Have I nipped this in the bud?

[budnipper]

A new person started working at the same place as DH about 6-8 weeks ago, a woman who DH described to me as built like a brick shit-house and looks like a man. In the type of work DH does, this didn't surprise me as it's quite a physical job and I think you would need some muscles (or so to speak) to do it.

DH seemed to hit it off with her straight away and from what DH had said about her, she seemed to me to be really nice, just one of the lads.

Quite quickly she began confiding in DH about her relationship with her B/F who is supposedly an alcoholic and not very nice to her. She also started to get DH to do little favours for her like taking her wages around to her mums house (she lives down the road from us) on his way home. I didn't think anything of this except that she must be bloody trusting of someone she's only known for a couple of weeks. DH mentioned a tv series that he really liked so she gave him 3 video box sets to keep of that series.

Earlier on this week DH had a car accident close to work when he was on his way home. He was on a half day as he had an appointment to get to. This woman very kindly lent him her car for the afternoon, telling him he would have to pick her up at the end of her working day and that she might be able to borrow her sisters car for a few days so that he could have hers.

DH's neck was stiff and sore by the time he got home so I drove him to his appointment and then drove him to his work to fetch this woman. DH walked in before me and she was all beaming smiles to him, when I walked in her face just dropped. The look on her face said it all and suddenly everything became clear. All her over the top niceties seemed to have good intentions but I really don't think they were, not judging by the look on her face. This was the first time I had met her and she was far from the ugly man-a-like that DH had described.

Yesterday DH phoned me on his mobile by mistake. I listened at first because I thought it was funny hearing him talking to himself but then I could hear her voice too. I heard him talking to her in the same stupid voice that he talks to me in, and just talking to her in a way that I've never heard before. At one stage she got a bit of dust in her eye (yeah right!) and the concern he had for her was unbelievable. It actually made me feel sick hearing my husband talking to another woman with such a closeness that obviously I thought only he and I had.

When I picked him up and asked him about his day he lied and told me that he had been working all afternoon with one of the other guys.

Not being able to bottle it up I confronted him last night. He says that there is absolutely nothing going on, he doesn't fancy her and didn't realise he was talking to her inappropriately. He says that now he thinks about it, and with other things that have happened at work (like her shifting a cardboard box and saying to him "ooh my box is all damp"), that possibly she fancies him and that he has enjoyed the attention. He has assured me that that is as far as it has gone and it all ends now. From now on she's just a work colleague and will try his hardest to keep it that way (ie only talk to her about work related things).

Should I be worried? Have I done enough to nip this in the bud. I feel like I'm being tortured knowing that my husband is at work with this woman right now.

You can't trust him to never flirt again.

You couldn't trust him to never do that from the day you married him TBH.

I think you are racing out of control here budnipper.

Do you think he was enjoying a flirataion with this women and not being honest about it,

OR

do you think he was on the road to having an affair, or maybe having an affaiar?

One does not equal the other necessarily.

How likely do you think it would have been for this to be an affair? Consider all you know about him and your relationship.

most fliratations do not lead to affairs.

Of course all affairs do start with flirataion though.

But you are lurching fro one to the other, it seems to me, with hysterical 'HE LIED' screaming from some.

let's drop the pretense that married poeple never lie to each other, it's the nature and importance of what you are lieng about that matters.

Not being entirely honest about some flirtation at work could be quite meaningless in the larger scheme of a happy commited marriage, even if it's upsetiing at the time.

I guess I'm the hysterical screamer.

I think lying to your wife and then blaming the lie on her when you get caught out in it is lousy behaviour and needs addressing.

Whether you believe all married people lie to one another or not.

You were the screamer I had in mind I admit skidoodle, but I retract this harsh staement inview of the fact that I agree entirely with your 13.52 post.

Apologies.

I just feared budnipper was racing towards making this an insurmountable issue in her marriage, rather than it more likey being an upsetting experinece with him being a bit of a prat, as poeple sometimes are, and with thier marriage continuing as solid as ever (if it is of course) with maybe thier eyes a bit more opned to the potential dangers out there.

IYSWIM?

I'm coming from the perspctive of having been the prat who likes a bit of flirtation, but who knows completely where my heart and prioties lie.

just thought he might be the same.

It wasn't just flirting it was more than that. It's hard to describe it really. He was talking to her in one of those stupid voices how we speak to one another and would be very embarrassed if anyone heard us (bad enough telling you guys on MN!), he was concerned about her with a gentleness and tenderness that I seldom see from him and some of the conversation I didn't recognise as coming from him (IYSWIM). I'm pissed off cos this woman obviously sees a side of him that I've never seen before.

I see no harm in a bit of flirtation at all but I feel DH crossed the line not by miles but he crossed it none the less.

Budnipper, I truly believe that you are making too much of this (really no offence intended)

I think it is what would be called an office flirtation (if it was in an office) and nothing more.

The fact that he had no qualms about taking you to his workplace when she was there speaks volumes, her face dropping just shattered the daydream she had going in her head.

