Dads and access to children following divorce

[Gunnerbean]

I'm just trying to get some accurate advice here for my brother in law.

He has been divorced from his wife for a few years now. They have two children (now 7 and 9)who his ex wife has always allowed him to see ever since they first split up. He has been sporadic with his access and his commitment at times (and no one is trying to condone that) but even through this she has never had an issue with letting him see them and they've always been happy to go. He has also always provided for them well financially, and still does.

However, about 18 months ago his ex met a new man on the internet who moved in with her almost immediately. It soon became apparent that he was jealous, untrusting ,controlling and manipulative and the children started calling him "daddy" within a matter of a few weeks and referring to thier real dad by his first name only. The new man didn't work (and when he did it was always from home on internet poker) he also eventually insisted that my BIL's ex wife gave up work too as he couldn't trust her there so she was always at home and she is now never to be seen without her new man at her side. She has also cut all ties with her family and friends. This man also has a daughter of his own who he is apparently not allowed to see - no one seems to know why although we'd all love to know.

Anyway, that sets the scene.

The problem here is that the contact which the children were initally being allowed to have with their natural father (my BIL) after their mum met her new man got less and less and a couple of months ago it stopped completely. My BIL's ex wife sent a letter to his solicitor telling him that the children do not want to see him anymore. It has been made clear to him this is their choice and she is not willing to force them.

He is now reduced to trying to speak to them on the phone by phoning them when they are at their nan's house (his ex mother in law who is trying to facilitate what she can in order for them to keep some sort of contact). The older child will speak to him (but said later to her nan that she may get into trouble if her mum and "dad" find out that she has), the younger child will not speak to him saying he is scared of him (my BIL has never done anything to either child to warrant them feeling scared of him). When asked why he is scared of him or what has happened to make him feel that way he just replies "I don't know".

My BIL desperately wants to re-establish proper access visits with the children again but doesn't know what to do. He's not entitled to legal aid but his ex wife is. He is remarried and has another child now and is worried that if he goes through a long drawn out court battle it could ruin him financially and although he might get access reinstated, his ex could still say at the end of it that she doesn't mind the children seeing him but it's them who don't want to see him so he will be back to square one.

It seems both the ex wife and the children have been totally braiwashed by the new "dad" who seems to be a cross between Father Christmas and God. There have been several odd things that have happened since he has been on the scene, for example, twice their tyres have been slashed and twice the new man has blamed it on the children's father without any proof and has told the children that it was their dad who did it. My BIL hasn't touched their tyres and would enver put the children's safety in jeopardy. The new man sent a threatening text to my BIL who informed the police about it and they went and cautioned the new man.

The children are also encouraged to use the new man's surname (even though they haven't chanaged their name officially) and when the younger child wrote his real dad's name on a painting he did at his nan's his older sister crossed it through and put the new man's surname and said he would be in trouble at home for using his real name.
There has also been talk about them moving abroad to live and when they were still seeing my BIL the children asked him if he would give his permission to let them go which he told them he wouldn't.

This man seems to have waded in and within a few months hijacked my BIL's children and just airbrushed him out of their lives and their mother is complicit in it all.

I'm really sorry for the long ramble but am upset that t he children are too young to understand how they are being manipulated. They adored their new stepmum and now can't see her. They also have a new half brother whose development they are totally missing out on. They are being totally denied a relationship with a whole half of their family.

I firmly believe that no parent has the right to take it upon themselves to deny their child the right to have a relationship with their absent parent unless there is a very compelling reason for it - like it would put their safety in severe danger. I can't believe what this woman is doing.

Has anyone got any ideas on what my BIL can do about this awful situation?

I am so sorry but couldn't let this post go unanswered - haven't got much to add here but would seek proper legal advice - it may not be as costly as your bil fears -hopefully someone more expereinced will be along soon

At 7 and 9 they aren't likely to be considered old enough to decide access arrangements for themselves. He needs to see a family law specialist for advice, contact families need fathers and either go through the courts with a solicitor or representing himself. The name change thing is illegal but fighting it can cost alot of money, although prob not if self representing and is less important than getting contact. If his contact with the kids has been sporadic though is he bothered enough to fight to see his kids?

Dh went through something very similar, except the new man moved in the day dh moved out.

