"But we took you to stately homes" - Part 4

[oneplusone]

Can't beleive we're onto part 4, although i can't see this thread ever dying.

I was just reading through past posts to try and catch up on the months i have missed and something somebody said has triggered something for me. I know my mother didn't bond with me or love me and i think part of the reason why was because she thought i took after my dad whom she hates (although she is too gutless to leave him). I remember when i was young her saying things like my hair was like my dad's but she wouldn't say it an affectionate way, but quite a venomous way and it always made me feel uncomfortable when she said that but i must have been too young to figure out why.

The more i realise about my mother the more i despise and hate her. I remember she used to play hide and seek with me when i was very young, about 3. Only she would 'really' hide in a place i would never be able to find her. I remember crying and feeling completely distressed one time as i thought she had gone and left me alone at home. It was only after i had been crying for some time that she jumped out laughing from her hiding place. What a nasty, cruel, ugly piece of work and she parades around looking as if butter wouldn't melt and she has a lot of people fooled including my 2 sisters. I know my dad can see her for what she is which is why she hates him and i can see her true colours too which is why i hate her.

I know inside she is deeply insecure, lacks intelligence, strength and integrity. I have witnessed her lie, manipulate and cheat to get what she wants and the people to whom she lies and those who she manipulates are us, her own family. I just can't beleive my sisters cannot see through her, they are totally blind and deaf to her true character and have completely fallen for the victim role she has carved out for herself.

Cutting off my parents was the best thing i ever did and i have realised i need to set some boundaries with my sisters, my last remaining friend and even DH. How to do that is another thing, something completely new to me.

Oneplusone
(((hugs)))
I can feel your pain. I wasn't really "left out" by sisters, but mates at school. I kept myself busy enough with doing "my own thing" that I didn't notice much. But I knew.

I hope you find a way to disassociate your happiness from involving your sisters in any way.

I know you see the family dynamic developing into something that you will find very hard to endure-like a nightmare happening all over again. But try to find a strategy to let them be-trying to influence them will only lead you to more intensified frustration and they will ridicule you for it, imho.

It is sad. Very, very sad, and I feel sad for you and your history and your current circumstances regarding your sisters.

This may be another item on the menu of grieving for our lost childhoods.

I am presently feeling more for my lost history, recovering ugly memories of what (thousands of things) my mom ought to have done but didn't. I can rationalize it-she simply couldn't in her condition, but still I am and mad and some how have a nagging feeling that I'm just scratching the surface.
I cried in counselors office first time last week...just a few tears eeked out--that is how much I can not feel.

I remember a "reparenting" web site was mentioned ages ago for adults to reparent themselves to fill in these painful histories with positive resolution. Maybe there will be something there for you.
Got to go...

Look at this page
for some information on reparenting.
I have read through some of it with interest, but have not yet tried it-except I am trying to be nicer to myself.

G2B- (hello) your mil sounds like she never developed beyond the emotional level of a 13 years old (or is it 6?). Anyway, knowing what you are dealing with helps keep things in perspective. Keep boundaries real and don't hesitate to 'debrief' your son ie: coach him in the fact that he does not have to compete for your love. MAKE SURE he knows that. The way mil is setting up rivalry is so toxic. What she is doing- it is shocking.

Hi Smithfield and Ally
I hope you are feeling better Smithfield. And Ally-do you enjoy being pg? I never did-even though I really had no major complaints.

Hi,
sorry for barging in now and again then dissapearing again as I tend to do. I was just drawn to this thread today, and have had a quick read. Ally, you still sound very strong, very confident .
Smithfield, I always connect to everything you write.
Oneplusone and Acting Normal, I have been fascinated to read your posts on here, just because of the sheer amount of insight you both have into your situations. I try to apply some of the things you talk about to my situation.
To the other people who just started posting, please keep posting because the hardest part- realising that how you were treated was wrong- is over now, so you can now begin to work through your pain.

