Help me with my son please

[girlsnextdoor]

I could post this under teenagers but my son is 22.
I just need to offload here and need some perspective.

My son is about to come home after 4 years at uni. He has a temp job whilst he applies for a grad job, due to start, hopefully, next summer.
Meanwhile, he wants to live at home as it will be cheaper and he can repay some of his debts, including £10K he owes us that we borrowed for him to do his Masters.

all this sounds fine except he has the most foul temper and when he was at home before we never stopped arguing. It got so bad when he was a young teen that we had to get professional help. It was driving a wedge between me and my DH as our relationship has always been rocky.

Last night, DS brought some stuff back from uni- and he was rowing with me within a couple of hours. all over nothing- moving his stuff out of the hall as I wanted to hoover up and he said wait- DH stepped in, to support me, DS went loopy, shouting and hollering that he would do it in a couple of minutes and to leave his stuff alone.

I walked away into another room and he followed me, shouting at me, trying to put his "case" over. I tried to close the door onhim saying I had walked away to avoid talking to him as I was fed up with arguing. DH came to intervene, DS pushed him away, all manner of shouting started, with DS telling DH that I- his mum- was behaving like a fucking retard.

Two hours later he drove back to uni, for a couple of days to finish his work, then he is due to come home again for months. I have said he can't and that he has to rent a flat.

I am almost crying writing this. I love him to bits but I cannot stand this. it makes me ill. I hardly slept last night and for 4 years when he has been away at uni my health has been better than ever,my career has taken off again. When he was at home before, I was often exhausted and just really miserable.

I feel so torn- I do love him, and I know he has a bad temper. I don't know whether we need to give him another chance, say a few weeks to settle in, or carry out what we siad, which is tof ind a flat. he will be going to work with DS as his job is in the same company, so it will be inconvenient for DH if he is living elsewhere as he would have to do a detour to collect him each day, I expect.

I just feel so fed up and he was only home for 3 hours.

I wonder if maybe some sort of family counselling might be in order? There's obviously something big going on here - does your DS end up in big fights over not that much with other people? Do you? Or is this just you two?

am glad your DH is backing you up

he spoke to you in an unforgiveable way (your DS)

i think it would be best if he rented a flat away from you ...

and the fact is at 22, he can make his own way to his job

do you think his anger issues are related to anything like depression or drugs/alcohol

did he have any counselling etc a few years ago and if so, did things improve

he only argues with me. he likes to make that point- ie,. I am unreasonable in his eyes.

A few years back we had counselling as a family but it was short term and the measures they suggested made things worse- he is borderline ADHD and the help we got was useless.

Drugs and booze- no, no more booze than normal students.

My DH does back me up, but he just doesn't always get it right- sometimes he jumps in too fast and makes it worse, sometimes he is too soft and then that is just as bad. Then I end up shouting at him and wanting us to split up as i feel he just doesn't "read" the behaviour well.

I think my son hates me at times because I am the strong one in the family- DH is really a quiet man and I have worn the trousers- DS resents this. I think DS has a lot of stored up anger towards me. I don't for a moment think he would go for counselling now on t, even though I agree that he might need it.

a couple of things you said struck me -

"I don't know whether we need to give him another chance, say a few weeks to settle in, or carry out what we siad, which is tof ind a flat"

cant he find his own flat? why do you have to do it for him?