I'd suggest your BIL gets in touch with Families Need Fathers. He can self-represent at Court but they have people, I think they're called Mackenzie Friends, who will support and advise and attend Court with you.

You need a shout out for Yerblurt who is an active member of FNF and will give some really good advice. Maybe post a link to this thread on the step-parents section as I know he and his wife both go there.

We are out the other end of it now, new man is long gone and it's only now that we are all able to talk that we all realise how much damage he'd done. I'm quite sure that without him around dh would never have had to go to Court for the contact order and dsd would never have been put through what she was put through .

Thanks for that Surfermum. I would be prepared to represent my BIL in court if it came to it. We'll definitely take a look at the Families Need Fathers site.

I totally agree about the damage that the other men can do. Their mother might deserve all she's getting - and more - but the children don't deserve this. Their mother is putting her new man and his needs before them.

Surfermum I am pointing Yerblurt to this thread

Oh thanks so much ElenorRigby, I really appreciate that

Is there any way you can find out why the stepfather can't see his own child? If it's because of abuse of some sort, then that would presumably be of enormous help to your BIL. There's a story there, and if it's a legally recorded one....

Hi Qually, unfortunately we aren't able to find out anything about the new man's background. He comes from the other end of the country to us and no one around here knows him or anything about him. We have absolutely no way of finding out either.

Apparently he was never married to the mother of his daughter but I was told by my BIL's ex wife before she cut all ties with family and friends that she does not allow him to see his daughter. She told me (her exact words) "I feel so sorry for him because women have done some terrible things to him". She then went on to tell me that one ex of his had stabbed him and left him with a huge scar on his arm . It seems she didn't think to probe into why this woman might have stabbed him...

We have thought about getting detective agencies involved etc but the costs involved are high and most seem to be involved in tracing missing persons - we don;t need that because we know where he is! It's unlikely that they could turn up much on him and if he's been in prison if his conviction is spent it won't show anywhere.

Believe me, we've been racking our brains about this for months and are at the end of our tethers!!

Hi Gunnerbean. To me it seems very obvious that your BIL's ex has gone and got herself involved with a man who is violent and controlling. From what you've posted on here, she and the children are probably terrified of himand dare not do anything to antagonise him. Unless you've experienced domestic violence, it's impossible to appreciate what it's like living like that. It's easy to say she should not allow him to control her life like that or she should kick him out, but I doubt very much if she is able to see things that clearly, or even if she recognises that she's in an abusive relationship. The best thing that could happen for her, your BIL and their children is if she is able to talk to someone who knows about DV and can talk to her about it. How did you 2 get along before any of this? Is there any chance you can contact her without her new man around and have a brief chat? Initially don't mention DV, just that you'd like to continue to be her friend, and build up from there. You never know, she may be totally isolated and desperate for someone strong to come in and help her.

Gunnerbean, so sorry to read about the problems your BIL is experiencing with contact. I would be very wary about him becoming involved with FNF as although some of them can be very supportive, unfortunately there are others that are only there to cause problems and give them a bad name (remember superman on the crane around 4 years ago and the man on the M25 a few months back?) sadly, people like them can give anyone associated with FNF a bad name. I'm not saying don't get in touch, just be careful who he associates with there.
I appreciate he probably can't afford legal advice but there is no reason why he cannot act in person with regards to an application for a Contact Order (formerly called access). He needs to get the relevant form (C1) from the local County Court (in the area where the children live) and then submit it in duplicate (keeping a copy for himself) there will be a fee payable at the time of issue but not sure what the current fee is. Once the application is issued a copy will be sent to his ex by the Court and you will both need to attend Court for a brief hearing. At that first meeting you would normally have a meeting with the CAFCASS (formerly called court welfare officer) a government appointed official who will investigate the matter and if necessary, write a report for the Court. Even if his ex does has a solicitor, that solicitor will not be allowed to be present during talks with the CAFCASS officer and her new partner would not be allowed to go into the court room although may go with her for moral support but would have to remain in the waiting room. During the initial meeting your BIL and his ex would be encouraged to try to agree contact in the interim and she would have to give good reasons why she is refusing contact. If matters can be agreed then a defined contact order could be drawn up setting out when contact would take place. If not agreed, BIL and his ex would then go before the District Judge (DJ) who would give directions (orders). He would order the CAFCASS officer to file a report which would mean both BIL and ex would be interviewed separately. Given the ages of the children, unlikely they would be interviewed separately although they may be seen when he visits the ex in order to prepare his evidence for his report. All throughout BIL and ex would be encouraged to resolve things amicably. If not, there would then be a further hearing (probably around 4 months later as the CAFCASS report usually takes a minimum of 12 weeks). Your BIL would not be disadvantaged by not having a solicitor although he could have a MacKenzie friend (as set out above) Previously, McKenzie friends were not actually allowed too much involement in a contested hearing but I seem to recall having read something recently about them being granted rights of audience (being allowed to speak in court)will research this and get back to you.
Your BIL's first course of action would be to warn (again!) his ex that he is intending issuing legal proceedings and then if still involved, it seems he will have to follow through with his threat or face not seeing his kids until they are 16! Good luck to him