One thing that is constantly niggling me like someone else said (sorry don't know who) about being so nervous that we might be somehow messing up our kids. I am besotted by DD but I wonder sometimes, if I had another child, would that child become a scapegoat? Would DD become a scapegoat? MIL has 3 children- DH is the all-favourite, and then there is an evil, pariah elder brother. THe brother lives with MIL at her request in their big, posh house (a Japanese thing), and yet MIL, SIL and DH spend all their time bitching about him and what a waste of space he is. I can't get it through DH's thick skull that his mother has caused this situation, and relishes it. But I know that MIL doesn't even know she's doing it. Its like breathing to her. SO I know that mothers can just "fall into" this behaviour of treating one of their children like shit, and I am terrified that it will be me one day- that I won't have the faculties or abilities to raise my children fairly and properly because of how f*cked up I am. I dearly want more children, but do sometimes think maye I shouldn't have had any because then there would be a guarantee that I couldn'T mess up any lives!

Hi,

My FIL and BIL have today pissed us (me and Mr ATM) off something chronic. They turned around to MIL and told her straight that they did not want DS there this afternoon whilst we went to see a film. As some of you are aware of what this lot are like (I have written about my BIL on here before) I thought I would post here rather than do a separate thread.

Feel both and [upset] at the pair of them, their loss ultimately. I also want nothing more to do with them.

sakura- I do relate to what you are saying because I know this is how I feel on many occassions.
I can honestly say to you though that 'insight' is the key.

The further I go on this journey the more and more I realise about my reactions, my emotional triggers, my lack of self belief....the list of what I discover is un-ending and it all goes towards making me a better mother.
I went through a long period of feeling crap about everything, but as I look back I am only just seeing how far I have come.

But I also know I have a long way to go.

It is difficult and I will be honest with you, when dd was first born I think I did fall into the scapegoat trap. I believe many loving parents probably do.
Ds just 'looked' so grown up next to dd that I began treating him older. I realised one day when I was reading a thread on MN, and another MN'er was saying how all the stress and 'wrongness' was being offloaded onto their youngest ds and at the time she believed that he was constantly naughty.
One day he was sat on the 'naughty step' yet again and he had said 'hello mummy and smiled' and she suddenly realised how small and innocent he was and how his behaviour was down to her and her reaction to him.
I read this and knew what I had to change and I have.

I guess what Im saying Sakura that there are many things which seperate us from our parents and how they parented us.

Firstly and foremost, the foundation for all of us is love. A deep deep love that surmounts everything else. It is what drives us to read, write on this thread, go to therapy and analyse our behaviour and our interactions.

I never had enough 'self' love to do all this, but the love for my children drives me.

Secondly, just as we are driven by that love to discover and continue to enlighten oursleves we are also 'willing' to learn and adapt and keep moving forward.

I know when I encompass issues with either of my children, I am willing to look at my reactions 'to them'. I will take the blame, every time because 'they' are the children and 'I am' the adult. If they have any issues they 'are' down to me.
So I stop think about what I am doing, read and ask how I could do thinks differently, and then apply it.

I know this is what you do too Sakura. All of the above, because 'as you say'...you 'LOVE' your daughter.
Just as you will 'LOVE' the next one.

There will be bumps in the road should you have another child, but you will 'work' through it as I am.

I do believe it would be kinder for me to stop at two. That is because I know my own limitations. I do not deal well with stress and I have to find some better ways of dealing with that. That's how far my self-knowledge has brought me.

I think you should not rule out having the joy of another child because your parents were bad parents.
That was them and you are different althogether from them.

You have the gift of 'insight'.

Atilla - ((((((hug)))))) I am on your behalf and for your ds.

What did MIL say? Did she stand up for ds? Was any of this said in front of ds?

It is completely shocking the way they have behaved today. You are totally justified to feel you no longer want any more to do with them. Does your DH feel the same?
Your DH must be very hurt by this also?

Just come on here and rant and vent, or take yourself dh and ds off somewhere 'really' nice for lunch. Dont let them spoil the rest of your day (easier said I know).

