Mum leaving everything to my daughter

[themagicdragon]

My mum sent me a letter a few weeks ago, telling me how she was leaving everything 'in trust' (property, money etc) to my daughter. Essentially she will be leap frogging my brother and me. I haven't acknowledged the letter to her.

I'm happy for my daughter - hopefully she'll be set up financially. However, I can't help wondering what my mum is trying to achieve by telling me this now (rather than just putting it in her will and keeping it quiet), and how this will impact on my relationship with my brother (I know about her plans, but am sure that he doesn't, and that she won't tell him).

My brother and I have had a difficult relationship with my mum since childhood (verbal and physical abuse, neglect etc). My brother has always maintained that she plays us off against one another etc.

As she has got older, I suppose I've softened towards her (though we are not particularly affectionate) despite her previous behaviour. I've accompanied her to various hospital and GP appointments for moral support, and tried to sort out her administration problems (she seems to always be late paying things or getting into wrangles). I was going to go round and start cleaning her house every week, as she doesn't seem to be keeping it clean.

However, my husband asked me the other day why I was bothering helping her when she was so clearly cutting me out of her will and making sure I know that she is doing so. His question being: "What does that say about what your mum thinks about you?"

He feels that she is quite evil and manipulative, and that the will issue is an example of this. He also pointed out that she could even be doing this in an attempt to drive a stake between 1. my brother and myself, 2.my daughter and myself, and 3. my daughter and my brother.

What do people think?

Although it is true that it is her money to do with as she likes, I too have a 'toxic' mother (like yours ) and I believe that your mother most likely does not have everyone's best intentions at heart.
Its hard to say what her motivations could be for this. It could range from anything from attention seeking; wanting to be the focus of your and your brother's energy, or a number of other things. TO be honest, if your brother doesn't know about this and you do, then it has already caused a kind of rift between you. That is a definite outcome in all of this, because you were in the know and he wasn't.

My mother has cut me out of my will. I feel like a lead weight has lifted from my shoulders because now I can never be manipulated by money again, and the 'threat' of losing my mothers approval and being cut out is over.
Having said that, my maternal grandmother has told everyone that she is skipping her children and leaving money to her grandchildren. She has a lot of children who all have very different financial situations today and she said that she feels its not fair that some of her granchildren would not benefit at all from her will, while others would disproportionately benefit (only-children, for example).
As I say, it is her choice. TBH I wish she would just spend it all. I wish most people would enjoy their last days with their money.

But your mother definitely sees her money as something that can be wielded around. It is most definitely to do with power. It is kind of a power trip to tell people they will not be receiving any money from you when you die (as if most normal people even think about that or care anyway)

my mother has cut me out of her wil

"And I'm leaving everything to DD in trust." Could mean that the trustees will be the executors of the will?

One strategy is to tell her that you are annoyed that you weren't consulted (getting it off your chest) and then moving on.

Thanks Abbey A, Sakura and ToughDaddy.

I've had quite a few strange days now thinking about this. She rang me yesterday and pretended that she hadn't meant to ring me, but had dialled by number by accident [hmmm] I was fairly distant with her and said she'd need to get on with her phonecall to the person she was intending to ring! She mentioned that she'd tried to ring me at the weekend but hadn't got any answer. Then she rang off, and rang back a few minutes later to tell me that the reason she'd been trying to get hold of me at the weekend was because she was moving her money around (taking money out of accounts and putting it into other accounts because of the £50k limits that the government will guarantee now).

She wanted to know if I needed money (as a LOAN) to put towards buying a house (she'd previously offered this a while back but I eventually decided against it because she kept playing lots of power games: "So if I let you have this money, you will still be......(visiting me/ agreeing with me etc etc)"

I'd previously told her that I couldn't afford to buy a house in the place I'd originally planned to move to (which happens to be not far away from where she lives) and had decided to stay where I was for a while (quite a distance away from her) and perhaps buy there, as it is cheaper.

I read through parts of Toxic Parents in a bookshop at the weekend, and as I was listening to her on the phone, recognised how she was definitely trying to manipulate me with my money. I said quite firmly that I didn't need any money, thanks. She made this big thing about not hearing me, trying to get me to repeat what I'd said (an old trick of hers).

ToughDaddy:"Could mean that the trustees will be the executors of the will?"

Who would be the trustees? Don't understand how this would work/ how trusts work?

Good for you !! Was she suprised/disappointed with your reaction?

Well done-just keep the book in mind next time she phones!

She just kept making it into a big issue and putting it back onto me. She kept repeating that she didn't want to go and open up another account to move money into, and then me come along and say that I did want to borrow the money after all???

I'm not in the same situation but my parents are paying for my son to go to a private school because he didn't get into any local one and as he is really happy there (and they can afford it) have offered to continue all the way through and will write this into their wills. I am a single parent and could never afford this.

But my brothers both have 2 children and I know they are currently fine about this as they know that I desperately wanted my son to go to our local school and that was why my parents are paying for his education (rather than go to the special measures school he was offered). However, I don't know what they would feel in 10 years or so.