Does he own his own property. The reason I am asking is that many building insurance policies include free solicitor advice.

mumoversea - you're confusing families need fathers with fathers for justice. FFJ were the group asociated will all those stunts, not FNF

ok creole, if I'm wrong about which group then I apologise. I just remember that one nutter from one of these groups didn't get contact with his daughter (basically because he was a nutter!)and so he took it very personally and started stalking his solicitor, who was a very good friend of mine. He used to turn up at his house and threaten him and also threatened his children. And he wonders why he didn't get contact! Hope FNF are the good guys and are supportive to the OP's BIL. Sorry if I've upset any nice FNF's!
BTW, was anyone stuck in the traffic on the M25 actually sympathetic to the man? I've often wondered that!

Your BIL needs a good divorce lawyer. Support groups all well and good but he needs someone qualified to act for his case quickly and strongly. Did he have a contact order in place?
They may call other man "Daddy" but he is their father and there are no reasons why this other man can dictate his relationship with his children.

have read whole thread now.

OM sounds well fishy.

meant to say, ref children using the other mans surname, the mum could be ordered by the Court to not do this as at the end of the day, their father would need to consent to their surname changing. I know you said they haven't changed it officially, but even so, they shouldn't be encouraged to use a surname other than their own.
Still maintain he doesn't 'need' a family lawyer but obviously it would be preferable. But at the end of the day, if he can't afford it, he can't afford it. Potentially it could cost thousands of pounds to take the matter to court and if he was in person, it would cost a few hundred for court fees. Not everyone can afford legal representation in the current climate but I hope this doesn't put him off.

Well he could still put the wind up them by threatening going to the law evening if he can't actually afford it. Otherwise they will just walk all over him as it sounds like they already are.

If you know which area of the country/ which city the OM comes from, you could contact Social Services in that area and explain your concerns. I am positive that they will listen if they appreciate that you have genuine concerns about the children's welfare. It is unlikely that they will discuss anything with you, but if anything is showing on their data bases from a previous relationship, under child protection, they will contact your SS department. Listen carefully to what they say, sometimes they will be telling you that there is an previous issue even if they can't discuss it. The OM sounds truly vile.

Hi

I'm really sorry to hear about your situation, it's not very nice to see this sort of thing happening to your BIL and I bet you fell quite powerless, however, you are doing a great positive thing by posting on here. Is it possible that he or his partner could post and/or read the advice on here?

Firstly, mumoverseas has given some very very good advice, I do completely disagree with her point re. Families Need Fathers (FNF) as she has obviously got us mixed up with Father 4 Justice (F4J). An easy mistake, but we are very very different organisations! We do NOT wear batman costumes for one! ;)

Disclaimer: I'm a local FNF branch organiser, I chair the local group and with the help of others host monthly meetings to give face-to-face advice and support to parents. FNF is a national charity and has been in existence for over 30 years, we are a gender neutral organisation and at all times our primary concern is the maintenance and promotion of the relationship of children with BOTH parents - both parents matter is our motto. We help out ALL parents, regardless of gender or marital status, 20% of our caseload is helping out mothers and increasingly we are providing support to grandparents. The name is a bit of a historical overhang really, but realistically most dads get a raw deal from the family courts system and this is we are the primary point of call for most separated fathers.