I do feel this is jelousy rearing its ugly head. What are your thoughts?
It just shows them for what they are though if they can vent their insecurities onto a child .

Like you say it is their loss as they do not deserve to have any of you in their lives and they will miss out as a result.

Hello everyone. It?s taken me literally months to catch up with this thread ? at last I?ve got to the end!!! I started writing my mad mother?s shenanigans down but realised it would take a million words so gave up (alcoholic father is easier and shorter). I?m not sure how far along the process I am, I realised years ago that my mother was a nutter and I think I?d accepted that she can never be a proper mother to me (she was violent, physically and emotionally abusive, dishonest, manipulative, etc. etc.). Three or four years ago, I made a conscious decision not to rise to her bait (she can?t stop herself and I used to get drawn into a stupid argument and then feel angry and frustrated with myself for allowing her to wind me up) and so of course, what she?s done is up the ante by behaving atrociously whenever she visits to try and get a reaction. I?ve been thinking that I?ve been ignoring her, but in fact what I?ve been doing is bottling it up, because although I may act emotionally distant to her, I?m obviously not.

I think we?re encouraged by our culture not to look at the roots of depression etc. in childhood as it?s seen as self-indulgent. I?ve always thought going to counselling would be terribly self-indulgent and have thought that as I?m a lone parent with very little money, it simply can?t be justified. Reading Toxic Parents and this thread, has made me realise that it?s an investment in my mental/ emotional health and that of my children and in my relationship with them and what the hell is more important than that? I wish counselling were more widely available and cheaper and perceived less negatively as I think so many people have had such terrible emotional input from their parents and unwittingly pass on that legacy to their children.

Thanks to all who are posting and sharing, it?s a huge support and has galvanized me into seeking counseling and reading, reading, reading.

Hi Smithfield

Thanks for the hug. Right back at ya!!!(((((Smithfield)))))).

Fortunately none of this was said in front of either us or DS (if they had dared to say such Mr ATM and I would have torn them limb from limb!!): that conversation with my BIL and FIL was done at their house and we were told by MIL of their words in a phone call after our initial request. I would say that MIL and co haven't seen DS or us for a few weeks now also because we've not long come back off our hols. I don't know if she stuck up for DS or herself at all, my gut instinct tells me that she did not stick up for her own self anyway out of further wanting a quiet life.

FIL and BIL are by their nature both selfish creatures of habit; I will not tolerate this crap from them, they've completely had it as far as I am concerned. Actually DH feels the same way as I do re their behaviour. He is particularly hacked off by his brother as he spends most time in his room (room?- what am I saying, more like flea ridden cesspit!) anyway. There is an element of jealousy also to their actions; FIL has been away for three days and wants to bend my MIL's ear. This could be understandable in normal circs but this lot are not a "normal" family unit. MIL also remarked to DH that her husband and son have ganged up on her more recently.

They would overall make a good case study for Raj Persaud. MIL and FIL can just about stand to be in the same room as each other. MIL did seem very upset that she could not sit DS today. However, my sympathy for MIL only goes so far generally speaking because the three of them continue to enable each other.

Anyway mis parentes have offered to look after DS for us this arvo whilst we go and see the film. We're all still having a nice Bank Holiday anyway, that other lot are so not worth it. They can all stew in their own filth.

Anyway, that's more than enough about me!. I personally think you've come a long way Smithfield and am glad that this thread is helping you as it does me. You're a credit to your own self for having insight your parents never had, will ever have or are capable of having.

your fellow MNetter Attila x

tmsb, thank you so much for the hug, i really needed it, i don't think anybody else in the world apart from all of you on here could possibly understand how i feel. I think just admitting my feelings out loud has somehow helped lessen the 'scariness' of the past repeating itself when my middle sister has a baby. I still feel apprehensive but that sick feeling in my stomach seems to have gone for now.