"so it will be inconvenient for DH if he is living elsewhere as he would have to do a detour to collect him each day, I expect."

he is a grown adult. he can find his own way to his job. expecting his dad to take him to work every day is ridiculous

even WITHOUT the terrible arguments i think him moving back is a bad idea. he needs to move forward with his life (as do you) and him moving back in is a step in the wrong direction

nailpolish

I hear what you are saying- I didn't mean we would find him the flat- I meant he would.

it all comes down to money - he is wanting topay off his debts. His job is a 50 mile a day round trip. This would cost him a lot in petrol and therefore he would have less to pay us back. I have said I don't care- the money can wait and I prefer a peaceful life.

he refers to me as "chucking him out" on the streets. How can I get over this guilt if that is how he looks on it?

he can find another job. 2 jobs. there must be one within a smaller radius
i would do the same as you - tell him the money isnt an issue and he can start to repay it when he gets a grad job
like a student loan

he is lucky to have supportive parents - i was told i had to pay my own way the day i sat my last exam at school aged 17. he will see one day how lucky he is. you are a good mother and dont forget it

why not start by getting some information about local flats - does he have any mates he could share with? could you and dh possibly take out another mortgage and buy a flat? he can pay you rent and get a lodger and youd have the flat as an investment

How did your DS manage then doing 4 years at Uni and with a masters? Was he living in a shared house - how did that work out - guess he didn't call any housemates / tutour group 'f'n retrards'??????

Surely he's an adult now and should behave like one in your home and should aim to live independantly. Maybe returning home for a short preriod is OK whilst sorting out. I give my eldest ds1 a lift to his work now (16) but he's saving up so he can have driving lessons asap.

seems to me, an underlaying issue might well be he doesn't like the fact you're the 'top boss' as it were in the hosue and sees you as someone who shouldn't be - ie his dad should be top boss and you should be the lower one.

another view of it thou is that as he knows you're the strong one and loves him no matter what he does, he feels he can treat you like this - sort of a pushing you away to see how far he can go.

on one hand tbh i'd be slightly concerned on this behaviour about future partners. the following you about etc is streaks of dominance there. then again, forgive me for talking out of turn, I have no experience of ADHD.

how about saying to him you can't stop here, BUT you can come up when you want & have say 2/3 meals together of a night? (comprimise). he's your son yes, but your health must must come first. Does he know how much harm it causes you?

say to him now - the debts - we can wait pay off the tehrs first (am assuming he has a few) and you can start paying us when you ahve a grad job. There is a sligh prob however his own place = possibly you needing to help him out further with his rent/bills etc.

'he refers to me as "chucking him out" on the streets. How can I get over this guilt if that is how he looks on it? '

I'm sorry to say, and i'm only 26, so forgive me for saying this & being harsh but he needs to grow up really - he's banking on you feeling guilty to let him stay and treat you how he likes.

not sure i've really helped prob not, but he seems to have a distinct lack of respect for both you and your home.

spandex- for one so young you are very wise! you hit the nail on the head with lots of that.

he is very nice to other people. he has shared several houses at uni and likes to make the point that he gets on with everyone- except me.

I agree that he either feels I love him unconditionally and therefore he can treat me like shit if he feels like it- or he doesn't care at all. I also agree that he doesn't like me being top dog in the house- and I don't either- that is why I have almost split from DH, who is very quiet, stable, but not very dominant. I want a more dominant partner. I don't like to be the one who always makes the decisions and tells the kids what to do!

my son resents this and it creates bad feeling all round. he has a good relationship with DH and I feel left out.

I honestly feel like leaving them all, but having only worked p/t for years - due to the rows with DS which left me too exhausted to do anything else- I have a low income and a nice lifestyle supported by high- earning DH. God what a mess!

"so it will be inconvenient for DH if he is living elsewhere as he would have to do a detour to collect him each day, I expect."

he is a grown adult. he can find his own way to his job. expecting his dad to take him to work every day is ridiculous

I would agree with Nailpolish's above comment here; please do not enable him in such a manner. He needs to establish his own life separately from yourselves. I speak of someone whose inlaws have enabled one of their sons to the nth degree - enabling helps no-one. Its just made this man treat them with more contempt than ever. Do not make the mistakes that they have.

right ok, from my POV & experience in this. sort of similar sort of not - if it rings true,m then tbh he needs to take to you anc family councilling is the only way forward I think. But, how old was he when you started PT work?

