"But we took you to stately homes" - Part 4

[oneplusone]

Can't beleive we're onto part 4, although i can't see this thread ever dying.

I was just reading through past posts to try and catch up on the months i have missed and something somebody said has triggered something for me. I know my mother didn't bond with me or love me and i think part of the reason why was because she thought i took after my dad whom she hates (although she is too gutless to leave him). I remember when i was young her saying things like my hair was like my dad's but she wouldn't say it an affectionate way, but quite a venomous way and it always made me feel uncomfortable when she said that but i must have been too young to figure out why.

The more i realise about my mother the more i despise and hate her. I remember she used to play hide and seek with me when i was very young, about 3. Only she would 'really' hide in a place i would never be able to find her. I remember crying and feeling completely distressed one time as i thought she had gone and left me alone at home. It was only after i had been crying for some time that she jumped out laughing from her hiding place. What a nasty, cruel, ugly piece of work and she parades around looking as if butter wouldn't melt and she has a lot of people fooled including my 2 sisters. I know my dad can see her for what she is which is why she hates him and i can see her true colours too which is why i hate her.

I know inside she is deeply insecure, lacks intelligence, strength and integrity. I have witnessed her lie, manipulate and cheat to get what she wants and the people to whom she lies and those who she manipulates are us, her own family. I just can't beleive my sisters cannot see through her, they are totally blind and deaf to her true character and have completely fallen for the victim role she has carved out for herself.

Cutting off my parents was the best thing i ever did and i have realised i need to set some boundaries with my sisters, my last remaining friend and even DH. How to do that is another thing, something completely new to me.

...and I didn't feel in a weaker position than them or intimidated. I felt I had some control - is this because it was ME who decided how long we would stay and how much I felt I could cope with? I feel like I am now in a position where they need me more than I need them. Also I didn't feel like a child because I am now a parent myself and the children were with me the whole time and I was focussing on them and absorbed in being a mother. We weren't there long enough for the children to go to bed and for me and DH to be 'alone' with my parents.

I also felt like because I was absorbed in being a mother with my DCs I was being myself more than ever before because I just wasn't thinking about what my parents thought/felt about me. It felt really liberating to be myself in front of them, not imprisoned inside the false person I had constructed to get through childhood. I keep going on about feeling I want to 'escape' in my posts - well being myself in front of my parents feels like escaping!

I hardly actually talked to my parents and find it hard even to look at them and meet their eyes, so I wasn't being myself to them, but being myself in front of them to my children feels like a really good start. I feel a bit guilty for mostly 'ignoring' my parents and mainly talking to my DCs, but this is all I am capable of with them at the moment and they will have to take it or leave it! I am doing all I can, finding any coping strategies I can so that I can carry on being in some minimal contact. I think I have found ways in my head for the visits to feel beneficial to me and not just them.

I hope I don't confuse people with my ramblings, as I think some of my thinking really goes against what Alice Miller would say!

Well I'm back.

Thanks for your words of support - they really made a difference.

Mum is very confused and doesn't know how to act. In her mind she has always thought that she wanted me to be independant and it is just my failings that have made her have to do all she does.

Now I am taking control back she doesn't know whether to be proud or furious.

She tried to start arguments so she could show how childish I was but i didn't rise to them and had answers to all the things she thought I wouldn't have worked out (including how we would take ds to school when he starts - who would take him etc ). Ds is 3.

There are still a couple of issues to be sorted but for now it is ok. I have thrown her and I planning to have everything in place to get out before she finds her feet again.

I think what is hard for her and especially for my aunt is that they see renting as something only 'poor' people do. 'Normal' people only rent as students if their parents can't afford to buy a house. It has really shocked them that renting is an option for me. For my aunt that is a sign of failure. For my mum - she doesn't really know how to place it.

oh my, this thread moves too fast for me to keep up. I can't take it all in. Just thought I would pop in to day hello to you all. Mother in on her way again and I am a gibering wreck after last time I will read what I have missed on this thread later on. I am going to go and have a soak in the bath now and try to chill a bit before the arrival

Ally - It's going okay, I have an appointment with the GP this afternoon, and then hopefully I will be able to get transferred to the midwife team after that. I don't really like my local surgery because it's all the same doctor's that saw me when I was a kid, and a bit irrationally it makes me feel very young and vulnerable (reminds me of past etc) and I would just rather be with the midwives and feel a bit more in control. My morning sickness is so up and down though! The evening and morning before DP and I went to stay with PIL this weekend it was really really bad, but has been absolutely fine since then - which was good as we've decided not to tell them yet!

