"But we took you to stately homes" - Part 4

[oneplusone]

Can't beleive we're onto part 4, although i can't see this thread ever dying.

I was just reading through past posts to try and catch up on the months i have missed and something somebody said has triggered something for me. I know my mother didn't bond with me or love me and i think part of the reason why was because she thought i took after my dad whom she hates (although she is too gutless to leave him). I remember when i was young her saying things like my hair was like my dad's but she wouldn't say it an affectionate way, but quite a venomous way and it always made me feel uncomfortable when she said that but i must have been too young to figure out why.

The more i realise about my mother the more i despise and hate her. I remember she used to play hide and seek with me when i was very young, about 3. Only she would 'really' hide in a place i would never be able to find her. I remember crying and feeling completely distressed one time as i thought she had gone and left me alone at home. It was only after i had been crying for some time that she jumped out laughing from her hiding place. What a nasty, cruel, ugly piece of work and she parades around looking as if butter wouldn't melt and she has a lot of people fooled including my 2 sisters. I know my dad can see her for what she is which is why she hates him and i can see her true colours too which is why i hate her.

I know inside she is deeply insecure, lacks intelligence, strength and integrity. I have witnessed her lie, manipulate and cheat to get what she wants and the people to whom she lies and those who she manipulates are us, her own family. I just can't beleive my sisters cannot see through her, they are totally blind and deaf to her true character and have completely fallen for the victim role she has carved out for herself.

Cutting off my parents was the best thing i ever did and i have realised i need to set some boundaries with my sisters, my last remaining friend and even DH. How to do that is another thing, something completely new to me.

oneplusone- Have you thought of the possibility that it might be the other way around? That you anger at your parents is blocking your feelings of guilt and shame you would have felt 'as a child'.
Maybe what you feel with DH and sisters is more authentic?
Just a thought?

((((((Pages}}}}}}} your back been a looooonnnnggggg time...and give yourself a break woman...honestly, i last looked early this week when it was 40 odd posts and now its 101!!! And the last thread was 1000...so you have permission not to spend a month catching up...

Thanks for congrats very excited this time round, and not told family...not sure if I will...I'm thinking 'not' at the moment.

Your mother's 'village elder' comment and joining the quakers had me rofl...that first comment could be on a par with my mothers 'flogged to death' comment for funniness...strange how they head for religion makes them more saintly than us heathens I suppose.

Confused about relationship or no? God yes. Keep wondering if a bit of contact would be okay. But give my mother an inch and she will take a mile. I don't need that hard slog in my life of always trying to keep to the correct line...not responding in the old way, not constantly fighting her emotional blackmail, or her aggression when she does not get her own way...its like a petulant child...and I have one with another on the way...(not that dd is petulant she's been brought up well ). So contact with your mum...my dh says past behaviour is a good indicator of future behaviour. So given your mother still cannot acknowledge her unempathetic abusive role in your childhood, the fact she is now sainted so therefore is on the moral dungheap highground, do you think you can have any sort of 'good enough' relationship with her? That is a bit of a leading question...oops! You can't say you have not tried Pages, you have, you have had the 'perfect' confrontation with her, you have written to her, your brother has written to her...I think you have to just accept she is not going to acknowledge what has happened. And if that is a case, can you have a relationship with the woman she is now? Without the acknowledgement? Its a toughie perhaps brainstorm why you want to go back...guilt? sadness of what you could have?

Whatever happens we'll be here

allyxxx

Pages, could you peep at Electra's post on this thread? She has been dx with BPD and I thought with your experience you could offer some thoughts/advice? She has not been on since, could be down to a really unhelpful link I posted but hoping she's still reading!

