I think we're being punished by my parents and don't know how to handle it, advice please! *Long*...

[bohemianbint]

Just to give you a bit of background, have had some issues with my parents since DS1 was born ? will try to be as concise as possible. My parents divorced as badly as it gets when I was very young and I was brought up my my dad and step mum. They both hate my mother and I think that may be at the root of a lot of their behaviour towards me. They also live 2 minutes around the corner, FYI.

On having DS1, my SM arranged for literally scores of people to come round to the house from the minute he was born, and despite begging for some peace this went on for 3 days, and affected all of us very badly. There?ve been a number of incidences since he was born that have driven a wedge between us (them pressuring me to stop breastfeeding, to leave the baby to cry when I didn?t want to and telling me that I was neurotic and must have depression when I didn?t want to, and that I would turn DS into a psychopath by meeting all his needs. Them criticising everything we chose to do, or not do, and constantly overriding us.) We put up with a lot of it because they were so hands on with DS so we could have a break (he was very difficult, maybe due to a very stressful and unsettled start as we weren?t given time and space to adjust?) but when SM told everyone I was pregnant, when I had expressly said it was not to be told to anyone until I was 12 weeks, and then cut DS?s hair (first haircut) without asking me, I had to bring it up. Rather than apologising, SM got really defensive and said they wouldn?t bother doing anything ever again as they ?couldn?t do anything right.?

We swore we?d do things differently with our second child who was born 2 months ago ? just in terms of putting our own family first and drawing some boundaries. So the day I went into labour, DH said to my SM that they were welcome around anytime and that we really wanted their help (they were good last time, bringing us meals round and helping with the baby a lot in the early days) but could we at least have the weekend to ourselves without visitors so that we could rest, adjust and I could get breastfeeding established. Again, SM blew her top and said ?right, well you tell everyone then.?

So what happened is that no one came at all. My parents came maybe twice in the first week (once because DH asked) and didn?t do anything to help whatsoever, which we were a bit surprised at, as as I said last time they were here all the time helping, and we made it clear we wanted them to be involved again this time. And this has carried on since, they?ve barely seen DS2 or expressed much interest in him. We have had absolutely no help whatsoever and I?ve really struggled with 2 very young children and all the while wondering why my parents are being like this.

Things came to a head yesterday when I lost the plot a bit (have been really struggling with no sleep, not being in the best of health and DS1 running me ragged) and had just scored badly on the PND questionnaire that morning. DH, unknown to me, called my SM and asked her to pop round, but when she got here, what I got was a compassionless ?well, what?s the matter ? it?s like this for everyone? speech and a few digs about breastfeeding again.

She phoned later and said my dad had been worried, so I thought he might say something nice, but he just I should let people help me, and my SM made comments about how if my sister offered to help I should take her up on it. I was so fuming as NO ONE has offered to help at all, we've just been constantly told that my parents work and are too busy, and they deserve to enjoy themselves now they?re coming up for retirement. The one time my sister offered to help was the day after DS2 was born to take DS1 out, but the offer was that I had to get the car seat out of my car, put it into the car of her friend?s boyfriend who I hardly know and let him drive, and I had to fit in around numerous other social engagements, and it all got too complicated. Not the hour in the park that I thought she might offer, that would have been really helpful.

Anyway, to cut to the chase, I think they?re not helping to punish us for saying something about some of the things that they?ve done that have been totally out of order.. My dad said last night that if we want help we?ll have to ask for it. I don?t feel able to ask, as they?re literally always too busy and they know we need help, so why can?t they just offer?! I feel like I?m being forced to grovel for scraps of help that I would hope I would give to my own children without a second thought. I?m getting to the point where I think it?s not really worth the aggro and I?d rather see them occasionally on our terms, but then they?re acting like we?re being really funny with them for no reason. It doesn?t seem like we can win and I have no idea how to handle it. This whole horrible scenario has been a source of upset since DS2 was born but there?s no point me broaching it directly as I just get told I?m being ridiculous, my SM gets really snide and defensive and further damage is done.

I?ve written a novel here, haven?t I? Hats off if you got this far, and even more so if you have any advice at all!