I get the impression that if I'm nervous or anxious about something it gets a lot worse, and when I'm feeling positive and happy it's a lot better. I have always been capable of being so anxious it made me physically sick and I think the MS has got caught up in that.

Everyone sounds like they've been doing very well over the past few days!

AnAngel - anyway you can put her off? Go out when she's supposed to be arriving so you don't feel obliged to let her in? Am very worried about you seeing her if she's potentially going to be violent.

AnAngelwithin - no wonder you are feeling worried.

She can only see you if you let her. If you don't want to then don't let her in. Look the doors and pretend to be out or go out.

Have you got dcs at home with you?

It is understandable that you do not what to see her.

yes dcs are here. im feeling very sick and scared

Good luck Angel. I really hope you don't let her in and can make some sort of plan in your head for how to put her off coming in the future.

If you do let her in and she comes physically near you as though she is going to be aggressive could you look her straight in the face and say "What are you doing?", to make her think about what she is doing, then if she tries to hit you/push you etc, try to grab her arms and hold her away from you and say "Do NOT hit me, I do not have to let you in my house if you are not going to treat me properly, and what sort of example do you think this is for my children?"

If you don't manage to do this (I can imagine if it was me just freezing in horror and being too scared to do anything), could you at least practice visualising yourself doing it and keep visualising how you would like to be with her, standing up for yourself, until the thought of it seems more and more natural and you are more likely to do it in the future. I know it is easy to say and not so easy to do, but don't give up.

Hope you are/will be ok. Will you let us know later?

AnAngel - how's it gone? What happened? Are you okay... and don't worry about keeping up with thread...you'll be here forever just keep posting what is happening for support...I really don't want you to deal with your mother alone...I'll be thinking of you til you post again. xx

AN - Sounds like you coped with a difficult situation well. How were you going...bit nervous? I know what you mean about not being the same person round parents. See how you feel over next week/2 weeks as to what you do next about your boundries, if you want to change them, or leave as they are. I do think you trying to get what you 'can' out of the experience is a good way to deal with it (Don't worry about following advice from books...one size does not fit all...just use what you find helpful). How in control you felt...was probably down to the boundries YOU put in place you should feel proud of yourself!

TheAmadillo - I'm so happy for you that it went off well was it your finest hour? Something said in Toxic Parents about confrontation of abuse...but this was a huge undertaking for you and you DID IT!! I'm not kidding about feeling really happy for you either It must really have taken some guts to stand your ground. Well done you! Its a good sign that your mother doesn't know where to put herself...keep up the good work and expect a change of tact by your mother/aunt/other relatives getting involved...they don't give up a controlling relationship like you had with them easily, but we are here to back you up so stand firm and stay calm and neutral. Give them emotions and they can throw them right back at you...calmness is all

Laweaselmys - I hope you stay positive and happy then PIL make you nervous? Any more happy vibes from your mother? My ms is still ugghhh...but shortbread biscuits help ...breakfast is a 2 hour affair to get anything other than horlicks down my neck... And who coined the name morning sickness anyway? Must have been a man more like all day nausea...or morning and evening nausea

Right better go get tea ready...I'll check in to see if you've posted AnAngel

hello. she came. she only stayed for just over an hour. No words were crossed. She didn't come anywhere near me. A successful meeting by my counts. Thank you for thinking of me.

Armadillo well done you! I only wish I had half your strength.

AN like ally says, you should be proud of yourself.

laweaselmys hope the midwife appointment went ok

Angel - Glad your okay

I think you were very brave letting her come round again after last time. But AN gave good advice about how to handle her aggression...perhaps print it out and memorise...

And...monitor your mood for the next few days. How do you feel after contact? How are you with dh/dc? How is your health?...

yes ally i might do that thanks. apart from the fact ive got a tummy bug and lost 5lb since saturday night i think i am ok otherwise. conversation was a bit strained, but tbh I think she got the impression that i wanted to be left alone and she didnt stay very long.

how has everyone elses day been anyway?

Angel...think she will come round less often? How often has she physically abused you since you left home?

Attila!! Your back! How were your hol's?

angel - am so pleased it went ok.

Hi Ally

Back in Britain now.

