is it possible to have two very full-on careers, dc AND a functioning relationship?

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something i read that the ghastly nicola horlick said, about it being totally possible to have a big job and 70 children or whatever it is she had but maybe not a happy marriage too, set me off. that and a row i had with dh who thinks both of us working in high pressure, long hours jobs isnt sustainable (oddly, it seems to be my job that is the problem, not his). im not necessarily thinking about one of us (well let's face it, me) stopping working, just about whether it will eventually end with me stepping back to a less full on job for a bit.
i realise we are living a rather crazed life at the moment and there is very little slack and that's stressful: whatever time im not working i want to spend on ds, but that leaves us almost no time for ourselves. on the other hand, i love my job.
and please this isnt yet another sahm/wohm argument...it's about the effect of work on a couple, not on children. does anyone have two v full on careers and a sickmakingly happy marriage or is it always going to be a struggle?

I am not sure it can be done,TBH.
I only work one day a week because DH is a doctor and works long hours.
I would go mad if I worked much more.We have 4 children and no domestic help.
I suppose if I worked more I could pay for help,but I don't enjoy my job(nursing) enough to do that!

I think it obviously can be done, IF:

You earn enough to 'buy back' time in other ways, cleaner, gardner, au pauir , nanny etc

You have family and support close by

AND IF you both quite thrive on a busy full schedule and have the stamina to maintain this.

We don't.

In some ways I'd like to work full time but I know I'd hate the limits it put on me, the potential level of exhaution, the need to run my life like a military operation and just the non stopness of it all.

DH is like this too, so I work part time and he works flexibly, both in good jobs but we are definetly not on the 'life for acheivers' program.

So it depends on personality type as well I think.

Bringback, I think we fill your categories 1 and 3 but don't have family close by at all, which is a bit of a bugger. In fact both sets of parents are starting to ail a bit, which is going to be hard going forward.

I've always said that I think it also works for us because the children are resolutely uncomplicated. Sure they each have their own little foibles and there are times when they need extra attention/confidence boosting/encouraging/helping out etc but we don't have to keep in constant dialogue with the school about anything nor do we need to worry about how they are getting on.

I guess time and appropriate priorities would eventually bite you in the arse.

Anchovy, I think 1 or 2 are proabably essential.

I greatly admire poele that are 3 (the stamina personality) but have to accept I'm not and recognise what makes me happy and what would make me unhappy.

( I even have 1 and 2 but still couldn't do it, I have a lazyarse straek!)

I think problems occur when you try to squeeze yourself into a role becayuse you feel you should, that results in frustrated SAHMs and resentful WOHMs.

Undertand youreslf.

To the OP though, of course it can be done there are many poele doing it.

I think you should have said "understand yourself girlfriend".

And then I would have whooped.

LOL

We thought NOT - so I am currently a SAHM after having a very full on career in HR covering the UK...but something has got to give. DH travels with work in another full on role and someone has to be there full time I think with very wee ones. I discussed this rather tearfully with my boss when I resigned from post, because I did really enjoy my job, and she agreed, saying that she couldn't give 100% to her kids because her career came first effectively - I thought this very sad...she said she'd felt guilty for thinking this but it was as it was. Just my thought and each to her own and all that...

I dont know if its sustainable.I do know that we are having to do it just now (2 small DD's, 2 full on jobs both a long commute away, no domestic help, DH at college 3 nights a week and every other weekend)and it is bloody knackering.

We are not the closest we have ever been as a couple right now as all our spare energy and time goes into the DD's..We just dont have time for each other at the mo,not even to argue Am hoping that when it calms down a bit (when DD's are bigger, DH has done with college etc) that we will be able to look back on this time and view it with a sort of pride that we got through it and that will bring us closer together again..Its all cyclical I guess..

Yes, Scoot, I agree that relationships with DH's can get pushed back a bit. We were lucky I think to have been together for quite a long time before we had children, so we have reserves to draw on, so to speak.

I remember when Ds was about 2 days old that DH said - out of the blue - "You know, I almost love DS more than you because he needs me to love him best, and you don't". And although it sounds really odd I did know what he meant. I think you are right about it being cyclical, and these are the years that we have to go through and give a lot of love and support and focus and energy to our children and there will be pride when you come out the other end. I guess the trick is to keep enough going throughout these times so you are not resentful strangers at the end of it.

I had a very big director job when I met DH. Over the years I stepped back a bit to have more time for the DCs and to help him build a business. 10 years later he has just left us and I find that I am now a 40 something unemployed single mother of two looking for a job. I made my choices but if I had known what was coming I think I might have chosen differently and kept my career

Elasta mum, I know a couple of frinds who have given up good careers to contribute to the family only to find that thier DH leaves them 10/15yrs later.

