I think we're being punished by my parents and don't know how to handle it, advice please! *Long*...

[bohemianbint]

Just to give you a bit of background, have had some issues with my parents since DS1 was born ? will try to be as concise as possible. My parents divorced as badly as it gets when I was very young and I was brought up my my dad and step mum. They both hate my mother and I think that may be at the root of a lot of their behaviour towards me. They also live 2 minutes around the corner, FYI.

On having DS1, my SM arranged for literally scores of people to come round to the house from the minute he was born, and despite begging for some peace this went on for 3 days, and affected all of us very badly. There?ve been a number of incidences since he was born that have driven a wedge between us (them pressuring me to stop breastfeeding, to leave the baby to cry when I didn?t want to and telling me that I was neurotic and must have depression when I didn?t want to, and that I would turn DS into a psychopath by meeting all his needs. Them criticising everything we chose to do, or not do, and constantly overriding us.) We put up with a lot of it because they were so hands on with DS so we could have a break (he was very difficult, maybe due to a very stressful and unsettled start as we weren?t given time and space to adjust?) but when SM told everyone I was pregnant, when I had expressly said it was not to be told to anyone until I was 12 weeks, and then cut DS?s hair (first haircut) without asking me, I had to bring it up. Rather than apologising, SM got really defensive and said they wouldn?t bother doing anything ever again as they ?couldn?t do anything right.?

We swore we?d do things differently with our second child who was born 2 months ago ? just in terms of putting our own family first and drawing some boundaries. So the day I went into labour, DH said to my SM that they were welcome around anytime and that we really wanted their help (they were good last time, bringing us meals round and helping with the baby a lot in the early days) but could we at least have the weekend to ourselves without visitors so that we could rest, adjust and I could get breastfeeding established. Again, SM blew her top and said ?right, well you tell everyone then.?

So what happened is that no one came at all. My parents came maybe twice in the first week (once because DH asked) and didn?t do anything to help whatsoever, which we were a bit surprised at, as as I said last time they were here all the time helping, and we made it clear we wanted them to be involved again this time. And this has carried on since, they?ve barely seen DS2 or expressed much interest in him. We have had absolutely no help whatsoever and I?ve really struggled with 2 very young children and all the while wondering why my parents are being like this.

Things came to a head yesterday when I lost the plot a bit (have been really struggling with no sleep, not being in the best of health and DS1 running me ragged) and had just scored badly on the PND questionnaire that morning. DH, unknown to me, called my SM and asked her to pop round, but when she got here, what I got was a compassionless ?well, what?s the matter ? it?s like this for everyone? speech and a few digs about breastfeeding again.

She phoned later and said my dad had been worried, so I thought he might say something nice, but he just I should let people help me, and my SM made comments about how if my sister offered to help I should take her up on it. I was so fuming as NO ONE has offered to help at all, we've just been constantly told that my parents work and are too busy, and they deserve to enjoy themselves now they?re coming up for retirement. The one time my sister offered to help was the day after DS2 was born to take DS1 out, but the offer was that I had to get the car seat out of my car, put it into the car of her friend?s boyfriend who I hardly know and let him drive, and I had to fit in around numerous other social engagements, and it all got too complicated. Not the hour in the park that I thought she might offer, that would have been really helpful.

Anyway, to cut to the chase, I think they?re not helping to punish us for saying something about some of the things that they?ve done that have been totally out of order.. My dad said last night that if we want help we?ll have to ask for it. I don?t feel able to ask, as they?re literally always too busy and they know we need help, so why can?t they just offer?! I feel like I?m being forced to grovel for scraps of help that I would hope I would give to my own children without a second thought. I?m getting to the point where I think it?s not really worth the aggro and I?d rather see them occasionally on our terms, but then they?re acting like we?re being really funny with them for no reason. It doesn?t seem like we can win and I have no idea how to handle it. This whole horrible scenario has been a source of upset since DS2 was born but there?s no point me broaching it directly as I just get told I?m being ridiculous, my SM gets really snide and defensive and further damage is done.

I?ve written a novel here, haven?t I? Hats off if you got this far, and even more so if you have any advice at all!

I would say, stop expecting/hoping for help and get on with your life without them. There must be other people you can ask, or if not, just do it yourself with your husband. I don't want to sound unsympathetic but they do not sound worth the hassle, you would be better off doing things yourself. Do you have any siblings or friends that could pop in and help you with older child and give you a bit of a break?

You're not going to like my advice I don't think.