Smithfield, your post on wed 9.23 was quite horrific to read...such coldness from your mother, not understanding what she was saying and not daring to ask again, let alone running screaming after your daddy, that made me cry...and you were just a tiny child. Why should you honestly go back to all that? She cannot ever ever do anything to change what she has done. The only thing she can do now, is surely, try to change for the better to be allowed a relationship with you? How does she deserve any contact with you at all after what you wrote? The impact she still has on you today...that wasn't from one incident in your childhood, that was from daily incidents...

I feel you have summed up your panic in the mornings quite well...if that feels right what you put, that is it...well done As for curling up...foetal position...childlike. So what can you say to yourself to come back to adult again?

So how is it now? Do you still feel the panic now you have found a possible cause? And if you have already said...sorry not had time to read all the posts...this thread makes my head spin the speed it travels...

Have only skimmed! I'm very sorry.

OnePlusOne - have a similar feeling myself sometimes. I think it's because I can be rational and say, well that wasn't my fault because I was a child, and they still treat me as though I am a child, but that's not my fault. But with your DP and his sisters, you can feel guilty about it because you're not a child anymore and should be able to control/handle it better? As opposed to guilty because you did something to deserve it.

I'm not sure if that makes sense.

Somebody mentioned something earlier in the thread about ingrained responses, and having a fascination with free will. I definately have a fascination with free will. I did a degree in philosophy I was so obsessed, in my first year I discover Sartre and existentialism and it has never left me. Essentially he just said that we are all totally utterly free, we think we have learned behaviors from our parents but it's actually totally within our free will to ignore them, and do what is best. It's just very very hard to do so.

Really I think that this is what all of us are trying to do. We are trying to get past all of this programming that tells us because we were the victim of this we will be bad parents, or that we must stay in this role forever. When really, we don't. We all know this, and are trying very hard to get to that place where we're living properly freely. Which doesn't mean we won't cock up occasionally, but if we were free of this constant line of consequence from the past, then every mistake doesn't have to dredge up huge amounts of baggage and history.

Wondered if any of you could add to this thread here

If you get a moment

It might sound odd, but the above gives me great strength to rise above a lot of the time. Some people find the idea of total freedom so depressing but I love it. When something my mother is doing is winding me up, it helps me step back and be neutral and just sing in my head "I am FREEEEEEEE" that sounds totally nutty. But it does. It helps me remind myself that she may have done things I certain way but I don't. She might not want me to do something/want me to do something else but I don't have to, my behaviour around her might be snappy and on edge (and sometimes just like hers) but I am freeeeeeeeeee because I'm not like this with anybody else. Ever. I will never be. I am determined.

So. Now I've outed myself as being really weird. Anybody else they've got a tactic they use to distract/distance themselves?

Laweaselmys - mine used to be

'I'm an ADULT I'm an ADULT I'm an ADULT'...and repeat

How are you doing btw? I've seen midwife, got shared care with consultant due to pre eclampsia last time...so feeling v nurtured and looked after . They will be taking extra care of you too I imagine as a first timer, I'm still waiting for baby to move but I know in my head that is not until at least week 16 Hope your mother isn't on your case? She should be supporting and nurturing you...

LaWeasel/Ally, I will try your methods on Sunday . If I feel intimidated in my parents house I will say to myself "Thank God I'm not like you, I'm better than you, I'm stronger than you, I'm free, I'll show you how parenting should be done"

Ally - It has lessened over the last few days. Getting the Dcs to come in bed with me has helped. Im finding they distract me from it and Its completely opposite from how my mother would do things, so not necessarily 'natural' for me either. But I've found I like it

Im glad your feeling nurtured and taken care of thats really important right now. When will you tell dd do you think?

AN- Good luck for Sunday - May the force (of this thread) be with you!

Wanted you all to know overall Im feeling better. I went to see a new therapist last night. I set up 3 appointments with three different people, but I 'really' liked the lady I saw last night. Have a really good feeling about her. So Im going to go with my gut.

I realise NOW that maybe the therapist I had before was wrong for me. I just had an odd feeling with her, I felt judged a couple of times. I also found it hard she hadnt had children so I didnt trust that she quite 'got' some of my issues.