They are left struggling, going back to work in jobs way below the level the could have been in, whilts he has a high paid job which he and his new partener enjoy.

Of courseyou never think this will happen to you, but it's really made me think and would influence the advice I'd give my daughters.

If I had any.

So Bringback, you're saying don't invest in your family with time and energy because there's a chance your husband may leave?
To follow that logic you shouldn't have children, buy a house or even a puppy?
You can give daughters choices without working in a high pressured career, how about being a role model that means your children believe that the right path will make them happy. A happy household is far more important than one chasing the dollar with precious little time for the children.
Teaching a managable work life balance.
I have fingers in pies that keeps me active and three children with another on the way. My children will think I am both dynamic, enterprising and, first and foremost, their Mother. I do not think it has to be the woman but it should be one parent who can attend school meetings, school gates, sports days, etc.

No I don't think I am saying that at all twelevelegs.

I just think there is an inbuilt risk for women when they do give up careers and become reliant on a man's income.

I am certainly not saying they shuoldn' tdo it (I have done it) but I think the risk is a very real one, which results in lots of single mothers financially struggling, and shouldn't be ignored.

Women need to maintain some detachment and realistic possibilities regarding thier finances, and then make their decisions based on that.

Being reliant on some one else will always make you vulnerable, and women financially reliant on thier husbands are vulnerable I'm afraid.

Incidentally twelvelega have you read my other posts on this thread? you will find that I am not the high flying career women you are presuming, out of choice, very much like you sound. I advocate choice for women, informed choice. and agree with eerything you said about a happy balnced life.

Elastamum, I hope you have a very good lawyer. I certainly have a good agreement with my DH (contract) that stipulates what happens if we separate.

"A happy household is far more important than one chasing the dollar with precious little time for the children".

I just don't like the either/or thing here - the implication that you are wither happy or you are working v hard. I have a very happy household . DH and I both work full time in fairly full-on jobs. If you accept the saying the "your children are the barometer of your childcare arrangements" then mine are absolutely fine.

This is veering into a much wider discussion, but one way - no one ever said the only way - of being a good role model to your children is to have a high flying career yourself - I don't buy it that the manageable work/life balance only happens if both parents don't work full time.

I agree, it's a huge risk.

we have a nanny. Academic and barrister. We are splitting up.

I honestly don't know if we would have if we had 'less stressful' jobs. We both need a wife, and actually feel better off if we don't have to deal with eachother's stress and snapping in the little evening time we have. Sadly, when actually alone without constant responsibilities, we seem to get on OK. Who knows.

I find it impossible knowing that I basically have something urgent to do every minute of the day. This time of year is awful what with all the starting school stuff etc. Both of us up ironing name tapes and yelling at eachother cos we couldn't find the swimming trunks etc

So, just wanted to give you my realistic viewpoint there...

Anchovy, happy is whatever is right for you. I was not trying to insinuate that if two people are hard working that this means unhappiness. Maybe this was not clear.
The 'managable' side of work life balance is the happiness, right?
If two people work very hard and feel their children don't need care from parents and are happy for nannies/nurseries etc and there is no negative impact of these arrangements then all is well. (It is difficult to make this point without sounding like I am being sarcastic, but do bear with me!!) If you look accross the table at dinner and see smiling faces and hear engergetic conversation, read a story and kiss your children at bedtime and spend weekends as a family then surely all is well. Not too mention getting enough time to remind yourselves(partners/husband and wife) why you're doing it all!!
For most of us getting the right balance is bloody difficult.

And just think you may be able to spell if you work!!

My XP and I both have very full on careers although since DD I now work 4 days in the office and 1 day from home so is a little easier. We split up when I was on maternity leave and I think a big part of that was because I was on maternity leave.

My job is v.important to me and is (rightly or wrongly) a big part of my identity, whilst off work I felt lost. I relied on DP for my intellectual stimulation (didn't find baby groups provided much of it) and he was my lifeline to the working world as we are in the same industry. It was a lot of pressure, he felt he had no downtime as I was fairly full on when he got in and I felt that my brain was slowly turning to mush.

I am SO much happier now back at work although I do miss DD lots. XP and I are getting on better than ever, even been talking of giving things another try. So I think it is possible, but not easy, to have two full on careers and I think in some situations (mine!) being a SAHP was far more damaging to our relationship.

Good post Twelvelegs