I think you should just get on and deal with it to be honest. Many people don't have relatives to help out. Start to build up a circle of like-minded friends (post-natal, toddler / baby groups) and help each other out.

You cannot rely on family and I'm not sure you should.

I think your Parents stepped over the mark with their first grandchild, but you let them. I think they probably are consciously showing you how difficult it can be without their help. I think you need to stop feeling that they owe you exactly the kind of help that you want.

Well you know what you can do this without any family help and you need to develop the ability to do so. Once you are in control and happy again (I hope your PND is under control) you will find it much much easier to ask specifically for that help.

So I'd do that.

What is your relationship like with your mother? Can she help?

Your step mother sounds really controlling and I wouldn't be happy to accept their 'help' when it comes with conditions.

How would life be if you put on a brave face, tried to manage as best you can on your own but just invite them around once a week for a visit? Not to get them to help, just a social thing? That way you're still nurturing the relationship (no matter how troubled) there is no pressure on you to accept things you're not happy with and there is no need for them to feel they're being under valued.

If you get comments then just smile and say you're all happy and muddling through. Like all parents.

Out of interest, does the step mother have children?

Ugh, that sounds like a horrendous situation to be in

My gut feeling from reading all that is that THEY are calling all the shots. From day 1 of your first child's birth and up to now, even though the strategies have been different (smothering, then ignoring).

I think you need to spin that round somehow, put yourself back in control. You are the adult, you are a capable mother.

Forget about them offering support, they've clearly demonstrated that they're not capable of doing that and you're kidding yourself if you think you can force them to change. Find support elsewhere - what about dh's family? Or signing up for HomeStart? Cultivate friendships with people with whom you can offer mutual support without agenda.

Remember, they're not hurting you - they're hurting themselves. THEY'RE destroying the chance of a proper relationship with your sons. THEY'RE missing out. If they want to cut their own noses off to spite their face, let them. Wash your hands of it. You don't NEED the extra stress, just focus on your own little family.

I'm not saying cut them out of your life, but let them do the running. If that means you don't hear from them for months at a time, so be it. Sounds like it'd be much less stressful for you anyway. Give up any ideas that you've done anything wrong, or can change them in any way. This is their issue, their hangups. They have to want to change, you can't do it for them.

Focus on your beautiful little family and find yourself support elsewhere. Then you'll be much stronger and will be able to let this wash over you.

Whilst I have some sympathy with your situtation (your SM organising visitors, telling you how to bring up your baby etc) plenty of people have no or very little help from their families and you have had quite a lot.

I think you rather than your dh should have raised this with your SM and dad tbh much earlier.

Do you think you could arrange a meeting with them to talk things over? (get dh to look after the dc)

Do you have any contact with your mum?

I imagine that your parents feel that they cannot win whatever they do.

With DS1 they piled in and got involved and helped and were effectively told to back off.

With DS2 they've backed off and that isn't what you want either.

I think you need to just get on with it - I managed without any parents around as did loads of other people on here. You just find other ways of coping. It meant that DH and I had no time at all in the first year of our DD's life when we were not 'on duty' or working. But we just got on with it.

You need to see that you are creating your own disappointment here. If you just accept that it is your responsibility and don't expect help then you will not feel let down. In fact you might actually feel quite empowered by proving to your parents that you can manage and you can take responsibility for the life that you have chosen.

I echo the previous posters.

I neither expected nor received help with any of my children. In fact, my last birth was an emergency section after having twins three months prematurely, and even then no-one offered to help.

Accept that you aren't going to get any kind of constructive help from them and move on with your own family.

oops, just seen Twiglett has posted much the same thing as me [slow]

Sod 'em. Get on with your life and only allow them to see the children on your terms. It's only been a couple of months so early days. Stick to your guns and maybe they'll learn the error of their ways and start to realise who the parents are. All sounds quite nasty and manipulative to me and am quite cross on your behalf.
FWIW we have no help with our two and when PIL do visit I grit my teeth and get through it. But they do have the best of intentions / are genuinely nice people. I know we're not the only ones. You need to look at your situation and decide what will help you cope - be it more playgroups, having people round with their kids to chat/play, trips to coffee shops or the local library, whatever .... Good luck!