Hope you and bean are well - I see your Mother has been up to her mad as cut snakes behaviour again. Posting your DVD through the letterbox eh?!. Mad as cut snakes she is. Your Mother would lead a horse to water and watch it drown.

Will catch up on this thread properly when less jetlagged; have only skimmed thus far. Do like the west coast of the US very much but the flight back's a proper job red eye!.

AnAngelWithin - I was appalled to read that your Mother hit you. I'd throw up on her shoes personally.

With best wishes to you all

Attila x

I am struggling again today. Its not been a good weekend despite DH being off all weekend and yesterday.

I just felt really low, even with him here.

I hate feeling like this. WHY? cant I just live my life?

All the memories and thoughts from the past go round and round in my head like a washing machine, stuck on a permanent cycle.
I try and monitor my thoughts. Try and fathom what it is Im saying to myself to bring myself down.

I think perhaps Im thinking about how I dont have any family and how 'that' is all my fault? I tell myself Im incapable of maintaining any close relagtionships with anyone. That is the reason.

I was showing ds some pictures the other day and there was one of my mother and ds said who's that?
Then he asked when we could see his cousin (middle bros little boy who is the same age). The fact is middle bro hasnt spoken to me for two months and has just come back from a holiday. My dad went too and that makes me feel sad and isolated. But then I also recognise I always felt like that anyway.

I also feel really sad about how we moved all the way back here full of excitement about being close to family after 6 years away...and this is how it has ended up.
I had a better relationship with them at a distance of 12000miles.

This morning the anxiety is back with avengence, I feel sick with it.

I dont understand how I can feel angry for other people on here and dish out advice but can not seem to take it on board myself.

Im back to thinking about seeing my mother this morning.
I just feel like the guilt is unbearable. The feeling of not having a family is unbearable, and yet I know rationally even if I did see her I could not have any kind of real relationship with her. Its just not possible. So I am stuck.
Stuck between crushing guilt, feelings of panic and loss.

Will I ever be able to just move on with my life?

It's normal to want a family and it's normal to feel 'why me'. But the family you want is an ideal and it's hard to reconcile that to the one you have (you in general sense).

I can't come to terms with the idea that I was treated that badly and still am. I can only see part of it thru others eyes - by how appalling dp/MIL/friends see it so I haven't got to that stage yet. It's easy to concentrate on the practical stuff and ignore the other side until there is no practical stuff to concentrate on.

You have been programmed for most your life so to break free from that, as one of my close friends tells me, leaves you with no framework to judge things by and live your life by and you end up feeling lost with no idea how to build a new one.

Creating new structure and thought patterns though is the hard one. Think of what kind of person you want to be - confident maybe, free from anxiety, - what do these people do to achieve that? What can you take from the way they behave?

you are capable of forming close relationships - look at your dp and your ds. They are close relationships.

Meditation is one thing I find helps, just to get a break from the whirring in the head sometimes.

Are you going for councilling?

sorry that was more rambling than anything useful.

Smithfield, I'm sorry you are feeling so bad.

Is it those people in your family who you want or just a family? Do you miss them for the people they are? Is there any chance they could change? Would it work if you had contact on your terms with a set of conditions?

If you miss them for them and think they could change and treat you how you want to be treated then those would be reasons for deciding to see them.

If you don't feel anything for them but feel alone without a family and feel the need for a family then can you build on your other relationships and make new ones to get what you need from other people? Maybe you can't recreate all of what it is to have a family and will have to accept that you must have some loss and grieving.

Is it worse or better since you stopped contact? Do you need to give it a bit longer in case it is worse before it is better? What if you gave yourself a break from worrying about whether it is the right decision and left it for a set period of time to see how you feel then?

Do you feel pressured one way or the other? By who? It is your decision.

I know all I've done is typed a load of questions! Thinking of the answers could help focus your thoughts (?).

I feel weird today, not awful, just weird.

It is something to do with the therapy session yesterday. There is nothing I can point to which Therapist said/did that was 'bad' but I just get the feeling (which could easily be paranoia) that he doesn't want to hear me say anything positive. I feel he 'likes' me more and is more interested in me the worse I feel. I thought he would be pleased that his work on me is having amazing results but he doesn't seem very excited. I can't believe he would be so callous that he would be thinking if I'm 'cured' he won't get my money anymore. He must care about what he does to do it and be so good at it. The thought that he might not care about me much or might even dislike me is uncomfortable.