F4J are a protest group, they have actually done a lot of putting the plight of many separated fathers into the public spotlight and drawing attention to the inadequacies of the currently family justice system, but I wouldn't take them TOO seriously. A great many of the dads who have protested on F4J stunts have done so with good reason - for many of these guys they have seen contact orders repeatedly broken, without any sanction from the powers-that-be (how would you feel if you couldn't see your kids just because one parent decided so?), also quite a few have been falsely accused of abuse claims, subsequently found to be false by the courts and still being denied 'contact' by one parent. There is still the issue of DV which I do have some sympathy with, it is a complicated issue and I don't really think this is the thread to discuss this one.

As your BIL was married to the ex, he automatically has something called Parental Responsibility (PR), this means that he has certain responsibilities and 'rights' (I prefer to look at the responsibilities angle really).

In the absence of any court order, your BIL is an equal legal parent to the ex. There are no residence orders in place so one parent does not have any more right to dictate to the other parent what to do.

The issue is of course, muddled slightly by the parenting arrangements for the children. It is always a good idea to have consistent frequent contact with the kids and if your BIL, for whatever reason, hasn't been consistent then the ex could and probably will, use that against him. Your BIL, however, has been consistently paying child maintenance (which is good!) - hopefully he has proof of this (either via a standing order labelled 'child maintenance' or a direct debit, or if paying by cheque getting receipts! never give cash).

Whatever the parenting arrangements, we have to deal with the current situation.

The ex has moved a new fella into her house and by all accounts he seems to be exhibiting some VERY worrying behaviour. The whole situation smacks of control and bullying behaviour. Whatever happens to the ex is her decision, but obviously, its the effect on the children which is your BIL's prime concern.

The ex should be promoting the relationship and promoting contact with your BIL, this is the responsibility of a parent post-separation. The children have a right to have a meaningful relationship with both parents. By unilaterally preventing contact the ex is not acting in the child's best interests (which is mostly served by having a meaningful relationship with their biological dad!). The ex really does not have any legal right to do this, but being in the driving seat in the parenting stakes she realistically does. It is selfish and aggressive behaviour - no doubt under the behest of the new squeeze.

The attempts at getting the children to call him "dad" are very worrying and will no doubt lead to confusion for the children. They have a dad, they have (or used to until recently) a regular routine of seeing their dad and no doubt, the wider paternal family and their siblings. This is not acting with the child's best intersts or welfare in mind.... whatever next? This relationship breaks down and she starts encouraging the children to call the next boyfriend "dad" .. and the next etc etc? It's ridiculous.

The attempts at using the boyfriends surname are VERY worrying too. This is actually illegal and you would be perfectly advised to make an reference to this in any subsequent court action for a Prohibitive Steps Order to prevent the children been know, or act to be known by any other name than what they were born with and is on their birth certificates. The family courts actually take a hugely dim view of children being called or known by a different surname as it provides a very important psychological and biological link to their paternal line and their heritage.

Also is worrying is the reference to moving overseas. It would be worthwhile making an application too on any court action for a Prohibitive Steps Order to prevent the children being removed from jurisdiction. If you have a very real fear of the children being removed then make this application too.

The children at the ages of 7+9 are too young to know their own mind basically. They are not Gillick competent - they do not have the capability of making such major decisions, such as their parenting arrangements with their father, on their own. They are undoubtedly being either pressurised by mum+BF or feeling torn loyalties to please their mum. Neither is healthy for a developing child. I would argue that such pressures or decision a child is making in the long term runs the risk of the children feeling guilty about the decisions they have been pressurised into and the real risk of behavioural problems such as resentment and rebellion in later life...

Onto the prospects for court action. As mumsoverseas has said, court action need not be the financial black hole that it would be if you use solicitors. Most high street lawyers offer very poor value for money and will give an appalling service. You will very quickly find yourself being funnelled down a route they will pressurise you into doing and you will pay thousands. Most sols charge average £150-200 per hour, a simple day at court will cost up to a grand and if any subsequent court actions is prolonged then you will looking into the tens of thousands, just to fund the sols BMW fund.

Most of the initial court procedure is very straightforward - the forms are available from the internet (see the hmcourts website), they are straightforward to fill in. This will save you hundreds. You could also use a solicitor for any later court process if you were not too confident.