when I was 11, mum left the house & went to uni, I felt totally abandoned, and in a teenagers selfish mentality really resented her. we had all mannor f problems within the household honestly it was awful. I had councilling to reconcile the feelings I had and talked to her about them - the feelings of abandonment, etc. as I say it's selfish - totally, but as a teenager you are to a degree.

it's quite possible your son hasn't learnt to fully deal with his emotions from when you went to work? I don't know might be the wrong tree might be the right tree but only he knows.

as other posters have said - one day he'll look back and be so grateful to have had such loving and supportive parents, but until he matures somewhat in his attitude towards you he won't see it, all he'll see is a mother who in effect he can't control.

hi spandex- no, I don't think it is like that- the opposite in fact.

I went out to work when DS was young, but I was in teaching and worked only when he was at school. I worked only very part time as I was too exhausted with him to take on more- I partly resent him for that.

I forgot to mention- that when he came back yesterday I wanted to go for a walk having spent the day driving 250 miles- he wanted to tag along. Great- it was nice, but within hours we had this horrible experience described above. I feel like I have been used as a punch bag each time and I cannot cope.

He does not realise how much it upsets me as I always appear strong. It is as if he can say what he likes to me and I will always be there.

i am so sad- I never ever thought I would have a son who speaks to me like that.

hmm maybe it's the other extream then? likes the security of you beign close - which comes back to the you being strong and him pushing you.

so what's the answer spandex?

lol - i'm still learning! let me know when you have it - cos in 20 years i'll prob be asking you

honestly thou, he'll prob not realise how much of a pain he was until he's got kids of his own n is settled - remember how we all were with our mums? i'm sure I didn't appreciate mine till I had DS.

His own flat might be a bit of a luxury. Room in a shared house might be better given his financial position.

He cannot live with you. Your health suffers, your marriage suffers. He is your son not your conscience. There is a limit to how much you should do for him.

If the job is 50 miles away, perhaps the room could be nearer the job so he does not have to pay for transport. Maybe he could come round for dinner and stay the night once in a while.

He is an adult, you are an adult. You no longer need to put his needs (either emotional or physical) before yours.

I don't know if this helps but I can kind of come at it from the other side. I'm only a year older than your son and was a nightmare teen-I used to swear at and hit my mum (and we are a very "nice" middle class family-everyone in it hated me!) and the more guilty I felt about it the more I used to do it. In the end mum had to kick me out for her own health, and I have gone from strength to strength ever since. I have a dreadful temper, and poor dd gets it in the neck sometimes as she is a daydreamer and I find it hard to cope with her pace of life, but since I have had to be on my own I am five, six, seven years ahead of my peers emotionally, whereas I used to behave like a spoilt child.

This sounds really awful but he needs to grow up-he has managed to live "on his own" for four years, he is 22 and highly educated, he will cope. And if he doesn't it is his problem. He is twenty two-yes he wants to pay his debts off, but learning to respect his mother is much more important IMHO-he cannot go through life speaking to you like that-it is disgusting. He is not a child any more-he needs to get on in the real world. Do not feel guilty, please, this is not your fault, but he does need some kind of counselling, and he needs to take responsibility for himself.

Message withdrawn

I have 3 sons that I too adore and I feel there may be other issues that havent been addressed(past events etc) nothing excuses the fact that an adult son chooses to speak to his mum in this way but maybe you need to look at the way you behave and triggers that cause unnecessary problems-this isnt to accomodate your ds moods this is to give you peace of mind that you really have 'tried your best' for example - why did you have to hoover the hall? you knew his stuff was there,you could have mentioned it if it becme clear he was intending leaving it there.

Youd both had a long journey,its a different way of life for you all if he returns to live with you and it will take some getting used to.

I did wonder without being nosey have you suffered with your mental health? could these issues with your son really stem from another trigger?

I hope you dont think im getting at you or justifying his disgusting behaviour because im definitely not i just think that theres a long way to go before you need to think in terms of seperate accomodation.

out of intrest do you have other children? who could ahve a word about his disrespect.