It is very hard work looking aftrer small children, and you were lucky the first time around to have such a lot of help, but it came at ahigh price; 1. your parents overstepped boundaries and showed little or sensitivities to your needs, ans 2. it has left you feeling that you can't manage on your own.
The absolute best thing that happened to me was my parents, who are trememdously helpful but live 150 miles away, leaving me to it both times when dc were 2 days old. I struggled with basic logistical issues like how to get them to bed, or in the bath at the same time, or how to bf the baby when toddler was wanting cuddles/food/play, but I worked it out on my own, it was hard, but it gave me confidence that I could cope, and I can.
The sort of help they are offering is on their terms, and tbh, you'd be better if you can do without it. Maybe you could think of specific things which they could do, like babysit once in a while, or take a dc to playgroup or the doctors, rather than that general type of hepl where they come over and do lots of useful jobs around the place and which may breed resentment.
Hope it works out for you.

Sorry you've been let down. It's a crap time, with your hormones all over the place, to be trying to work out why people are being a bit shitty.
I would imagine it will blow over if you ignore it fore a while. Do totally neutral things like inviting them to meet you in the park - no request for help, just say hello to your new gc.
Get your head down and get on with it, remember from your experiences with your first child that you will get through the difficult baby stage and you may even have an easier baby this time!
Concentrate on getting on and having a nice time with your new larger family and eventually they'll get over themselves and want to join in.
Crap of them though

I know - I'm at the point where I don't want their help to be honest, I don't expect it and we don't get it. Never really have after the first few weeks after DS and the dust settled. I suppose what I'm wondering is how to handle the situation so that more damage isn't done to the relationship in general, as at the moment I feel pretty resentful towards them and almost like I don't want to have much to do with them.

My mother has offered to help and is actually really good with DS, but if my parents thought she was going to help they'd be even arsier with us, as they can't stand her. But she's the only person who's offering, so we're damned if we do, damned if we don't. I know that we can do it without family, I just never thought we'd have to, that it would come to this. I know no one has the right to expect help, but in a family that prides itself on being so "close knit" and "there for each other", you'd think there'd be a bit! Plus, help aside, shouldn't they want to see their grandkids occasionally?

I sympathise with your situation (your Sm sounds my SD - a PITA), but the reality is that you can't expect people to help out / be there for you on your terms all the time. Sometimes you have to make a tough choice - accept the help on their terms (including having to put up with their shit to a certain degree) - or do without.

Go with your mother's help. The fallout isn't your problem - it's between your mother and them. It's not your job to mediate.

If they want to be petty, then they're the ones who lose out, not you and not the kids.

I agree, she is your mother and you have the right to have a relationship with her if that's what you want.

I say keep your SM and father close with lots of contact but just keep it social, no pressure.

It sounds like you have a better relationship with your mum than your SM and dad.

I'd therefore stick to that one for now.

And unfortunately not all grandparents want to see their grandchildren. It does sound as your SM and dad are punishing you (but I can kind of see why), and it's your dc who are losing out tbh not anyone else.

I kind of disagree about dc losing out - my dad died before my kids were born. They don't feel hard done by. I feel sad that they'll never meet him, but really, they never knew any different and don't miss what they never had.

It's the grandparents that are missing out on a potentially fabulous relationship. It sounds like the dc will get grandparental input from elsewhere, so they really aren't going to lose out.

I just want to echo Twiglett's advice - I had a similar situation to you when GPs went overboard with DD1 but certainly have been left to get on with it with DD2.
My in-laws live down the street and take them for the odd afternoon but never more than that. MIL works full time and raised 4 kids of her own while working night shift as a nurse. She's entitled to her own life now.
Can you organise a regular time when they can take the kids out and spoil them? One afternoon a week? But be warned you will have to bite your tongue and let GP's get on with it, their way.

Life with a new baby and a toddler is very hard at times but life is harder if you add the stress of interferring relatives. I think, in the long run, you will feel better not expecting anything from them. If the help they offer is on their terms but that is stressing you then, quite frankly, it's not help. I think you need to rely more on your partner. My mum lives near me but never made me meals when I had 2 under 2 as dh and myself managed, somehow. I know having my inlaws to help out and overstay their welcome was more stressful than a new baby and I made the decision not to have their "help" when no.2 was born.

Fair enough Rubberduck.

I suppose I was saying that from a personal perpective. My dad died years before I had dc, my mum lives 200 odd miles away and dh's parents live in NZ. I'm more aware than my dc on what they 'might be' missing out on (it's not quite how I'd imagined!)

Says she who had no grandparents except one who we rarely saw!