Although i did feel a bit upset again this morning when i had a txt from younger sister mentioning she had talked to middle sister about middle sister's visit here at the weekend/ There was nothing nasty in the text, but just knowing the two of them had spoken so soon after the visit just upset me. Totally irrational i know but there it is, i felt upset knowing they had talked, knowing middle sister must have gone over to younger sister's place whilst i was here all alone. I remember i also felt upset when middle sister's DH mentioned in passing they had been to younger sister's place a few days ago and met her sil and bil who were both over from abroad. But yet again althoughh the pain is there i know i am moving forward in that i am aware of my feelings, of feeling left out, it is such a fleeting moment of pain, but it is most definately there and i am glad in a way as i know it means i can feel compared to before when i was completely numb.

Something smithfield said worries me slightly, about somehow inadvertantly making one of our children scapegoats. I am so to admit that i think DD is sometimes my scapegoat. I so desperately wish that i had somehow begun this journey and gained this level of self awareness before i had my DC's. Because then i think very little of my own childhood history would have impacted on them. But the way things turned out, after I had DD i had severe post natal depression and i am sure this was due to memories from my childhood being triggered by her birth. But the PND meant i didn't bond with DD and i although i feel our relationship has improved in that my rages have gone, i still don't feel the attachment/connection with DD that i feel with DS. And i read somewhere that if you don't bond instantly with your baby you will probably never bond and i am worried this may be true in my case.

It may be that i will be the only one aware of the lack of bond on my part and DD will always be none the wiser as because i have the insight and self awareness my mother never had i am able to consciously make sure i as much as possible fulfill DD's emotional needs and DH loves her dearly too and so i am confident she will not suffer at all in the way i did as a child. But I know the bond is not there, I feel it even if DD doesn't and it is a very difficult feeling to cope with. Sometimes i don't even know if can feel any love for DD, i don't feel hate instead, i just feel nothing which is in many ways worse. But how can i create feelings if they simply aren't there? This is why what smithfield says worries me as i don't necessarily feel my love for my DC's is what is driving me along this road. I honestly don't know what it is that is compelling me to keep looking into myself and dealing with whatever i see there. I feel there is some inner force pushing me, but i am not sure that it is love for my DC's. Sometimes i think it is my 'inner child' (bit of a corny phrase i know); she wants me to hear her and listen to as i have ignored her for so long, i've ignored her feelings, i've tried to push them away, bury them, and now she is refusing to be ignored and she is compelling me to look at her and i suppose in a way seek justice for her and repair the damage that was done so many years ago.

I do sometimes find myself wishing i had done what i am doing now a long time ago, long before i got married and had DC's. Because i feel it is only now that i have found my true self, that i have the confidence to be who i really am instead of the shell of a person i now realise i was all this time. I find myself wondering if i would have still made the choices i have made and what i would have done with my life. I realise that 'before' i was simply 'sleepwalking' through my life, i wasn't really living it and i wish i could go back and live it properly, with the knowledge and insight i have now, with self esteem which i realise now i had none of and also self confidence. I feel i am just starting my life now at the age of 38, i am already nearly half way through, i have 'lost' half my life to my parents.

They will never ever realise how much they have taken from me in order to serve their own ends, how they exploited and used their own child to meet their own needs. All they are aware of is what in their eyes they have done for me, all the stately homes they took me to, and i know for that reason i can never ever see them again. Just knowing that they have no awareness at all of the pain they have caused me hurts me even more. I feel as if my life has been sacrificed in order to save a future generation, similar in a way to soldiers who go to war and die to save their country. It is worth it to know my children will have a different childhood to me and that i have hopefully 'stopped the rot' but it is very painful nevertheless and also very unfair. Why me? I know the answer to that is Why not you? I wouldn't wish my childhood onto anyone but i didn't want it either

Also, one more thing that i have just remembered, TMSB, what you said about keeping yourself busy so you didn't feel upset at being left out by your 'friends'. I did that too, i was always buried in a book and i think now it was a form of childhood escapism from my lonliness and painful feelings.

oneplusone I suspect that if I had never had children, I would not have faced up to all the childhood issues. I am 42, my older child is 9 and it's only in the last year or so that I have really understood how much my childhood affected the choices I made and the way I lived my life. It was having the children which forced me to confront my childhood. Because I look at my 6 year old DD and think "my god, how could you do that to a child this small and sweet" and if she wasn't there, I wouldn't do IYSWIM. So I kind of think that I could never have got the insight, without the children, I don't know if that would be true for you. Which of course, is most unfortunate for the oldest child, because they get less of your insight than any of the younger ones. But better late than never.