I often re call being told 'don't talk to me like that, i'm your mother not one of your cronies '

Ooh watching this thread with interest, GND. My ds1 is only 8, but I see the same dynamics working here. He is very strong willed, and argues only with me, and speaks in ways which I consider unacceptable. I address this, of course, but it is sooo much easier when dh is there to point out to him how he speaks to me. I too make all the decisions at home, dh backs me up, but not necessarily in the way that I would want - sometimes too harshly, sometimes too weakly.

I think that, ultimately, this is between you and your ds. You need to sit him down in a calm moment and tell him that you love him, but that you cannot and will not be spoken to as you were the other day. He's an adult now and it's time for a fresh start for you both.

Tell him that you think that it would be better if he got his own flat, but that even better would be if you and he could learn to co-exist peacefully and to appreciate each other. Make it clear what you want from him. Then get his input. What would he like to see from you? Write it down and keep the list. If he wants to stay in your home, then there need to be groundrules. If he cannot see ways of dealing with his anger, then maybe anger management classes should be part of the groundrules.

And ideally, you could do all of this with a family counsellor present, who might cast some light on the dynamics of why you react to each other in this way.

HTH

If your son is going to move back into your home, he is going to have to pull his weight. He is now an adult and needs to start taking responsibility for himself. Why should you have an adult in the house who shouts at you and makes you feel terrible?

Does your son behave badly when other people are in the house?

You are not 'chucking him out' on the streets, but you are rejecting his abusive behaviour.

thanks all

chap stick- no, no mental health, but at times I felt I was owed a nervous breakdown! No, I have a chronic health issue that is incurable but made worse with stress. People can't "see it" but it is there!

I suppose I wanted to hoover up as I had come home after being away for only 2 days and the place looked filthy- not really, but a bit grubby. I wanted to hoover up before i got too tired, having just driven 250 miles and then been for a 3 mile walk!

The dynamics of our family are all screwed up. I was the one who asked him to tidy away- and he said after he had eaten ( what he meant was after he had put his food in the oven)- but his dad misunderstood and started having a go and lugging stuff upstairs. However, it was ME who was then the butt of his anger, not his dad.

I have sat down with him before- when this idea of coming home was raised a couple of weeks back, I told him on the phone that i did not think it a good idea. I reminded him how much we argued.

He said it would be ok. I said if not, then he would have to leave. He obviously felt very rejected, as he again referred to being "kicked out", and I sent him an email saying I really did love him, but I could not cope with the behaviour he had shown in the past.

It is as if he doesn't think I have any limits. I really cannot cope with this, and when DH does the wrong things in response, it makes me want to end my marriage too.

I think it sounds like he's trying to bully you and his df by behaving in an aggressive and intimidating manner.

As I'm sure you know, one of the first strategies for addressing the behaviour of 'children' with ADHD is to set strong clear boundaries - do it and don't feel guilty. Don't get involved in arguments, you don't have to, it's your house and he is being unreasonable. He's a man now and can go out to work to pay to rent somewhere like other people.

The loan repayments can wait as this seems a small price to pay for peace. It might also be worth thinking about some family therapy again now that he's finished his education and is living locally again.

Wow, what hurtful behaviour. The stuff he says to you. At 22...

I guess you know it already but whatever the issues are: he is an adult. He has to learn that he cannot indefinitely treat you like this, no matter what's the excuse.

Like spandex I'm also young and have no experience of ADHD but I would not tolerate that behaviour at all. You are his mother for God's sake!!! Lots of parents wouldn't even have lent him the 10k.

He should find a way of his own to get a flat & a job. He's not exactly a small kid. Maybe it would help to all sit together and tell him calmly face to face. If that's not possible then I'd let your DH tell him when to pick up his stuff & have a word with him.

He has to show you respect, you are his mother. Loving also means being strict and not indulging him in his behaviour.