Anyway- I think that the terrible time Ive been going through emotionally has also brought a bit of a breakthrough with it.
I feel like Im finally ready to stop blaming myself. I realise now that is what I have always done. This in turn causes the depression.
This is my ingrained 'trait' if you like.
It is also what keeps me emotionally attatched to my mother.

And yes I do believe in free will but I think you have to bring unconcious traits forward into your concious mind first.
The proof of this for me is I keep having realisation after realisation recently. You cant change what you dont 'know' or dont 'recognise'.

hi smithfield, glad you're feeling better and good luck with the new therapist. Also, even if she 'feels' right at the moment, if she later on turns out not to be quite right then don't be afraid to look for another one. I think I'm going to have to do that, the one i have been seeing has not turned out to be what i thought she would be so i am searching again.

Thanks also for your post to me earlier. I have been thinking about it all day and you have helped possibly in a way you didn't intend! I think my feelings of guilt and shame cannot be authentic as why should I feel any guilt and shame? It was my sisters who bullied me and my DH who abused me and they should feel guilty and ashamed about how they treated me. I should feel angry at how they treated me and just clarifying this in my mind has helped me 'reach' a bit of my anger. I think i need to focus on the things they did that really hurt and upset me and that will allow me to feel my anger.

Really good advice everyone, thanks. I think you are all absolutely right. I am going to be away for a week so will pop back on when I get back, but am not going to write or send anything in the meantime until I have decided what direction I want to go in. I may not send anything at all. It may be that I just have to let her go completely after all, in which case some real grieving will start.

oneplusone- Also you still have an ongoing relationship with sisters and DH, so maybe you didnt feel safe to 'feel' your anger.

Smithfield, really good news about finding a new therapist , and that you are not feeling as bad as the other day. It does sound like one of those bad and difficult phases of your therapy which you have to get through before another bit of enlightenment which you are starting to have (not sure if I'm making sense). I used to think it gets really bad then gets better but now I think there may be several phases of bad then better.

Thanks about Sunday. Another thing I will remind myself is "I am not being stupid to think what happened wasn't normal, the Stately Homes Girls don't think I'm being stupid".

AN - Definately NOT NORMAL. I'll be thinking of you tomorrow and wishing you the strength to stand up for yourself...we're all behind you...just pretend we are there listening and urging you on

And here is a hug for tomorrow ((((((AN))))))

Perhaps come on here after and disect what happened to stop it festering

Another bump for this thread

Smithfield, so good you have a therapist you click with and you have done something to resolve your morning anxiety. How were you this morning? Will tell dd probably when bump shows/go for 20 wk scan (bump actually starting to show now at 9 wks so 20 wk scan then )

Pages, have a good week, will look out for your post whatever you decide will be best for you

Sandcastles - nice to hear from you again...often thought of you and others that often posted

Oneplusone- good you recognise therapist isn't right...your very strong to change...look at me, 4 yrs with wrong therapist trying to convince myself he was right for me parental training for you...good luck with your search!

Will come on soon and say hello to all newbies

HAving bad day.

I want my mum to tell me everything's alright.

They're back from holiday for first time since I told them we would be leaving the house and she wants to talk to me about it apparently.

I am scared and I want someone to look after me and tell me it's going to be ok. I feel like a child and want a parent to look after me. I want someone to cuddle and protect me.

DP at work all day.

Armadillo, Good luck when you talk to your mum. It is natural to be scared and it's ok. Can't promise it will all be ok, just that we are all on your side and here to 'listen' to whatever you want to say about what happens. Does she want to see you today? Can you put her off until DP is with you?

TheAmadillo, can you not put her off until dp is there? She will probably behave better if he is around? You don't have to agree to this you know? It is your decision to move out, nothing to do with her. Anything she want's to say can be said to the two responsible adults ie you AND dp. Seriously, tell her today is not going to be convenient afterall and YOU pick a time that you and dp will be around. Most likely she will then try and rearrange the day to suit her (and get her control back).