Oneplusone: On the coping website I gave a link to in my last post there is a section called:
Growing Down: Tools for healing the inner child. There is a lot there; I hope you will give it a read through.

I am kind of on the other side of the fence although I know our circumstances are not parallel. I think my middle sister thinks that she is being left out, but the truth is - she is. Not that Oldest Sister and I do stuff together; we don't-she lives 200 miles away and hates to travel; but we talk on the phone more since I began my journey of childhood reflection/recovery. I just could not tolerate Middle Sister blowing in here to "hold court". Her visit over Christmas was unbearable and she was the last person I wanted to see when I gave birth. My Oldest Sister was here at the birth (she is a nurse), true; but there was no design to "leave MS out" until 3 days before I was induced when she shut me up over the phone three times (when I was indeed just about to invite her over!!) I told her I was going to be induced on Tuesday, but she couldn't/wouldn't hear it instead having her head up her arse that Oldest Sister was here-"Were we having fun?" I was a frigging week over due-Having fun? We are not out partying. So she "rephrased that" "Am I enjoying OS's company?" (Yes, I always enjoy OS's company) (OS meanwhile in shock at hearing my side of this conversation.) Sorry I rehashed that...

I hope that your sisters are simply oblivious of their omission of you by habit. I don't know how old you are but the older you get the age differences should not matter as much. I don't know what you should do. It may depend on whether or not you can move beyond the past-hard, I know (and I would be one to not forget the past insults) (funny me saying that as my history is a bit incoherent ). But having children does begin a whole new chapter that you seemed to see in your youngest sister. Try to let your perceived slights in the present go more easily-which may borderline denying your truth for a time (be careful). But the object is to build a new relationship and the old view finder filters might hinder the progress. Find new filters to look through for the positive signs and steps and celebrate them and get as much "mileage" out of them as you can.

Now, can I apply that to my circumstances with my MS? My new filter is truth-and the truth of my MS is not pleasant. Until I repair/ recover from my childhood mess, I can not spend much time around her... she will reflexively put me back into the childhood role of invisibility again and again - not mentally healthy for me. Brainwashing-my brain was actually shutting down when ever an uncomfortable circumstance arose-just let MS be leader-go along to get along. at myself for losing my self assertiveness around her. This may have come to be in concurrence with other influences.

Some here has discussed DH's view and/or participation in our challenges. I kind of skipped over that then, but here and now with my new filter of truth and damn the denial: mine too. Now I love him and can fall in love with him over and over. But I have for a long time felt that I love him more than he loves me. Does he love me? Since he started AD I can say yes, more than before. But he does have a way of degrading me, dismissing me as his father dismisses his mother and sisters. Chauvinism? Needy testosterone ego? Just mean? I don't know, but I learned to just shut up and go away ie disappear and be invisible. Fine- his way- fine. Such a good wife! Just little petty stuff that really isn't worth fighting over, but it adds up, doesn't it? Realizing this, yes, makes me mad--so another source perpetuating my problem is the one I married.
Well, he's home now-best go

Take care oneplusone (((hugs))). I hope what I've written doesn't offend you-or anyone else.

