Screwed everything up and need to post to get some clarity - any advice appreciated.

[Ruined]

Sorry this is long.

I've been married to DH for 5.6 yrs and we have 3 DCs who are 4.6, 3.6 and 0.6. DH is a lovely, talented man but he has a problem controlling his temper. Over the last 5 years he has done several things - incidents that immediately spring to mind are

Smashing up most of the downstairs of the house because he couldn't find his car keys one morning
Screaming / shouting directly into the DCs and (to a lesser extent) my face many times over the years
Kicking throwing objects because he is in a huff (although often we don't know why)
Smashing up the inside of the car because the dc/s wouldn't stop crying/screaming/whinging etc - many times.
Swearing badly at the DCs with an agressive tone - many times
Shaking and droppng babyDC onto a sofa at 7wo because he wouldn't sit still .

He can go for several weeks or maybe months without acting like this at all but I never leave him alone with the DCs as I do not consider it safe to do so (huge strain on me). When he is not like this he is a kind, loving and caring father and DH. Yes I realise that is a strange thing to say.

He has recently improved but I realised I could not trust him and asked for a trial separation to which he reluctantly agreed then did nothing to make it happen (i.e finding somewhere to move to etc). He has been living in the family home as he has nowhere else to go, it has been decided that the DCs and I should move out (very sad for DCs ) and I have been trying to sort this out.

For months I have been chatting to a man who I considered my friend, I later realised he wanted more. I discouraged him but after DH and I decided to split I gave this man my mobile number. I have been meeting up with him from time to time and have fallen for him (and him for me). Last weekend DH found a text from this man on my mobile and has demanded I stop seeing him or DH and I will divorce under grounds of adultery immediately.

I don't want this to happen, I would like to spent time away from DH, I find it very stressful living with him and it has a big effect on the DCs as I am far more grumpy with them than I would otherwise like to be (no excuse though). I would like DH to get his temper sorted and maybe one day I will be able trust him again and live together as a family once more. DH says we either stick together from now on (i.e as a couple) or we divorce because of this other man. I can see his point, he doesn't want me back 'used' - his phrase not mine. I know what I have done is wrong. It is very out of character for me (I am usually incredibly faithful) but then I am feeling so abandoned - each time I need DH he isn't there for me, even for the slightest things like holding the baby while I call the emergency docs. I have no family or close frineds I can rely on nearby. If anyone feels I am not a monster for meeting up with other man please say so because right now the guilt is making me want to end everything. I really believe my DCs will be better off without me.

Other man is very willing to live with me and the DCs and his DCs too in fact if I move out it looks as though that is what we will have to do (complicated circumstances which I can't explain on here).

What do I do? I love the other man, I love my DH but I cannot live with him and feel safe. If I move out DH says things are over regardless of if I see the other man or not. If I stay here I will just have to shut down permanently I think and pretend everything is OK - DH says he has changed - I don't believe he could have done and I cant trust him anyway. If I go off with the other man I have taken my DCs away from their dad, hurt DH who is my best friend and lost our home. If I stay with DH I will be heartbroken because of the other man who is fantastic with my DCs, kind, gentle and many other things besides.

Please say what you think - this hurts so much nothing anyone else could say would hurt more.

Thanks for reading.

Mamazon - I know . I'm very much a longish term MN reg. We have spoken about this before and I very much appreciate you (and everyone else) taking the time to reply and help. This really is helping.

sorry i dont mean to lecture you. i trynot to come on and scream "kick him out" as i understand that because of my own experiences i am prone to see things from a certain perspective.

But you need to understand that it is impossible to always be the bigger man. He needs to take responsibility for what he has done. yes this issue with teh other man has clouded things slightly but essentialy it is his violance and abusive nature (and dropping a 7wo baby can be seen as nothing BUT abusive) are what has lead you to this situation.

Until he realises this and activly seek's help then he will never change. he may well appease youand attend some anger managment classes but unless he is willing to engage he will have achieved nothing but wasted a few hours and put a smile on your face...allbeit temporarily.

move out.
put this possible relationship with OM on a back burner and spend time with yoru kids and getting used to your own company.

there is some cheesy line that goes "you cannot expect to be loed by another until you can first love yourself"
basicly once you realise your own worth you will make sure that others around you realise it too.
if OM is worthy he will wait until your ready to move forward.

Do not jump froma frying pan to a fire.

The thing is, if you indulge him at all you are not just hurting yourself - you are allowing your children to believe that his behaviour is acceptable, which it isn't.