I don't know if this has been suggested already, but I think you need ally yourself with your brother while not divulging any so called will 'secrets' that your mother has told you.

Your brother will probably outlive your mother, so you must look to the future and think about your relationship with him.

Can you talk to your brother and say your mother seems to be looking at her will and it might be a good idea to for him to talk to her about it. If your mother tells you brother that she is leaving everything to your dd, then you and your brother can talk again.

I do know it's tax efficient to leave money to grand children, so your mother may be also acting on advice from her solicitor etc.

Also could your mother be offering you this money for a deposit to avoid paying tax on it? People can give away a set lump sum each year from their estate as a 'gift' and so avoid inheritance tax later on. Financial advisers would advise this in some cases IME.

So this could also be the reason for your other's offer of a loan.

People do leave estates in trust for tax purposes but I don't think that tax reasons have anything whatsoever to do with the actions of themagicdragons mother. This is all about power and control on her Mother's part and goes far deeper than just plain ol' forward tax planning (her past actions towards TMD and her brother as children would indicate as much).

Its game playing (she's trying to play TMD off against her brother) and divide and conquer all over again.

TMD - never accept any offers of money from your Mother, it will never be without condition and she will hold that over you for the rest of her days. Infact I would keep all contact with this woman to the bare minimum if you do not as yet feel strong enough to make a complete break.

Thanks AttilaTheMeerkat, TigerMoth and JNMum.

AttilaTheMeerkat
Its interesting that you say about keeping contact with her to a minimum, or cutting her off completely. I tried to do just this. I moved and didn't tell her where I'd moved to. The peace and calm I felt was amazing.

However, she made amazing attempts to find us! She rang and visited just about everyone that I had ever known (including a 90 year old woman who used to be a neighbour of mine!) and made a point of bursting into tears on the phone with all of them (and at the same time asking them to tell her my new address and number!) I was getting old school friends sending me messages about her on Friends Reunited! Her constant message to them was: "Why has she done this to me? What have I done to deserve this? Why is she being like this?"

She then said that she eventually got my details by asking her partner to check various electoral rolls. However, once she'd got the details, she just wasn't interested. It was as if that 'challenge' was over. On the very few occasions that she has visited, she's been rude, indifferent and difficult (very much same old same old).

Tigermoth
I think she is offering me the money:

1. To stir up a problem between my brother, DD and myself.
2. To get me to buy a house near her, as she realises that she will need someone to look after her as she gets older. In her mind, she probably thinks that she will get DD and me (and we wouldn't be able to refuse if her money was stuck in our house)! Whereas, my brother is far stronger and has already said that he will not look after her in her old age, given her behaviour towards him as a child. I think he may have also told her this.
3. Because she is angry that she has to pay full Council Tax and doesn't get certain pension benefits, because she has money in the bank. If she got rid of a lump of it, she may well qualify.

I think you can only feel sorry for your mum because she must be pretty bored, lonely (I hope this doesn't offend) and bitter to behave this way. Unless you could possibly believe she may have done it thinking it is what you would see as a nice gesture or perhaps she's trying to please your daughter to make her feelings of guilt for the way she treated you when you were younger?? You obviously have a loving family and are not bothered about the money/assets just the intent. I'd either ignore it or i'd talk to your brother and put to him that your unsure of the truth in it, the motives behind it, etc. However you may want to reconsider telling your brother if it will put strain on his relationship with your mother and i'm sure your brother wont feel ill towards your daughter over this if it is true as it is clearly no fault of hers. Hope it works out xx

Well, reading your last post about the way she stalked you, I think you should definitely keep your distance.
FFS, if your own daughter made a point not to give you her contact details, would you:

A] Try to figure out why she didn't want and wonder how you could improve your relationship or
B] Stalk her to get the details AT ANY COST, even if it means crying down the phone to friends of hers to get them...?

I was disgusted when I read that she burst into tears on the phone to other people, crying that you wouldn't tell her where you lived. Mine did this. I wanted to get married and wanted to pay for it myself. My mother called everyone I knew, extended family and everyone crying, saying 'why is she doing this to me..?'
Nobody is doing anything to our mothers. They are control freaks.

If I had a difficult relationship with my surviving parent and they said they were leaving everything to my kids to be honest I'd be relieved it wasn't going to the local dogs home or similar. You're a settled adult now, the money will be more useful to a struggling young adult like your daughter. I'd be glad she's keeping it in the family and see it as a positive, not negative gesture. It's her money after all. She could spend it all on sweeties and cruises if she wished.

TMD,

The money that she proposes to leave to your DD is also I think being done as a means of controlling you. This is certainly not a loving kind gestureon her part by any means.

She certainly used many and varied ways to track you down didn't she?. Typically toxic parent behaviour that and disgraceful to boot, it was certainly not done out of any concern for your welfare was it?. This was done out of her innate desire to keep tabs on you and thus control.

Thanks for your replies.