Littlebella, Pages- who originally started this thread, talked about what a huge investment it was to go to councelling. She said that all the stuff we spend money on (clothes, gym, beauty treatments, meals out) that are supposed to make us feel better, don't actually cure or fix us. But money set aside for councelling, or good therapy books can really change our state of mind and our life.
Smithfield, thank you for the vote of confidence. It moved me to read of that lady on the other thread who was just overwhelmed by her son's vulnerability. I do get that feeling with DD, and you're right, we all here do have insight where our mothers didn't.
Oneplusone, some people die without ever realising they were abused by their parents. And one thing we all here know is that it is never to late to change in the eyes of our children. I mean, look at all of us here- what we wouldn't give for our parents to have a tiny spark of awareness, even now. If they showed something, we would forgive them instantly and forget the past and move on. But they can'T, and that is too painful for us, so we've broken contact. Your children are still young and you have been given this chance (by GOd or whatever) to have a good go at making this right, whereas your mother wasn't open to that opportunity and just went on her merry way behaving as she did.

Attila, your in-laws are INSANE. Just keep reminding your self that they are living in their own little mad world that you do not need to be a part of!

Hi Sakura

Thanks for your support too.

Mad world indeed. My ILs are all as mad as a box of frogs. At the very least they are all dysfunctional.

DH is thinking of getting his Mum (along with her sister) over here this coming weekend (he would like to show them our holiday snaps and have a chat). DS will be here so will need to be careful in how we talk about yesterday. Both of us are not at all inclined to visit their house.

Its probably a bit "easier" for me as I am not their daughter (thank God!) but I do feel for DH having such a toxic bunch. He doesn't express his emotions re them all that much but what he has said is succinct and is very much what I've said all along about them.

There is a crumb of comfort. They have taught me many abject lessons, for one showing me that enabling helps no-one.

with best wishes

Attila x

tmsb, you have not offended me in the slightest. In fact you have no idea of the impact your kind words and hugs have had on me. I have realised that you are the first person who i have ever felt has taken notice of my feelings, who has taken my feelings seriously, who has considered them and shown me some empathy, compassion, acceptance and understanding. In all my 38, i really can't remember that happening before and that makes me so sad, as the feeling of being heard and understood is so good. I know partly the reason nobody has heard me before is because i have never revealed my true feelings to anyone. I have kept them all hidden deep inside and it's only on this thread that i feel it is safe to show or tell anyone my deepest, darkest thoughts and feelings.

Alice Miller talks all the time about how crucially important this process is for a young child, for her mother to take her feelings seriously, to hear them, validate them, mirror them. It is crucial for the child's development of her sense of self, her self esteem, her self confidence and i never once had that from my mother. Every time i showed her my feelings she rejected me and them and i had to hide them. She was only available to me if i had happy feelings to show her. No wonder then i have spent my whole life hiding all my feelings, even from myself. I have always found it very hard if not impossible also to open up even to very close friends, but how would i be able to open up as an adult if i had been taught as a child that I should not do that.

And so i have been alone, all this time, with my fears, worries, sadness, and pain just because my parents could not cope with these feelings.

Re my sisters, i really have no idea whether they have any awareness at all of my feelings. Even in the past month i can think of so many little comments made by both of them, apparently completely innocently, which have caused me pain and upset and to me showed they were completely insensetive to and/or unaware of my feelings. I have learnt now to seperate out the reasons someone might say/do something and the impact of their comment on me. I allow myself to feel upset if they have said something to hurt me, and do not try and rationalise away my feelings because of why they might have said what they did. I am sure none of this makes sense to anyone but me, but it just helps to write it down. Ultimately it doesn't matter why someone has said something, all that matters is how it makes me feel and i know i should take all my feelings seriously and give them the attention they deserve. I think this is what is meant by re-parenting yourself and looking after yourself in the way your parents never did.

Littlebella, i know you are right, i am pretty sure i would never have looked at myself and my childhood in this way if i had not had children, but that is what makes it all so sad for me anyway. If i could have done all this before having DD, our relationship would have been so different, right from the very start. Like you said, it is the eldest child who suffers the most and i suppose i feel sorry for myself as well as for DD as i am also the eldest and i know i have definately had the worst of my parents' toxicity. It seemed to have lessened with each child so my youngest sister has been 'poisoned' the least.

smithfield, the reason i mentioned maternal ambivalence to you was because of these lines in one of your posts:"I veer between thinking of him as spoilt and witholding from him to thinking of him as my angel and overindulging him."