If you cannot avoid seeing her. Try not agreeing to anything. ie

'That's interesting you think that'

'Well I will have to discuss with dp first, and then we will decide what to do'

'This discussion is not getting anywhere, lets leave it for now and we will discuss things next week when dp is here to hear this'

'It's interesting you feel that way, you sound quite upset, however we have decided on this course and will still be going ahead with moving out'

'I'm not willing to discuss this issue any further, so either change the subject or leave' (for the brave moment )

Let us know how things go, you know we are behind you, you did not imagine how things were with your mother. I felt reading your first posts on your other thread that you would not even dare to go for independance...and you have! Its amazing what you are doing, for you, ds and dp, you can DO THIS! You are breaking free and the more she senses you slipping out of her grasp, the harder she will fight to keep you under her control...her fighting back shows how strong YOU ARE! Keep to your position, DON'T BACK DOWN...and if you do it happens...you can always change your mind...there is no law against it...only te right to do what is best for you and your family (ds, dp).

((((((amadillo))))))

thank you guys.

Had to run off and look after ds.

He is such a good boy. He has been an angel today.

Thanks for reminding me what I have done so far. I am seeing her on mon. Dp will be at work unfortunately. I have managed to make it a short visit.

I think I've just got myself all worked up plus PMT and today is not good. Plus I visited my auntie last week and it just brought ho meto me that I have no family support at all.

Thanks for your support. I'm using to just following what my mum says. BUt to stand up and follow my own ideas is aa bit unusual.

I will practice those responses. Ta

Why can't I just have a normal family.

I think you are worked up for a reason . How do you feel about reorganising visit so dp is there? Does she behave differently around him? Remember, he is your support...

What happened with aunt?

aunt is like my mum, can be worse. Just making comments all day and telling me how lucky I was that mum is letting me leave the house etc.

Then one of her dogs bit ds. Dog got rewarded (picked up and cuddled cos a bit 'overexcited').

Dp says not to let ds there again cos of dogs. Auntie will be pressuring me soon cos she wants ds to stay overnight.

Also ds told off for a lot of things that weren't him being naughty and told horrible things. And basically brought home to me how little they think of me, how they treat my ds showed how badly they've always treated me (they and my mum woudl say they spoil him - if that's spoiling I'd hate to see them treat him badly).

I can't reorganise thing with mum cos they are looking after ds for me that day so I can get house sorted - cleared out so I can move.

HAving dp there often makes stuff worse because it winds her up. I need to do this myself tbh. As much as I hate it and worry about it I need to be able to do it. TO show myself I can.

Also having told some friends and dp's family what's happening has got some reactions I didn't expect. That has stirred stuff up (they can't believe I am getting nothing from the house and they are shocked about exactly how bad this all is). Dp finds it all very upsetting. So emotions all in air at mo.

Armidillo- '...and telling me how lucky I was that mum is letting me leave the house etc.'

How about how lucky 'your' mother is to have had someone to pay mortgage on 'HER' asset!!grrrrrr.

When I first got back from oz three years ago my dad let us rent his house. He generously said we could stay there paying 'his' mortgage as long as we liked.

I did feel grateful that we had somewhere to go when we got back, but I started to do this when he made a fuss about us changing anything (bill wise) into our name. He got defensive, evasive and then angry so I backed off.
The fact is though we were unable to build up any kind of credit history because of this, but my dad wasnt concerned with this. Part of the control, keep me dependant etc.

It was painful to come to the realisation that he did what he did because it suited 'him'.
1)He wanted to keep a credit rating for himself at that house.
2)He wanted to move into London and so would have rented it anyway so we were ideal tenants as trustworthy ones.
3)He was in the middle of divorcing my mum and wanted all dc's on 'his' side and under 'his' control- continual one-upmanship.
4)He wanted me to be dependant on him. In fact I think 'in a way' he was saying see how I can provide for you better than your own DH.

