum.

really? how do you cope? how do you make sure you don't turn out the same?

No, it's my mum, not yours.

Hey maybe we're all secret love children.

RPDN you are not alone

Oh regularpost, my mum is the same, but Ive only just realised it and put my foot down

up until today we hadnt spoken in 5 weeks, and my life was infinately less stressful. We have now spoken briefly but I cant go back to that fake mother/daughter relationship she had created (as long as everything was on her terms and she had endless support)

I think the best advice is to keep your distance if you can, it seems to be working for me, although I do have moments of guilt where I know she will be complaining about me to someone and it will all be my fault

You say you want to scream and never see her again. What would happen if you never saw her again? This is a serious question. If she makes you feel this bad and you don't want her around your children, why do you allow her in your life still? Are you getting anything positive out of this relationship?

I just argue with her constantly and then fume to dh about her behaviour. She has histrionic fits and says things like:'I wish I was dead' usually sparked by something really trivial. She walked out of dd's christening because she thought people weren't paying her enough attention [fangry}.

I have just had to accept her for who she is, she will not change. I have had to lower my expectations.

that should have been

franke - very good questions

i feel that i should see her because

1. she is my mother and i feel a responisiblity towards her
2. she is my childrens grandmother and i feel that they should have the opportunity to know her (although given recent damaging interactions i could change my mind on that one)
3. i have legal responisiblities for my parents should anything untoward happen (my brothers don't care, and i feel someone should care and therefore it is left to me)
4. i couldn't cope with the feelings of guilt

anything positive? no, i don't get anything positive out of the relationship, but she is my mother and i feel that I have a responsibility towards her regardless

OMG dontcallmemehon, does she also say 'you'll be sorry when Im dead' or 'you'll miss me when Im gone' which i get a lot.

My mother also thinks that her life is worse than anyone elses regardless (when my uncle died she said my auntie had it better than her because he'd gone quickly, she didnt have to take care of him for years and had lots of support )

dontcallmehon - yes, i think that's the key - lower expectations (i think i did that a while back) and accept that is who she is

still makes me sad though

i feel like i am responisible for three todlers instead of two

kitty - thank you - this helps a lot

mosschops - yes that's what my mother does too - everything is defined in terms of herself - when my aunt's husband died (that's my mum's sister), my mother was the one who was inconsolable with grief because "they were so close" - makes me sick

do you every get scared you will turn out like her?

it worries me - i don't want to be anything like my mother (i can not think of ONE thing I would like to emulate )

OP - You could be describing my mother too. She was generally like that through my childhood, with some really awful behaviour on top (including threating to cut her wrists with a carving knife in front of me when I was 16).

I did cut all ties with her around 8 years ago, when I was 20. As a result the rest of my family have ostracised me as we disagree about whether her behaviour is excusable because she is mentally ill (bi-polar)

However, despite feeling like you - angry that I don't have a proper mother (particularly difficult as my first child is only 10 months old) and even angrier at my family for pushing her in my face every time I tried to keep in touch with them - I do not regret cutting contact - I really dont. I realised my reactions to her and the atmosphere she created were making me a bad person to be around. I'm much happier in myself without her.

Anyway, if its really that bad then I would ask yourself whether its worth it. If it isn't worth it - and if it isn't worth the influence she may well have over your children, you know what you need to do.

thank you CMM - i admire you but i don't think i could cut contact - i would feel soooooooo guilty and i don't think i would be able to get over that - i guess her manipulation of me is, indeed, complete

This is so sad - I feel sad for you rpdn. The fact that you have legal responsibility makes this more complicated than just walking away - I see that. But from your posts you sound so ground down by it all. Is there a way you can really limit contact without breaking off completely?

regpost - i do worry about turning out like her, when I am being super annoying dh will say 'yeah ok X (mothers name)' just to piss me off as he knows its what I fear the most.

I have found life easier since just keeping to the odd txt now and again. Im far less stressed, not arguing with her all the time. Could you do that with your mum or is she too close to keep her at arms length

RPDN - It was a case of survival for me. I don't doubt that the nervous breakdown I had at 15 was due to her - and I know it wasn't coincidence that my moods and depressive episodes improved when I went to uni (although my boyfriend at the time, now husband did have something to do with that!)