Thanks lilaclaire, maybe it is as simple as him enjoying the attention. I just can't get over how he did something that was just between myself and him. I'm pissed off because after the way she was when she saw me at his work we both agreed she fancied him so why didn't he discourage her instead of keep on encouraging her?

And if it was just a bit of harmless flirting why did he lie? I gave him no reason to think that I would be upset or cross with him for working with her. It's his job FFS!!

Budnipper, he'd lie about harmless flirting to avoid talkng about it.

It would be quite an extraordinary person to say to their spouse 'yes there's a women at work who is quite attractive and today we enjoyed a bit of flirtatious banter which was fun and we'll probably do it again tomorrow. it makes the day at work a bit more enjoyable.'

Your Dh would be very normal to actually say 'we get on, we just work together but I'm not interested.'

Of course from what you heard you think it was more than flirtatous banter and it's hard for others to judge that.

I can understand hearing that must have been very painful. How has your Dh explained what you heard?

He tried to deny it at first but I then pointed out that I heard it all with my own ears all 40 minutes of it.

He then said that he didn't mean it the way that I heard it!!!!!

He then held his hands up and said he shouldn't have been talking to her in that way in the first place.

I work in a pub so I know more than most about harmless flirting and banter because it's part and parcel of my job and there's no escaping it, but there's no way on earth I would let it go so far as to start talking to that person in the same silly voice as I talk to my husband in, to show a side of myself that my husband knows nothing about or to allow myself to get close to someone else. Flirtings flirting. It's meant to be a bit of harmless fun not something sneaky to lie about.

I wouldn't overeact but I would keep an eye on it.
Having been on the receiving end of an emotional affair where DH got involved with someone who was ' a good friend' and 'one of the lads' (his words). I am only too aware of how these things can escalate.
I don't want to worry you at all.
There was nothing I could put my finger on with the woman DH got involved with, I felt her contact with him crossed the line..late night texts, he mentioned her alot etc. when I confronted him he also used the 'i knew how you would react ' line and also that I was being paranoid.
I confronted him about 3 times over the course of 4 months telling him it was crossing a line and I felt uncomfortable with it and he told me he had dealt with it. It was only when I found emails from him to her declaring how much she meant to him that I finally let rip. I called her up and told her to leave him alone, and threatened to leave him. That's what ended it ultimately.
I think it was an ego boost for him to be honest.
Just keep your eyes open and trust your instincts. She clearly has a thing for your DH, you just don't want him to develop the same feelings.

It was 40 minutes?? Hmmm.

You do have to trust your instinct and experince to know the difference between banter and something more.

The more I read your posts the more it does sound worse than I was hoping.

BUT, as catnap said, put the fear of God in him. threatened to confront her/them at work. tell him what you would do if you discovered he'd not dealt with it properly and ended all non work interaction with her.

It's not enough to be friends with her, if he's overstepped the line he needs to cease all unnecesary contact and demonstrate to her and you that his commitemnt lies entirely with you. He has to send a clear message now.

No I certainly don't want him feeling the same way. Hopefully him seeing me this upset and the fact that he knows I'm on to it will be enough of a deterrant.

He has promised me that he has never given her his mobile number and that he doesn't have hers. I do think he knows he has seriously crossed the line beyond harmless flirting. Hopefully if he really loves me this won't ever happen again.

I will be keeping a seriously close eye on it though. He doesn't work to far away that I could turn up at lunch time to keep him company every now and then. Just to make my presence felt. I just wish he'd never got us into this situation in the first place.

Communion, I love your way of thinking. Me threatening to go to his work and have it out with them both in front of other colleagues will definitely put the fear of God into him.

And there was me earlier being all 'benefit of the doubt'.

Men really hate a scene ime, and the thougt of an emotional bust up at work in fromt of collegaues would make most of them do anything asked of them.

Of course he has to believe you would do it.

budnipper - i think it is a very good idea to 'make your presence felt' as you say.
the fact that they haven't swapped numbers is something.
I was checking DH's phone obsessively at one point and know that they were texting every evening and he was calling her when he went out to the pub etc. There was never any sexual content to the messages, but I felt that amount of contact outside of work was inappropriate and highly suspicious.
At least his contact with her seems to be purely at work.

I think more important than "making your presence felt" is getting your point across.

From what you've said, he hasn't really accepted that what he has been up to with her is unacceptable, or come to any understanding of why it happened.

He still seems to be in lie/blame you/make a big show of being upset at having hurt you mode. That is a pretty familiar triumvirate to anyone who spends much time reading these boards.

When he can look you square in the eye and admit what has gone on without trying lay the blame at your door, or hers; apologise for it wholeheartedly; and promise not to do it again without any sulking or resentment of you, THEN I would say you can trust him again.

I wholeheartedly agree with Skidoodle. He needs to take the responsibility for his actions.

He's getting angry with you because he feels guilty and probably embarassed and is on the defensive.
When i said make your presence felt - i meant with her...so she gets the message that you have a strong loving relationship.
If you stay and calm and try and talk to your DH without losing it, he has no reason to get angry back at you IYSWIM, you might get a bit further with things.