The way forward really is to self-represent. I self-represented myself as a Litigant In Person (LIP) when my ex tried to unilaterally change the shared care arrangement for our (then 4 year old) daughter. She refused to go to mediation, made an application to court for sole res, we did the whole CAFCASS thing and a shared residence order was made - the cost? thousands for both her and me and a lot of emotional and physical fallout from the whole process.

As has been said, it would be advisable to have the use of a McKenzie friend who is a lay legal advisor (they are not qualified solicitors but have a lot of knowledge usually from going through the process themselves!). A McK friend will help with letter writing, sometimes statement preparation (depending on their experience) and will also usually attend court with you. A McK friend is there to provide emotional and practical support, by taking notes in court, preparing court papers. McK friends are not allowed to address court (i.e. speak for you - have Rights of Audience) but there has been a recent case heard by Lord Justice Munby on the grants of rights of audience for McK friends. Normally a McK friend would only be granted such rights as an exception. I had a McKenzie friend with me who helped me out immensely. I owe her everything, she was invaluable. I found her via FNF and now I'm on the other side of the table helping others out! I also now help out as a McKenzie friend now, it's very rewarding but emotionally tiring work too.

I recommend your BIL looks up his local branch of FNF (website: www.fnf.org.uk), phone up the branch organiser (their details are on the FNF website) or send them an email and pop along to the local branch meeting. They usually meet every month.

My personal opinion is;

• the BIL goes to see as many local family law solicitors and get a free initial 1/2 hour consultation and gauge their opinion.

• seek out Family Mediation (google it), as the ex is on legal aid, a condition of that will be that she attends mediation. Propose family mediation as an aid to discuss the parenting issues that have arisen. It is better to mediate than litigate as they say! so true! ... and cheaper.

If the ex won't attend mediation then your only real recourse is to make an application to court.

For any application to court under the Children Act (1989) the form you need is a C1 (www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/c1_1205.pdf). The form is quite straightforward to complete and the real trigger is Q13.

• personally I would be applying for;
• A contact order (I believe it is doubtful that BIL will get a Shared Residency Order - but this does depend on the contact level)
• A Prohibitive Steps Order - to prevent the children being known by another name (as the BF has been doing this)
• Prohibitive Steps Order - to prevent the children being removed from jurisdiction (as BIL has a very real fear of the children being removed, the children are being pressurised to request dad to give permission)

The fee for a C1 is £175 (better to pay cash at court!), a completed C1 plus 2 copies will need to be filed at the nearest county court where the children live. A court hearing date (first directions hearing, or dispute resolution hearing) will be listed for 4-6 weeks time...

Can your BIL please contact FNF, but if he wants to contact me, feel free to email me;
[email protected]

keep strong!

Thank you so much Yerblert and Overseasmum too for all your extremely helpful and constructive advice. I can't tell you just how helpful it is. I need to have a long chat with my BIL to plan out a course of action in light of the advice you have given. I will keep you posted.

It's high time that something was done here because this new man has been building up to this steadily ever since he came on the scene a year ago in March just gone. He's been steadily beavering away and now he's managed to totally isolate the whole family. The only real contact the children have with other people is when they go to school, when they go to their nan's every Wednesday after school for a couple of hours and a once a week church after school club (which they don't always go to). The visits to their nan's were stopped for a time when she tried to intervene to address some of the "issues" with the new man but they were evetually reinstated. As far as I'm aware, all children have a right to a meaningful relationship with wider family but this is subject to severe restrictions too.

Their mother, on the other hand, has no contact with anyone. She no longer works (she had to give up in the end because her new man put so much pressure on her to). We spoke to her ex employer who was very concerned about her. She was independent, outgoing and career minded when she first went to work there. Her ex employer described her when she left as being "empty", withdrawn, thin and not the same woman they employed. We're told she didn't even take a handbag to work with her in the end, wore no make up and was dropped off and collected at the door by her new man who also used to arrive to take her home for her lunch break too. She was not concentrating on her work and was making mistakes (very uncharacteristic for her) and one day they had to speak to about it. That was the last time they saw her.