Nobody is all bad, and of course his positive sides need to be recognised, but imo there have to be lines that do not get crossed, and violence towards a baby has to be the ultimate one. Until he has not just acknowledged that but really taken it on board, and understands just how badly in the hole that puts him, I don't see how you can move forward as a couple.

Of course you can't move on from that and trust him just like that. It would be neglectful of you to do so.

adding to my 'be alone' advise- all visits with your children need to be supervised.

the most worrying thing about this is the aggression towards the children.

i think your decision to remain with him following his physical violence towards your children was extremely flawed... a man who could shake and drop a 7 week old child ON PURPOSE should NEVER be trusted with children again and therefore shouldn't be living with them.

bottom line- this isn't about you and your relationships, this is about the safety of your children. that HAS to come first.

Sorry you have ahd such an awful time with this man. Please leave him NOW - before he really hurts you or your kids. Your kids will be relieved if you do - the situation must be as hellish for them as it is for you.
He will not change.

What Blink said.
Your dc's safety must come first.
The OM is nothing to do with this and don't let him twist the blame on to you.
Even if you move out on your own you can still continue the relationship with the new man and let it take its natural course. Moving in with him at this point would probably be disastrous anyway.

He shook your 7 week old baby and then threw him/her onto the sofa.....

He could have killed your child. Your baby could be dead

Sorry to be blunt but how much more of a wake-up call do you need?

geordieminx is right, dont go back to dh, divorce him on grounds of what he did to your baby(shaken baby syndrom can leave a child brain damaged ,if not dead, sorry dont mean to upset you but keep him away from your kids, hes a danger to them.) as for the om , take things very slow, its so easy to reach for the first man who pays you attention for comfort after an abusive relationship, you must be sure thats not what your doing! good luck, i hope everything works out for you x

cupcakelover, that is very plain-speaking to the point of harshness

but every word is true

my concern is that the OP has not let go of the "old" dh she loves as I assume there were good times at the beginning of the relationship and there are still "good" periods even now. He is not that person in your fantasies.

the tone is that the best she can hope for is they will split for a while, he will "magically" (how??) see the error of his ways, they will get back together and everything will be well

NO, IT WON'T. He will have just worn you down a bit more.

Make plans to split for good. This man seems like a lost cause and I share cupcakes incredulity that you tolerate his abusive behaviour towards your children.

Jeez women like you frighten me. Instead of doing everything you can for your poor little children you are thinking of yourself.

Take them away from the abuse now! I have seen the effects of a baby who was shaken and it is absolutely hideous, you should have that in your mind and that only and get the hell out of there.

Yes clearly I don't care about my poor little children and can only think of myself in all this . I do obviously allow my DH to abuse them - cheers for pointing that out to someone who has clearly stated suicidal tendancies - incredibly observant and well timed.

I am fully aware of the consequences of shaking a baby as are most people.

do you need help in getting "away" from dh? womans aid can help, CAB can advise you on your legal rights, please dont stay because ur married and feel you "have to".an abusive marriage is no marriage, its torture. it doesnt matter if its aimed at you , the kids or both , you simply cannot live like that. i know what its like , make things better- leave asap.

ruined , i understand how hard it is to even THINK straight when in an abusive relationship, of course you care about your children, you wouldnt be asking for advice on what to do if you didnt.the suicidal tendencies will GO AWAY when you leave dh, hes the cause, youre living with a mindgamer,i had just the same with my exh.he cheated: my fault, he drank:my fault,he lifted his hands to me:my fault, he started on the kids -i left, like you i got "close" to a freind, and was told i was a whore and a slut(this is by a man who had an affair with another man for 3 years)6 years later i am happy with dh2 an ex is on his own.(karma?)

oh ruined - you poor thing - I couldn't read your last message and not reply. some harsh words have been said here, and that isn't what you need right now. sounds like you are doing the right thing trying to sort this out. I guess folk just think it needs to be asap if your oh is as bad as he sounds and so maybe resorted to harsh shock tactics.

Please look after yourself too - it must be hell - but do get away from him somehow. He is no good for any of you right now and may never be. Get out/or get him out before something happens that can't be undone.

Try to get him to leave but continue to pay mortgage etc whil working on his anger - I know nothing about anger management treatment and its success but any reasonable man would acknowledge they needed to move out until they had tings under control.

TBH though, if you have never been able to leave him with your kids I would wonder about how you would ever raelly feel able to trust.