Sakura and AttilaTheMeerkat
I'm glad that other people can see that the tracking me down was fairly 'toxic' behaviour. When people were contacting me about her contacting them, it was with (what seemed like) a sense of puzzlement and surprise that I hadn't told her (my own mother) where I had moved to. "You know she's very upset...."

The old lady had just lost her brother the day before (he'd died), so the idea of my mum ringing up and crying her crocodile tears down the phone at her about not knowing where her daughter had moved to, made me feel slightly sick and very angry.

2rebecca
Yes, you're right, she could spend it on cruises. However, I wouldn't rule out her doing this, once she's stirred up enough trouble between everyone.

Lovemuch
The only time she ever referred to how my childhood had been was about 15 years ago. We were in a shopping centre, and I was at University (and a broke student!). We went into a shop that sold these expensive puffa jackets (that I think were all the thing at the time!) and she suddenly said to me to choose a coat that I wanted and she would pay for it, as I "hadn't had that good a time as a child." I refused. That was it, never mentioned again.

However, she always goes on about how bad HER childhood was, and the behaviour that she'd had to put up with from her mother and other relatives when she was evacuated during the war. Its amazing how she has just blocked out everything about how she has treated her own children.

You say she needs more help around the house - do you think these things are connected? Maybe she thinks by bringing up wills etc you will start being nicer to her so she will leave you something. (judging you by her own standards in the meantime).

She sounds manipulative and I would just completely ignore this letter. I would also think twice about cleaning her house if she treats you so shabbily (don't clean my own ffs, let alone someone her is mean to me). My mum was always the one who did everything for my gps and they treated her the worst. Your mum sounds like the same kind of bully.

This happened in my family, although in a far more complicated way - my mother inherited nothing when my grandmother died, it all went to me and my brother. Although in this case it wasn't my grandmother's doing, it was my great-grandmother who set up the terms of the trust (she was mad and manipulative).

But in my case, this meant that I now have to support my mother (she'd been getting money from the trust which was broken up on my grandmother's death), which isn't always an easy situation.

The reason I tell you this, is that it may be that your mother's not only trying to stir up trouble between you and her, but quite possibly also between you and your daughter as well. It might not be the case, butit's worth considering this now so it doesn't happen.

sorry, only read 2 pages of the thread and seem to be way behind! I think you should remember that despite your mum's appalling behaviour, you have still softened towards her, helped her out etc which says so much about you and the example you are setting for your daughter.

Sorry but I think your mother is an attention seeker, she has been a game player all her life by the sounds of it, and now you are a grown up and she has less influence on the trouble she causes, she has decided to throw her hat back in the ring with this. I would tell my brother, tell him you know it is unreasonable, and that you think she is up to no good and between you have a conversation about the best way to handle it.

A will can always be contested, you and your brother could contest it! She doesn't have to cause you both trouble, you could unite over this and tell her enough is enough, we are not interested we will deal with this after you are gone and there is nothing you can do about it from beyond the grave!

I am sorry you have a mother who wants to hurt you, children deserve better no matter what our age.

Who are the trustees going to be? (Trust won't run itself. Someone needs to be in charge of the money until your DD is of age)

How old is your DD?

Can it be possible that your mum got sound financial/accounting advice that means it is much more advantageous to leave her money in this way?

Cote D'Azur
Thanks for your reply. My mum is one of those people who would never take financial advice (because she'd have to pay for it!). And never listens to advice anyway! She would only have a very vague grasp (if that) of how a trust works. She is totally emotion-driven (but calculating with it): not a rational bone in her body!

Colacubes
You're right, she is an attention seeker. Whenever she goes out in public she consistently 1. claims that she's lost something (so everyone starts looking for the imaginary item); 2. complains about service etc (even when there's nothing wrong). "Oh you haven't got (obscure foreign drink)? Are you sure?" Long silences, sighs and tosses her head.

thegreatescape
Yes, I think she is looking around her, reflecting on her life and wondering where everyone is. Her son (my brother) doesn't really want to help her or sympathise with her, because of the way she treated him as a child. And I've moved quite a distance away from her. She's not that close to her own family either.

I suppose this is what happens when you treat people so badly when you are younger - people don't want to help you when you are older.

I was talking to my own DD the other day about smacking and how people used to do this a few years back. Inevitably, she asked me if my mum used to do this to me and I had to tell her the truth (though I didn't tell her the half of it - only about the smacks). Interestingly, she confronted my mum about this (in true DD style!):
"Why did you hit my mummy? I don't think you're very nice! You mustn't hurt people. That's wrong!"

My mum just denied it with her usual: "I don't remember that!"

She also gives me very odd looks (sort of slightly angry) when she sees me cuddling with DD or putting her needs first. Constantly interrupts when DD is talking (as if she's not important enough to be listened to!).

vonsudenfed
Yes, I think she is hoping to drive a wedge between DD and me (as well as DD and my brother, and my brother and DD). One of the reasons being that she doesn't like the bond that there is between DD and me (as compared to her and my brother and me).