She no longer has any contact with friends or family. She's not even allowed to go out to the hairdressers now and has to have a mobile one to come to the house. It's so bad that for months and months now she hasn't even been going in to the school playground to collect the children from school. At first her and the new man used to go into school together to collect them but now the children have to run out of the school gates to where thier mother is waiting in her parked car (driven of course by her new man, she never drives her own car anymore). On the odd occasion that he needs the car for "work" the children are taken to and collected from school by taxi. The children accept this and tell us they're being taught to "be independent". Their mother doesn't go to parents' evenings either now if it's not possible for her and the new man to go together. She can't go alone and leave him at home to babysit so she simply doesn't bother, instead she writes notes of apology to their teachers it their home/school contact books, which we've seen. It's even sadder when we know that she accompanies her new man to meetings concerning his "work" if the children are elsewhere.

What is so eerie about the whole thing too is that the children love their new "dad" so very much. It's like he's cast some sort of svengali-like spell over them. They absolutely worship him. If ever either one of them has to phone home from their nan's house they'll always sign off by saying to their mum "bye mum love you, you're the best mum in the world" etc (which is totally natural, of course) but they'll always say "is daddy there, can I speak to him" then they'll always have to tell him how much they love him too and that he's the best dad in the world. In fact they almost insist on speaking to him and won't be fobbed off. It all seems so over the top, it makes you wonder what's been said to them to make them feel so strongly about him. It seems so much more over the top than most children would be, even about their natural fathers. I can also tell you that their mother has had other boyfriends in the past who they have been extremely fond of but not to this extent. With these other men on the scene it's also never ever been suggested that they call any of them "dad" or that they should not be allowed to see their natural father. It's never even been remotely an issue before. In fact I'd even say that she's always worn the trousers with other men before this one which is why this situation is such a huge shock to us all.

There is no likelihood that anyone will ever be able to speak to my BIL's ex. She has even told her own mother, when she tried to intervene before, to stay away and that if she ever tried to come to the house she'd call the Police. I'm pretty sure she knows what she's in to with this new man - she's been around the block enough and is not daft. By cutting herself off as she has she doesn't have to put herself in the position where she'll hear anything negative which might force her to examine the sitaution and be forced to admit to herself what it really is.

No one who knows her well can believe that she is in this position. For all intents and purposes she portrays them as a happy loving couple/family; he's the perfect loving, attentive, dependable soul mate that she's always been looking for and he's just the perfect father that the children need. Her and the new man are always hand in hand but those of us that know the situation well know that he might just as well have a lead around her neck. There is nothing loving in that hand holding - it's all about control.

In many ways we're resigned to waiting and hoping that one day she'll wake up to this situation and that she'll take steps to end her relationship with her new man. How long that could take however, is anyone's guess, particularly as having read a lot about domestic violence we know that he's now probably convinced her that she can't survive without him and her self esteem is at rock bottom. They have a totally unhealthy sort of co-dependency, which the children seem to be being manipulated into becoming a part of too - which is why they see him as perfect and god-like.

The younger child, when asked why it is that mummy and daddy go absolutely everywhere together, simply relied, "it's because they love each other". It makes my blood run cold and makes me so angry to think that a 7 year old child is being brought up to think that this is the way relationships should be and that this is how women should be treated. It's all dressed up as "love" and we dont even know the half of what they may be seeing at home.

We do know that, in addition to the rest of it, they're being exposed to internet gambling on a daily basis which is not healthy either but because they're currently on a 2 week holiday at Disneyland, Florida, courtesey of one of "daddy's" wins in an internet poker tournament, they must think it's cool. They tell us he never loses - well of course he wouldn't being the totally perfect being he is.

I'm sorry for waffling on again. What's going on is all so distressing and this is a good place to let it all out. Even if no one reads this I feel a little better for hammering it all out!

I think the mother has been on mumsnet before but probably doesn't come on here now. Although if she does ever read this, it might not necessarily be a bad thing - it might even prompt her to examine what she's gotten herself in to and ponder how it might affect her children in the long term ...

blimey sounds absolutely grim.

what a horrendous sitution, sounds like this new fella is one hell of a control freak, you are right in the co-dependency but the whole relationship stinks of control and dominance.

Your BIL should not wait around really, this becomes a child welfare issue IMHO.

Does your BIL have contact with the school? As he has PR the school have a responsibility to keep him informed of the childrens progress i.e. parents evening invites, school reports etc etc. I would suggest that BIL makes an appointment with the headteacher and introduce himself as a concerned dad, not there to cause trouble or embroil the school in parental disputes but because he is rightly concerned about the childrens education and the impact of the home life. The school is a very powerful ally.