The point is he was infact using me. I took it as a token of his love and affection. My father (the father I wanted him to be) was generous and giving. In reality he is a cold hard business man who puts his needs first ALWAYS.

The reason I write this Armadillo is because I want you to see your mother on Monday and be under no ILLUSION about who she really is.

You said in your earlier post you felt you wanted your mum. We all do, but what we yearn for is an illusion of them not reality.

Go and see her with a 'very clear' view that you are on equal footing (well actually not equal because she SHOULD infact be giving you something from the house IMO)
But she will of course play victim and have an 'After all we've done for you stance'.

DO NOT FEEL GUILTY!

Because remember - ITS ABSOLUTE TOSH!.

Ally is right you have come so far...you should be incredibly proud. You are right to be doing this and keep telling yourself that (because you will question yourself, that is inevitable).

Good luck for Monday ((((hug))))

PS would you consider not taking ds to aunties anymore or for VERY short visits only?

AN - how'd it go today?

TheAmadillo- second what Smithfield said. Your aunt sounds an absolute peach. You know what I'm seeing? Harry Potter, Aunt Marge with her dog Rippy-Poos... I can see why you feel like you've been trapped with an aunt like that agreeing with your mother. Suggest you stand (I know its asking more of you ) up to her too and say no to ds staying over!! Esp with dodgy dog, no one (normal) would expect you to let a child stay with a dog like that unless they were kept locked up. Sounds like you are doing the right thing seeing your mother alone...except you won't be...you'll have us all tucked away in your head urging you on

Just got to add your aunts comment re mother letting you leave the house...good god...are you all under house arrest??!?! I know these things may seem normal because you have been hearing it all your life...but your mother and aunt really take the biscuit...You keep fighting your corner...and don't engage in arguments or discussions on moving house...maintain neutral position...its non-negotiable...you have EVERY right to live where you and dp and ds want to be! You are independant human beings...I'll be thinking of you tomorrow...thinking solidarity your way

We are back from parental visit. I feel ok although sometimes after these things I feel different the next day or the day after that.

My overwhelming feeling at the moment is I am so grateful I have got my DCs and DH and my life and I am relieved to be back in my house. I am feeling the contrast between the lack of connection between my parents and between them and me and the emotional sterility of their house versus the connection I do feel between me and DH and me and the DCs and how 'real' and 'warmer' my life in my home and town feels.

The visit really seems to have shown me what I have got and reminded me to appreciate it.

I feel quite impressed with myself to have 'achieved' the life I have made for myself despite the start I had with my family!

The DCs really enjoyed their day and I really enjoyed watching them enjoy it (this must prove that I feel the right things for them?). My parents did seem happy to be near my DCs and seemed to 'light up'! and this makes me feel something for them, I'm not sure what, but there is unmistakeably a feeling there! (despite not really wanting to feel this!).

If they can make my children happy then they are worth something. All they did was cook for them and talk to them a bit (not much, but a bit), and smile at them and attempt to play with them to a limited extent but the important thing is that I could feel 'something', some kind of warmth they had for my DCs. Maybe I am a bit sad that I cling to the smallest feeling of warmth that I get from them and feel really grateful, but for now, today, it is making me feel ok.

I can see that I am doing what I did with my Bro, blanking out what is in my head about how they used to be during childhood and seeing them as separate people who I have just met now (it is a strategy for coping with the present that seems to work for me), and this hinders me from dealing with the anger about the past. I wonder if there is a way I could spend some of my time working on dealing with the anger but at the same time maintaining my 'new' relationships with parents and brother where I have infrequent contact and just take each encounter at face value, looking at what I can get out of it rather than feeling bad about what I can't. Is that really 'fucked up'?