I sometimes feel I don't really need to go anymore, which is good, but the thought of leaving is horrible! Nobody else makes me feel so reassured, comforted, listened to and respected. Without this now I would feel a gap in my life! I have always had a feeling of there being a gap in my life/in me that I can't fill - therapist would say this is to do with the adoption and neglectful parents but I feel like Therapist is partly filling this gap. Is this wrong? Cutting off from anyone who I feel a connection with hurts me a lot, like it 'reminds' me, but how can it? I don't remember leaving my mother, temporary foster parents etc. Am I talking utter bollocks and just thinking too much?

I just feel scared and lonely at the thought of ever leaving therapy. I don't know that there is all that much left to talk about there though!

Hi Smithfield (((hugs)))
I hope you are feeling better.
You do not have anything to feel guilty about.
Stop it.
You have a family, Smithfield. Your DH and children are enough--yes good enough.
Please believe me. More than enough actually.

Extended family existing in domestic harmonic bliss is a fantasy that probably very very rarely works out in reality. For those that have the fantasy, good for you...but really-could you consider that what you want may be unattainable? Yes, from your post. So then what? Why keep riding that horse? That horse is dead. Concentrate on what you do have, ok?

Make a NEW anything to replace your old pain. Until there is something (positive) to replace it, it probably will not go away...or something negative will jump back onto the spot. Positives must exist to push out the negatives and keep them out. And you can create your own positives-even if it is just baking cookies.
I am trying to replace my mind's junk history reel with something else. I know it is not easy.

Got to go...((((hugs again)))))

AN - no one can know but you on what your therapist is like, but it can be hard trusting your feelings and emotions when you have spent so long being taught how to hide them.

So try to think calmly and logically about your therapists reactions.

How does he react to negative news? Is it in the same way as the positive? Is it just him trying to be neutral or do you see a difference between the two?

Do you feel he shouldn't be happy for your positive news, do you feel that you should be always negative to justify your need to see therapist (not that there is any need)?

Are you looking at him and expecting the reaction to your news that your parents would have given? Do you expect him to be not that pleased about it?

Can you ask him about it? See what he says? What he feels about his reactions?

Talking to a therapist is an emotional thing, and you will form a connection with them if they 'click' with you and they need to for them to be any use. What you are feeling - fear of leaving therapy, fear of feeling abandoned are all normal behaviours.

Talk to your therapist about these - they will be used to it, expecting it even.

toomany- That is such good advice thankyou.
I think in essence you are saying the same as Armadillo. I need new structure.

Ive been thinking about this a lot lately. Its as though Im addicted to the negatives. Addicted to my family, is this co-dependence? Am I like a junkie who needs a fix? Is it that Im addicted to the victim role and playing persecutor instead sends me into some kind of meltdown.

Ive been reading about self soothing techniques (yep baking cookies!) and I realise things I use now and have used in the past to self soothe have been negative/detrimental as well and so just exacerbate the bad/negative feelings I have about myself

I do feel like Im having some kind of delayed reaction to cutting off from them and this seems to have been triggered by the phonecall.

Its also just occurred to me that perhaps the fact myself and MIL aren't communicating at all currently is another trigger. Im not saying that an argument with her and her cutting me off warrants a panic attack but maybe I am seeing her as my own mother and how she would cut me off as a child if I went against her.

Guess Im back to abandonment again That old chesnut.

AN- I dont miss my mother (the real one). I did miss my dad 'a lot' at first, but then I started to see him differently, like the veil was being lifted. That was quite a shock for me and now Im not sure wether I miss him or not.
I feel like Im always chasing my father, waiting for him to notice or approve of me.

To see them would be me being the dutiful daughter, and allowing them to see dd and ds. At the same time alleviating my guilt (my misplaced guilt?)

At the same time my siblings are all 'playing' at happy families and I feel (rightly or wrongly) out in the cold.

I feel like Im waffling now and losing my thread, if there was any. DH is out tonight so I may come back later as I feel Im at least doing something positive by offloading this stuff rather than bottling it all up and stuffing it down and then picking up the phone I guess, trying to get my next hit.

I guess even maybe Im afraid if you strip it all away and its just me out here on my own with no-one else to blame (no more victim) its unchartered territory and maybe I end up being everything they've led me to believe I am. Which isnt much.

smithfield - you have been brainwashed over years. It's not addiction so much as not knowing any other way to function, to make sense of the world.