As for turning out like her, I don't think so. She has a poem on her website basically saying "like mother like daughter" but I know that I have already done so much that she never did (some of which I know she wanted for herself but could never see through), and I know I've broken the cycle that was already moulding me in her image. Do you know what made your mother what she is? If you can see it, I strongly believe that you can stop that cycle and be what you want to be instead.

For me, breaking contact was liberating. It sounds like you don't feel like that's the right thing for you, but is there any way you can take back some of the control of your interactions - particularly regarding your children? I know it can be horribly difficult not to respond to the manipulations, but maybe you can see one little thing at a time that you're not going to give in to or respond to?

I do feel your pain, and I hope you can work something out to help you with this.

CMM - what a thoughtful post - thank you.

Interestly, my mother says all the time "we are so alike" and "you understand me better than anyone" and "we are best friends" and inside I am saying "NO WE ARE NOT'

as for what made her what she is? great question - i am going to think about that and will come back onto this post later - can you check back? i would really appreciate the opportunity to bounce it off you and other mnets when i thought about it

Ever heard of Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

Sounds like yr mother has it.

Look up things about it on the web. A narcissistic parent is very damaging. You will be ok. Once you see the red flags you will be able to start cutting off from her and stop feeling so guilty too. She is a grown woman responsible for her own emotions. You are not responsible for her or her problems.

Get another sibling to be the one with legal responsibilities or appoint a solicitor and remove yourself from her equation.

Good luck.

PS Remember - NPDers. They are a burden, a bain and they know how to subtly torture. Never underestimate her in that respect: she knows exactly what she is doing.

www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/

Regularpostdifferentname

I hope you take heed of Mincepiesforever post.
The above is one of many good websites on NPD - I suggest you read it.

You have my heartfelt sympathies. Working with a narcissist is bad enough (have worked with such people and have a NPD BIL and MIL), having a Mother as one is completely and utterly awful not just to say heartbreaking for the child now adult. You will need to completely break away from her ultimately. There are some good books on Amazon about NPD, I would have a look there as well.

You may want to look at the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these relationships pages as well as many of the women on there have narcissistic parents.

wow have never heard of this, but looking at a few sites I am literally shocked that this is what Ive put up with for 33 years and that its not normal
Apart from the projecting of their own desires onto us, my mother fits most of it.

Am still in shock, cannot read any more at the moment.

Also feel quite good that although I am far from the perfect parent, I dont seem to be repeating any of these in my parenting

Chairmummiaow- you mother sounds so like mine... and our lives eerily similar.

We have no contact- I just cannot do it anymore.
The longer I am a parent, the more I realise what a truly crap and unhappy childhood I had. I will not replicate that for my children.

RPDN- I look at it that they are my DC, they are not her GC- there is no automatic right to a relationship there. DD has a very close relationship with MIL- who is extremely caring and they adore each other.

EachPeach - you're so right. Just because they are our parents, doesn't mean that have a right to a chance to manipulate our children. I'm sad that my brother has reinstated contact, and lets his children (when he visits, he's currently getting divorced) see them. It breaks my heart to see my youngest niece coming home talking about "nana". I worry what she'll start whispering in her ear - its sad but her mum can't do anything to stop them. At least the eldest knows that she can't be trusted, but I still worry.

I do feel the lack at Xmas - it used to be a very special time, in between the fights and the troubles. Its only recently that I've started enjoying it for what it is and not trying to recreate what the good years were like when I was a child. Sad really.

RPDN - how are you doing?

mincepies - i had not heard of NPD but have now looked at the info on the web and i am shocked by how it seems to exactly describe my mother - text book case - but also some of the symptoms of the Histrionic Personality Disorder describes her pretty well too

attilla - thank you for the link, I am going to read it in my lunch hour - i will look at the Stately Homes thread - i've seen it before, but never clicked on it

eachpeach and chairmummiaow - you are right, they are MY DC - moreover, I think I have a DUTY to protect them from her

thank you all - i shall read and am going to think about what CMM said about "what made her the way she is" and perhaps if i understand that, i can stop the cycle

when i've had some thinking and reading time, i'll come back on and post

do you think it is worthwhile getting counselling to 1) help me to cope with her and 2) stop me turning into her?