And:"I know I love him very much but I honestly feel lately that 'there are times' when I dont like him"

That's why i thought those links might be of interest. Sorry to randomly mention this now, i just haven't had time to do it before.

Actually i know why i have mentioned those links again now, yesterday i spent the whole day thinking i really don't like DD . For some reason everything she said or did annoyed me and i just wanted her to go away. There was a point in the day when DD and DH were walking ahead of myself and DS and i found myself thinking i wish DH and DD would both just disappear and leave me with DS. I am absolutely besotted with DS and i have been ever since he was born, even before he was born actually. I wanted him in a way i never wanted DD, even before DD was born, and i can see my attitude and feelings during pregnancy have simply carried on after DD and DS were born.

I have been desperately trying to fight my negative feelings for DD but i am beginning to realise now it is futile to do so. Even after all the progress i have made about my own childhood, it has not changed these feelings about DD. I think the only way forward for me is to take each day as it comes and if it is going to be a 'negative towards DD' day, to just accept it and not try to fight it. But by being aware of my feelings i can actually avoid them impacting on DD so hopefully she will not even be aware of how i'm feeling inside and just let the feeling pass of it's own accord. I never constantly feel negative towards DD, today i feel very warm and affectionate towards her. I hope the negative days will get fewer and fewer, perhaps as she gets older things will improve. But for me, self awareness is the key, if i know i am having a 'negative' day, i can be aware of it and make sure i don't act it out on DD.

Like someone else said on here, sorry can't remember who, i feel i have only really scratched the surface about my childhood, despite all the progress i know i have made and the hugely raised level of self awareness i have, and so perhaps my negative feelings towards DD relate to matters i have not yet uncovered and in time, once i reveal more layers, those feelings will resolve themselves.

Go with the flow, that is now my motto.

oneplusone- Do you think your sister's visit could have been a trigger?

OMG smithfield, you may be onto something! Thank you! Need to go away and think, but I am sure you're right.

When sis was over, at one point we showed them a video of DD singing at a wedding. DD was brilliant and sang all by herself, full of confidence and word perfect. Whilst we were watching the video, my siter was laughing , she seemed to find DD funny for some reason. I was getting annoyed with sis as I knew DD might get upset at her laughing at her, luckily DD didn't get upset, but i was still bemused and annoyed at why my sis was laughing, there was nothing to laugh at. Of course at the time i didn't show my annoyance, but afterwards......I'm sure that's what could have caused my 'don't like DD' day. Also, i'm sure just being around my sister triggers lots of memories from childhood without me being fully aware of them and these affect my behaviour for the next few days.

Thank you so much smithfield, i would never have noticed the link if you hadn't pointed it out.

I was just thinking this morning that after spending months 'chasing' my sisters and being desperate to have a relationship with them, now i am not so sure if it's a good idea. I don't think being around them is particularly good for me, and i think i need to limit my contact with them, until at least i have got to grips with who they really are and set some boundaries in our relationship.

The problem is DD seems to love spending time with my sister and i like seeing her so happy, so would want to see sis more for DD's sake. But then it is no good if afterwards i find i am feeling negative towards DD. It so similar to when i was seeing my parents, not surprising of course as my sisters must also be toxic as well.

Oneplusone, you wrote:
.. who has taken my feelings seriously, who has considered them and shown me some empathy, compassion, acceptance and understanding..... I know partly the reason nobody has heard me before is because i have never revealed my true feelings to anyone. I have kept them all hidden deep inside and it's only on this thread that i feel it is safe to show or tell anyone my deepest, darkest thoughts and feelings.
...and...
Alice Miller talks all the time about how crucially important this process is for a young child, for her mother to take her feelings seriously, to hear them, validate them, mirror them. It is crucial for the child's development of her sense of self, her self esteem, her self confidence and i never once had that from my mother. Every time i showed her my feelings she rejected me and them and i had to hide them. She was only available to me if i had happy feelings to show her. No wonder then i have spent my whole life hiding all my feelings, even from myself. I have always found it very hard if not impossible also to open up even to very close friends, but how would i be able to open up as an adult if i had been taught as a child that I should not do that.