Oh god, parts of what you wrote brought back memories of how my MIL was, although not as extreme. It seems like grandparents, especially with their first grandchild, can get really overexcited and want to help but they end up acting like the baby is theirs and like they are 'in charge'! I think part of it is that they are scared that they aren't as important any more because they are not the main mother anymore. They want you to think that you can't cope on your own and need their advice and that their way of doing things is correct because they want to feel needed and important and have control. I felt like screaming at my MIL "she is my baby not yours".

When you first give birth I think it is really important to have time and space to bond with your baby and find your own ways of doing things which work for your unique family. These type of grandparents don't want to give you the space! Even if you are getting things wrong at first they should keep quiet and let you find your own way unless you actually ask for advice. Instead they use it as an opportunity to try to take over.

Why does your SM think she can invite people to your house without asking you? For both my births the PILs were there almost immediately after without even asking if we wanted them that soon. They didn't care how I felt, only about their own feelings about being included. MIL used to hold my babies and they cried and cried and I knew if I took them off her they would soon stop but she wouldn't give them to me! She kept 'trying' with them and they got more and more worked up and I felt more and more 'pain' because you really 'feel' your baby's crying and I wanted to be allowed to look after my own baby! She wanted them to bond with her but couldn't see it was more important for them to bond with me. I would take them, they would stop crying and she would be put out about it.

If they had come to help by doing cooking or cleaning for us, without asking me so many questions that I ended up doing more work myself, rather than wanting to help by taking my babies off me all the time which I didn't want, that would have been helpful.

Why does she think she can get your baby's first hair cut done without you! - My MIL also tried to do this to me!!! I realised she was going to try to take her to her hairdresser one weekend when I wasn't around so even though I didn't even feel DD needed a haircut and was resisting because MIL kept nagging and nagging me about it, I quickly took her to my hairdresser before the weekend and left MIL out of it and told her after. She was really pissed off but it served her right! I still feel angry thinking about it now! I really sympathise with you.

I was never the sort of person to stand up for myself but I really had to start putting my foot down about how I was going to do things with MY children and not let her take over and try to do things or make me do things her way which I didn't agree with. Over time she got the message and calmed down a bit about not being the main mum anymore. Things are ok now but I used to get SO angry with her so often.

It sounds harder for you as your SM sounds like she is more extreme and also because you WANT help. I never even wanted the 'help' I felt it was being forced on me. I knew I could do it without her. It seems like your SM is blackmailing you - you either have her help but let her completely take over and control everything or you don't get any help. Don't give her that power over you. Can you get help from other people or find your own ways so that you don't need much help?

The only thing I think you can do is arrange visits with your SM at times that are convenient to you, not for her help, but just for the sake of seeing each other, and then each time she tries to take over and do something you don't want you must be firm and stand up for yourself and say "No, I am going to do it this way, I am his mother". It is very annoying because you really don't need the extra stress of having to do this but if you don't stand up to her she will keep trying to control things.

I hated always being the 'bad' one who looked like I was being argumentative and stroppy when DH never said anything against his mother and the 2 other DILs were always so polite and nice and never said anything that would rock the boat. I felt like the 'black sheep' for a while but I am so glad I did it and she doesn't control things anymore and we have a good relationship now.

Sorry didn't realise this was going to stir me up into this long rant!

Diito twiglett. People don't tend to get as excited about a 2nd baby so what you have described sounds pretty normal.

Thank you so much everyone for replying - there's some really good points here that I need to take on board.

I reiterate though - I'm not just being spoilt and expecting the help, we haven't really had any since DS1 was born at all. We were just expecting things to be the same this time and trying to head any trouble off at the pass beforehand. I've got quite used to fending for myself, it's just really hard at the moment, and I'm really venting here because I didn't want them to know I was struggling, because as some have said, that help comes at a very high price. I just thought that, knowing how hard it can be to have a toddler and a baby (although actually my SM doesn't know - she had a baby when we were at school so it's a different set of problems) that they might want to help, especially as they were so OTT with it all last time.

The thing with my mother is a bit tricky, she didn't bring us up, because she ran off and left us, and we were estranged for 7 years. We got back in touch a year and a half ago, and ironically she's the best grandparent out of all of them when it comes to spending quality time with him; she genuinely loves it and does really good things with him. Unlike my parents who drag him round the shops or ignore him while they're doing DIY or the like.

I will take the help from my mother, as it's the best offer, and right now I do need some help. It's unconditional, and because she wants to, unlike my dad's offer of "well, we'll help you if you grovel but not unless, even though we know you're in bits at the moment." If my parents have a problem with that, that's just tough, but they will try to make me suffer for it.