I found with DH that every argument we had about her which ended up with me in tears and us not speaking resulted in him then telling her all about it, which just added fuel to the fire that all was not well at home, even though the only time we argued it was about her!

skidoodle you're absolutely right. Maybe he will have thought it over today. When he's seen her today I hope he realises what he could lose if this fun, flirty, ego boosting behaviour continues.

DH sulks about everything and always tries to make any argument about me not him. If he's man enough for the first time ever to hold his hands up, tell the truth no matter whether he thinks I'll like it or not and doesn't try to blame me for this in some way, then I will know that he truly means it and is truly sorry.

Hmmm see what you mean Cat. Why are women so cunning and sly!!?

Tried to talk to DH last night but he can be a real arsehole at times. He's still getting cross with me. I just don't understand him, he keeps saying he's sorry but he's still getting really arsey about the whole situation. He's saying he is accepting responsibility for his actions yet on the otherhand was blaming her. I guess to some degree she is to blame but it mainly falls on his shoulder as I told him. I pointed out that she doesn't have a wife and kids at home. That if he hadn't encouraged her or not discouraged her as the case may be, that we wouldn't be in this situation.

I've asked him why he felt the need to do this? He says "I don't know". He still maintains that he doesn't what so ever find her attractive but I put it to him that why then would he flirt and let himself get really close to a woman who he has described as being built like a brick shit house and looks like a man if he wasn't attracted to her? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Everything that comes out of his mouth seems like he manages to just make this situation about 100 times worse. So I asked him if in some way he wants to sabotage our relationship. He said no he doesn't. There's just no rhyme or reason for the way he's behaving. One minute he's acting like a man who is genuinly sorry and wants to make up for his mistakes and the next he's making me wonder if he wants to be with me at all.

If he thinks it's all her fault, what is he apologising for?

Sounds to me like he's saying sorry just so you'll stop going on at him and he's angry because he thinks that an apology should automatically make things OK regardless of whether it is truly meant.

So you have two choices as far as I can see:

1. Decide that you caught this early, that you've scared the bejasus out of him and hope he would think twice in a similar situation in the future

1. Decide that this is an issue worth making a big deal over

Both have their merits and which you choose will depend on how good you are at putting a point across, how amenable he is to listening, and how happy your relationship is otherwise.

If you're generally in a good place, I'd probably drop it now. If you feel this is symptomatic of a general malaise there's more point in pursuing it.

If you are good at making a clear argument and sticking to your guns in terms of setting boundaries for what kind of behaviour you will accept from him then this will cause less upset that if you tend to shift ground a lot, because that will confuse him and he won't know how to make things better.

If he's not very responsive to this kind of thing you'll have to decide if this is a battle you really need to win and only take it on if so.

If you decide to press this issue I would approach it by telling him clearly what exactly it is that he has done that has upset me, why that behaviour was unacceptable within our relationship, and what I expected him to do about it. I would do this in one go, not as part of a dialogue. Then I would tell him that I expected him to think about what I was saying and respond to me later.

Then I would stop talking about it and go about business as usual for a while until we had both caled down and then revisit the issue and see if he was able to do what I had asked for.

You need to make it clear that he has to sort this situation out with this woman, it may well have been just harmless flirting, but it has hurt you and damaged your relationship. He needs to understand that if he doesn't address it, it will sabotage your relationship, particularly as you are feeling vulnerable having had a partner who had an affair in the past.

As skidoodle said, if your relationship is generally good, there is probably no point in pursuing it, but if you feel he's having his ego stroked by her because he feels something is lacking at home, then you need to address that with him.
It is not easy to concentrate on your relationship when you are busy with jobs, kids etc. but I realised that the situation i found myself in, whilst not being in anyway my fault, was probably a symptom of the fact that after 2 kids, full time jobs and running a business, DH and I were neglecting each other, and that is something I have had to address.
However I don't think your situation is nearly as critical as mine, and I think, if your relationship is strong in every other way, the best way of dealing with this is seeing it as a 'blip' he's been an idiot, now try and concentrate on each other.

Hmmm I agree. I just want him to hold his hands up, say sorry, admit he has fucked up, accept that he is totally responsible(instead of trying to blame her), and tell me exactly how he is going to put it right. Instead he is being really arsey with me and making it all ten times worse. He does have a general habit of doing this every time we have an argument. He just cannot accept responsibility for his own actions and blames everything that goes wrong in his life on other people.

I told him last night that if I get one inkling that he hasn't sorted this situation out properly with this woman then I would go to their workplace and have it out with them both and that I wouldn't care who saw or heard me. Dh didn't really say much to this, but he did say that he only spoke to her yesterday about work related matters and she absolutely hated it.

My best friend has suggested that he should just say to her "Please stop this. I am a happily married man and I'm not interested in you." I guess you can't be blunter than that.

He's taking me out for a meal tonight, not sure I'm going to go if he comes home from work being a complete C U Next Tuesday, but hopefully he'll have had time to think things through some more and won't be so arsey with me.