This is me exactly. My mother communicated zero with me. Nay! She wouldn't hesitate to laugh or ridicule me whenever I expressed a point of view or the smallest comment on even the most petty subjects. Shut me up. (Thus this is how Middle Sister treats me.) We were not really of the 'see children not hear them' people either. She helped me with nothing-handed me a book when I got my period . So many other examples.

Rationalizing away other's behavior toward us: yes, I end up thinking "What did I do to deserve that?"

To avoid being dismissed by others (after they ask my opinion-baiting me?) I have been in the habit of saying "But you don't have to take my word for it" (innocently, matter of factly) and that has been a good way to gracefully bow out of the conversation. Yet I now realize I am dismissing myself-as if that were better than others doing it. NOT.

I have progressed in the department of not caring what they think, or what they think of me-which is liberating.

Silence is golden, but now my communication style is so incoherent it is embarrassing. I never had the practice communicating so I can not. I just go numb, or my brain goes in 8 different directions (incoherent). Which all here can see from my posts . I so appreciate your patience!!!!

tmsb, I'm sorry to hear about your mother, it must have been awful for you (((hug))). I totally understand about your mother not helping you with anything, mine was the same, in fact if she had not been there, it wouldn't have made the slightest difference to me. Provided there had been some sort of (non-speaking) housekeeper to cook and clean, but not interact in any way with me, it would have been the same as it was with my mother around.

oneplusone- Perhaps you saw your sister laughing at dd as a rejection. Rejection of your dd would be felt as keenly by yourself as if it were in fact you.

As you were saying before in your previous post the trick is catching the subconcious reaction which can be so deeply buried.

Proves something else too if this is the case....how deeply you do care for dd, but also maybe you are seeing yourself in her, and projecting feelings of rejection from yourself onto her?.

Dont know if this helps...but Ive had similar with regard to middle db and reactions from being around him...although I dont have time to elaborate...I will do later if you think it may help? (((((hug))))

smithfield, you are right again. I was thinking about it last night, that my sister laughing at DD is how i feel she treats me. Both my sisters always seem to be (not openly) but somehow laughing at me, at the way i do things, even at the sort of friends i have. I have always felt they are somehow mocking me, and have no respect for me at all, despite me being the eldest.

And you're right about feeling that when my sister was laughing at DD she was also laughing at me.

And when we were much younger my sisters, especially the middle one, were openly mocking of me and used to laugh at me and make fun of me about various things.

I am in a bit of dilemma now, as i really do feel i want to limit the contact i have with both my sisters but i don't know how to do this as i have spent months literally chasing after them and wanting to have a relationship with them. In doing that i realise now i have been completely ignoring my 'inner child' as the truth is they have always been quite nasty to me and like i said, always have this slightly mocking attitude towards me. I'm sure my 'inner child' would say : Why do you want anything to do with them? When they clearly have no respect for you and treat you so badly?

I have been chasing something i have never had and can never have, a genuinely caring, close relationship with my sisters, and it has taken me a long time to realise this. Maybe i have known it all along but refused to believe it or accept it, but i know now that it's the truth and i am finally able to accept it.

It's a bit difficult now to reduce the contact that i have initiated, but i have stopped texting and emailing them as often as i used to, and i will just gradually cut it down to a level i feel comfortable with. This realisation also helps with the childhood feelings of being left out, i guess i don't really care anymore, even if they do do baby things together once middle sister has her baby. I don't even think their relationship is as close as it seems, i don't think any one of us has a good relationship with each other, our dysfunctional family has seen to that.