I agree that you are feeling low and vulnerable right now, and that's going to make everything seem worse. But I also agree with the view that you need to move on from this.
I remember some of your previous posts about the situation with your first baby - your SM was well out of order and caused an awful lot of stress for you.
I think you need to get your head around the idea of 'needing' help from family. If it's causing additional stress then it's not actually helping at all is it?
When you have family living locally, it can throw up all sorts of things which wouldnt be the case of they lived 100 miles away. I think it's swings and roundabouts. My nearest family member was over 100 miles away, which meant that I gave birth, and just got on with it, with the last one I had 3 little ones at home and DH didn't even get the two week paternity leave as it wasn't around then. Which was tough - very demanding- but the upside was that I didn;t have to feel any of the guilt when family are getting too closely involved.
In your case I think you've put up with a whole load of crap which is undermining you and your husband as parents. You are absolutely right - you need to draw up boundaries and then stick to them (that's the hard bit!). I would also try to get more involved with the local community as maybe there will be babysitting groups etc which you can draw on for support.
Your SM may, or may not be punishing you, I don't know. She's obviously going to feel aggrieved, but whether she is childish enough to snub you because of this I dont know.
I guess if she is snubbing you out of spite, at least it confirms that she is being really selfish - this is all about HER, not welcoming your new baby and trying to be helpful - it's about her trying to turn it into her show, so you're better off without I'd say.

As someone who never had an iota of help from anyone (as parents lived hundreds of miles away) I find this idea that people are entitled to help very strange. If you need hep you buy it in/pay for it surely or manage on your own.

I think you've had a baby so are feeling quite emotional and youur father should have made more allowances for that.

It would be best to see them may be once a week on a visit, but no help and the rest of the time spend as a nuclear family. Also (for me anyway) getitng back to full time work when I had a baby was the best way to feel happier.

I know it is hard to see other people getting decent 'help' from family in an appropriate way. Of course it can contribute to PND to not have this. Go with your Mum she might feel it will her way of building bridges but also look to the wider community-as for the old man and step mum - fuck 'em. It's their loss!!

Sorry above message is a bit garbled I am sure you get the gist tho'.

findtheriver - thanks for your post; something in it triggered off a bit of a damascene revelation which I'm still processing.

revjustabout - you make a valid point!

To everyone who is assuming that I think I'm entitled to help - I really want to set that straight! I don't think I'm entitled to anything. I know a lot of people had to raise kids with no help, and I have every respect for that, because my god, it must be/have been rough. But it sounds a bit (dare I say) bitter? Surely no one who has had no help, for whatever reason, can honestly say that they haven't wished at some point that things could be different? Is it really so strange to expect close friends/family to have any regard for you at all?

It's not even about the help, I guess I'm just disappointed that my family don't seem too interested in my children or me. And if that sounds a bit "me me me", well seriously, how many of you are raising children just to the age of 18, at which point you intend to say "right, piss off and don't expect any help from me, if you make your bed lie in it"?

I know life isn't perfect but I don't believe raising children was ever meant to be a one person job - only a generation or two ago, people had extended family, neighbours and friends who would help out, and going further back whole villages/tribes would help out. It seems singular to our society to isolate parents and make them fend for themselves in a way which just wasn't as common until relatively recently.

I know I have to move on, but it is hard; a few years ago we felt we were in the middle of a supportive family who were all there for each other, and now, for whatever reason, we have to accept that this is gone. (I'm sure my grandparents dying 2 years ago has something to do with the disintegration of the family.) Either way, it's quite upsetting.

Thanks everyone for the replies though, it's been more useful that you know - DH and I have been having some really constructive discussions this afternoon which have been really helpful - so thanks for the objective MN point of view!

BB - I would like to say that I don't agree with a lot of the sentiment on here.

Families should always help and support eachother and us all existing as separate entities will destroy society.

I'm not saying this smugly - I have major problems with my father and step mother, but my mum and my brothers help us (and we help them).

Your father and step mother are punishing you at a difficult time and I think they should be ashamed of themselves!

My DCs are 2.7 and 7m - it will get easier for you.

thanks crokky - you've said what I meant but far more concisely.

I think you've explained very clearly in your 20.09 post of last night bohemian. There's a lot of truth in what you say - our family and social structures have changed hugely over the last few generations.

The point I made, I guess, is that where you geographically have no family near enough to help out, then yes, it's tough, but in another way it's easier because you don't have a choice, therefore you just get on with it. And it does avoid the emotional baggage, guilt etc that can come with family stuff.

I sometimes try to project ahead and wonder what sort of grandparents DH and I will be if our children decide to have kids. How much will we want to be involved? Will we live nearby anyway (I'm not assuming our children would necessarily stay in the same area?) Will DH and I still be working? TBH our careers are very important to us. I intend to continue working for another 15 years or so, so it's quite possible I'll be working when (if) the grandchildren start arriving.

It's a very complex issue isn't it! Personally speaking, yes, there were undoubtedly times when my 3 kids were tiny, DH was working away and we had no help at all that I would have LOVED someone to come along and take the kids off my hands for an hour or two. But in retrospect I do think it made dh and I maybe stronger as a family unit that we just had to get on and do things ourselves.

Anyway, BB, I'm glad you and your DH are able to discuss this in a positive way. That's the key thing.