To create something that people spend their childhood's creating takes time.

It's scary being out there on your own, not knowing who you are or how to function within the world. But it will come, all of it, and it will be better than before. And it will be you, that special individual, that person like no else - you just have to discover exactly who that is. And I'll bet ya everything I have that they'll be worth knowing

Smithfield, so it sounds like you are fairly clear that you don't want contact with your parents for who they are and you would be doing it for them, not for you, because you feel guilty about hurting them. (Have they shown any guilt for hurting you?). Would you feel crap after a visit with them? If you visited then came back and felt 'messed up' for a few days and were not as good a mother and wife because of it, then visiting would be a bad thing (like putting your parents needs in front of yours and in front of your DC's and DH's), because the most important people are your DCs and DH. They are the ones who treat you properly and are the most deserving of your attention. It is interesting what you say about if you don't have your parents in your life giving you grief then you feel you have no excuse ready for if you feel you aren't doing well enough. (I used to do a better job at work when I was feeling a bit ill because I felt I had an excuse for being less than perfect so I was more relaxed!) You will do well enough 'on your own'! You can! You must try not to have mega high standards for yourself though, just use the same standards you judge your friends by. I really agree with what TMSB said about replacing the gap from not thinking about your parents so much with something new and positive.

Armadillo, I definitely think Therapist reacts more to negative things I say more than to positive, but I think he sometimes distrusts positive things I say because I have sometimes tried to put a positive spin on things in order to deny the feelings I don't want to face. He thinks if I go straight from feeling awful about something to feeling ok too quickly then I have missed out feeling and releasing anger in between so it will still be inside me. A few weeks ago I was crying about the thought of being in my parents' house again and then yesterday I was talking about how positively I coped with being there. Maybe I can't blame him for being a bit sceptical. He did say that it was good that DH went with me and good that I focussed on the children rather than my parents. He said that it was good to feel I had some control by visiting them on my terms. So he did say some positive things. And when we were talking about 'good enough parenting' he said I should have faith in my own judgement because I am doing alright. I do feel in a vulnerable position like you say, because for him to do a good job I had to open up to him and trust him, so I'm glad you don't seem to think I've been stupid to 'let down my guard'. And I do feel I have to come out with more negativity so that I can keep going to see him. I'm scared I can't cope without him even if I feel I've sorted out my problems. You are right, this is something I should talk to him about!

Acinonyx, remember on one of your threads we talked about it being difficult knowing when to be 'hard' with the DCs and when to be 'soft'? - I was saying to Therapist about how my DCs seem to go crazy about every little thing and how do I know which things to get them to control themselves/distract themselves over because it is trivial and which things to let them express themselves more about because I don't want them to turn out repressed like me. If they go wild over every little thing how are they going to get through life? On the other hand I can't help feeling like making them control themselves at all is bad because I was made to control myself SO much. Therapist said I should find a balance in between the two extremes and when I said how do I know which things to let them express about he said "You Know!" At first I thought he was being unhelpful because if "I knew" I wouldn't be asking him! But his point was that deep down I do know, I just have to trust my own judgement and instincts - something I find really hard to do. I've been denying and blocking my feelings for so long. I suppose my family 'taught' me to distrust my feelings by acting like the things I felt so bad about where just normal. I still got the feeling he thought I was being bloody stupid though if I didn't "just know".

And Smithfield-
I am reading Adult Children of Alcoholics Syndrome (A step-by-step guide to discovery and recovery) by Wayne Kritsberg
Very interesting.
"Rigidity, Silence, Denial and Isolation-the four 'rules' of the alcoholic family."

If alcoholism existed in your parents or even grandparents (and not parents) this book is recommended because the family dynamic pretty much is abandoning the children (their right to love and protection and emotional existence). The parents who are not alcoholics but were raised by them continue the abandonment dynamic because they don't know what else to do (accidental parenting). This book helps to see that things do not have to continue to that form-change for the present generation which will help the next generation.

And again-please give a look at "Parenting from the Inside Out" by Daniel Siegel and Mary Hartzel. Can I send you a copy? I feel that strongly about this book. If what "Toxic Parents" is - help about the past, this book is about help for the future.

Take care, Smithfield. Design a quilt for yourself this evening, even if you never make it.