Poor you - I hope you get all get through this ok

please keep talking on here and get the help you need

ruined, I am sure you are aware of the potential consequences of shaking a baby

unfortunately, from what you have said, your dh is not

or that particular incident would have shocked him into admitting he has a dangerous problem

and that is the crux of it, until he accepts this, you and your dc are in danger

Very little works on abusive men. Mostly they abuse one partner till she leaves (or until she dies, of course) then move on to a new partner. WHo they wail and slobber all over about what a cunt their XP was, and how 'Now I have you darling I'll never be a nasty violent bully again - just as long as you don't upset me or question anything I do...'

Very very occasionally abuse occurs in a deeply toxic relationship and when that relationship ends, both partners find healthier relationships with other people and do not behave abusively. Also, intensive psychotherapy in a punitive context (ie prison) sometimes brings about a change.

Ruined, it's awful that you are having to live like this, but please accept that it is your PARTNER'S fault. ALL of it. Nothing you do or have done entitled him to physically abuse you or the children, or to smash up your belongings in order to intimidate you. Contact WOmen's aid and get this shitbag out of the house for good.

Oh, an ex of mine used to hit (to the point of bruises) an ex of his. He was a bit of an asshat generally, we didn't stay together in the long run. But he never came even vaguely close to hitting me. We were together 3.5 years. (The partner he used to hit, was the same size as him, and she used to hit him first - not that that makes him hitting her ok, but it does explain it a bit.)

So yeah, I know people can be abusive in one situation but not in another. Afaik, he never hit anyone else. I don't think this is the most common abusive situation, though.

Anger management is fairly thin in this case tbh. It usually takes the form of thinking about "are you angry to the right degree, with the right person, for the right reason, and are you expressing it correctly?" This intervention obv. gives lots of people (usually men) pretty much free rein and distort their thoughts to suit.

Anger IS an emotional response, not cognitive, unless you are instrumental in your use of anger. And anger is rooted in fear, pretty much all of the time. dh here sounds like he is in fear of being see nas to be not managing or coping very well, a fear of not controlling what he thinks he should be able to control, and a fear of you making your own choices. And currently he is probably now thinking he was right to suspect your choices.

btw - that last bit isn't a blame on you obv!! He will be distorting his consideration of responsibility and see you as the cause of this problem. He does sound a very unhappy man, something which started well before you ever met him...

Someone whose judgement I trust said to me the other day that anger is a 'secondary' emotion - a reaction to another emotion we can't deal with. So maybe angry people need to worry about the underneath emotion?

"Anger management doesn't work with abusive men BTW. It just makes them even more self-obsessed and controlling, and teaches them ways to conceal their violence from outsiders while they continue abusing their families"

I would agree with this above comment made by Solidgoldbrass absolutely.

Anger management does not work on people who have been previously violent. Angry men are also controlling ones. You need to read at some point "Why does he do that?" written by Lundy Bancroft preferably when you are all well away from him and thus safe.

What are your children learning from you both?. After all we learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents - what are you both teaching them here?.

This has escalated over time - it is but a small step from hitting walls to hitting people both verbally and physically.

Were you aware as well than on average in the UK every week TWO women are killed at the hands of their partner or ex. Do not become such a statistic.

You may not actually love the other man; you may well go onto see him as an escape route from the violent relationship you are currently enmeshed in.

Angry people need to stop fucking taking it out on other people.

On their partners, on their children, on their loved ones.

Actually, I wouldn't fucking care what was underneath it, but if I had to put a name to it I would choose "weakness" and "inadequacy".

Who wants to invest their life in a weak and inadequate man? There are no excuses, or if there were I wouldn't be interested in them at this point.

Get the fuck out of there (or get him out) whatever way you can.

yes, Attila - our most potent role models are our parents, and the VAST majority of violent men before courts for DV offences were brought up in violence.

Alcohol is a another tool, in order to be a disinhibitor and domething to 'blame' afterwards.

Okay, this looks quite simple to me - maybe I'm being dense.

Shelve the other man - you're not in the right place mentally to form new connections at the moment. Shelve all guilt regarding the other man - it's stopping you from seeing your situation clearly and moving forwards.

Tell your husband you want him out. His behaviour is not acceptable, and he should be around your children. There is no reason why you should leave the marital home: he is the one with explosive anger problems, not you.

Get counselling if you feel suicidal. Encourage him to get some too, but don't beat yourself up if he refuses. You can't change him, and if he can't see he has a problem, you're better off without him. His behaviour sounds AWFUL.

If you're worried about what to tell him, just say that you don't know what will happen, or if you can ever trust him again. It's the truth. But I guarantee if you remove his toxic influence from you and your DC's lives, you will feel stronger and one day soon you will wonder how you ever put up with this shit.
Take care x