Why do you call your father and stepmother your parents? Your parents are your mother and father. Your stepmother is your stepmother.
Mothers who leave usually principally leave their husband, not the kids. Sadly they get far more stick than men who leave. There's also alot of "did she jump or was she pushed" about 1 parent leaving another as well.
Both sets of parents lived some distance from my first husband and I and we got on fine. I went to NCT groups etc. My mum did stay for a couple of weeks after the birth but she definitely didn't invite a stream of people round. Why would she? It's my house.
Pretend your father and stepmother live 200 miles away like your mum and don't expect so much of them. Maybe concentrate on building a better relationship with your mum so you view her as your parent again.

bohemianbint, i don't really have any other words of advice to add to what has already been said, but your posts are so heartfelt that i wanted to respond and send you support.

I echo about looking after yourself, i had PND for 7 months with ds before i sought medical help and it was hell, so please please do talk to a professional if there is someone you can trust (my GP was fab, but if you don't get support from one, keep trying, its really important to take care of yourself SO THAT you can take care of your little ones).

I also feel that your stepmother is being a selfish, controlling, powerhungry, drama queen. And your dad appears to be quite spineless in following her lead rather than putting you, his child, first. So let them stew in their own vinegar for a while and see if they like it. And yes, do take help from your real mum. If she is loving and caring with your children, that is a wonderful relationship to nurture for everyone's benefit.

I hope you find the strength to follow your good instincts about what is best for you, your husband and children. You have the strength in you, i can tell, you just need to trust yourself that you can do this! You sound very caring and trusting, and i'm sorry you are being hurt by people that are supposed to care for you. But know that in the long run, it is your family of 4 that matters the most, so focus on that and take pride in being a good soul. Karma will get 'em in the end

I think ActingNormal has hit the nail on the head.
TBH it does sound like they are, immaturely, punishing you. A kind of "we'll show her! If she does't want our help over the first weekend, she ain't going to get our help at all..."
You tried to set a boundary that you thought was acceptable after the hellish first time round. They didn't like it. They want you to know it. ITs ALL ABOUT THEM!
I had that kind of "help" the first time round, the "you have to let them cry" kind of help. I got rid of the "help", and became a much happier, chilled parent. Yes, I had to do everything myself and yes, it was physcially draining, but compared to having emotionally take care of other adults when really, as someone who as just given birth recently, if any adult needs their emotional needs looking after its you.

I really want to sympathise too, and agree with Sakura regarding it being really tiring having much less help but much more rewarding and true to yourself.

I disagree with previous posters in that I think it is not unreasonable to expect help without control issues and ridiculous conditions, BUT unfortunately it usually happens that way . I hope you manage to create an alternative support network, but it will take time. For now accept your mother's help because everyone is entitled to a little leg up when they are struggling. It may come back to bite you later when you have to deal with a strop from your dad and SM but just ignore that for now and recover. Also with the PND - it's hard to communicate properly and get the right perspective on it when you know you are a bit sensitive, so keep consulting with your DH to make sure.

The other thing I wanted to say is that it's really hard looking for support in babysitting groups and from friends etc when you are used to having family support - I have felt really isolated at times because I just am not used to operating in this way due to having a lot of local family support the first time, and very little this time. I'm still getting my head around it to be honest! My sister has always lived miles away and so had to do that from the beginning, she's really good at sharing childcare with her friends etc.

Being in this situation really makes you think about what you want to be like as a grandparent doesn't it? I've decided I want to be available as much as possible, not busy working or whatever. I never want my daughters to feel isolated like this. And I totally agree about the business with wanting them to WANT to spend time with their grandkids!! But you can't make them want to so it boils down to swallowing your disappointment really. (Plus I suspect that deep down they do want to, they're just having a childish strop at you in a really cruel and inappropriate way).

Alot of the problems you have mentioned seem to come more from your sm than your father. Does she have children? Maybe she has unresolved issues about this if she doesn't and you have children has brought these back. Also maybe harder as a sm to get the balance right. She has totally overstepped the mark on some occasions but she probably has a different take on things. Do you think she (wrongly) feels she has 'earned' the right to behave like that? If she did her best bringing you up it would be unlikely she is doing these things to hurt you and is most likely frustrated at the current state of things.

I would take your mum's help, by the way. Not just cos its the only help on offer but from your own point of view of having a relationship with her after so long. I really hope things work out for you.

I also find the idea that it is odd of anyone to expect that close family will want to help more than a little strange. Why would immediate family not want to help with small kids as far as they are able.

It sounds as though your mum is offering help without conditions while your dad and stepmum are being quite passive/aggressive about it ("you don't like the help we choose to give, we won't offer it anymore").

I echo those who say do what you need to for your own welfare and that of your family unit. Hope you feel better soon.