I don't think the ex will respond to attending Mediation - but your BIL should propose it in writing, requesting a response in 2 weeks otherwise he will have no alternative but to make an application to court as time is of the essence.

If/when your BIL makes an application to court on a C1 form he should also request something called "Abridged Service Notice" (put this on the space for Q13), this means that a hearing will be listed quicker than the usual 4-6 weeks. Abridged service is usually made for 1-2 weeks and is only done if there are pressing child welfare issues. I would say that this is one of them, that the children were enjoying consistent frequent contact with dad, but recently mum has unilaterally stopped contact and BIL has serious concerns about the home environment - that mums new partner is being encouraged to be called Dad, to use his surname, that they have been asking to move overseas and their education is suffering. You don't ask you don't get.

Join FNF now and get along to a meeting. He can join FNF on the web or over the phone and there is a very good internet forum which is full of advice from other parents.

Pass our good wishes onto your BIL, if he wants to contact me he's welcome (email: [email protected])

The trouble with sending letters or cards to provide evidence of an attempt at continued contact is that the mother (or rather her partner) may intercept them and then subsequently claim they were never received. You could photocopy whatever is sent and get a certificate of posting. The courts might accept one or two items going astray in the post but not everything. Alternatively, send them to the nan's house, if she can be trusted to ensure the children get them. She could be encouraged to help the children write back - although how long this would last if the children tell mum what they are doing and are ordered to stop.

I do think that social services should be involved. At the very least, if court proceedings are instigated, the CAFCASS officer will have access to the children's home and can assess the situation there.

excellent advice by Yerlurt, I did apologise for my error confusing FNF with rent a mob (fathers4justice) I accept you don't dress up although I'm sure you'd look absolutely fine in lycra!
fabulous advice and all I'd add is that if BIL's ex wants to obtain public funding (legal aid) she would at least have to go to mediation once in order to be elgible. Also, not sure if a prohibited steps order really necessary unless BIL had firm evidence that they were planning to remove the children from the jursidiction but I guess if he is making all the other S8 orders he may as well apply for that one too rather than have to apply for an order for the return of the children just in case she does remove them from the jurisdiction without his consent or without her having first made an application to the Court.

Thanks again for all of this. I can;t tell you how helpful it is. Already you;ve come up with an idea that we've not thought of - that of my BIL corresponding with the children by letter and sending them photos of him, their little brother and step mum.

Their nan would be more than happy to facilitate it and can be totally trusted. She knows their real dad may not have been the most consistent father over the years but she is utterly, appalled and staggered at her daughter's behaviours and actions over the last few months.

It's a 100% certainty that any letters he addressed to them at home would be intercepted. Sadly, there's also a very real possibly that visits to their nan could be stopped if they become aware that their real dad is using her address to contact them at.

The last time the visits to their nan were stopped (as I explained in a previous post)they were only reinstated on the condition that all the conditions that were set out in a letter that was sent by their mother to their nan were adhered to. There were several but two were that no one tried to stop them calling the new man "dad" and that no one "rammed X (their real dad) down their throats" . So we're on a very sticky wicket because we get the distinct impression that the children are "debriefed" so to speak after every visit. Sad, so sad.

As far as their school goes, I have already advised my BIL to make contact with the head to arrange a meeting to discuss things. As far as I'm aware, he's not done this yet. The famous letter (referred to above) did mention that the children were blissfully happy with their "new dad" and that when they meet the children's respective teachers, both commented on how happy and settled they were . As far as I know both chilren do well at school so I'm not totally convinced that the angle on their education suffering would be a fruitful one to pursue. I advised my BIL to make contact with the school just purely to be a thorn in their flesh. The mother will hate that he's done it,a nd will be mortified to think he's raking up any mud on them - as I said before she tries to portray them as a blissfully happy, content and devoted family unit.

I always think their blissful setup is analagous to a nice red shiny apple - looks lovely from the outside but scratch the surface and the maggots come wriggling out.

Thanks again all. Your helpful advice and insight into the formal processes that need to be gone through is absolutely invaluable. And thanks Yerblurt for the offer of my BIL contacting you, it's really appreciated.

I've