"But we took you to stately homes" - Part 4

[oneplusone]

Can't beleive we're onto part 4, although i can't see this thread ever dying.

I was just reading through past posts to try and catch up on the months i have missed and something somebody said has triggered something for me. I know my mother didn't bond with me or love me and i think part of the reason why was because she thought i took after my dad whom she hates (although she is too gutless to leave him). I remember when i was young her saying things like my hair was like my dad's but she wouldn't say it an affectionate way, but quite a venomous way and it always made me feel uncomfortable when she said that but i must have been too young to figure out why.

The more i realise about my mother the more i despise and hate her. I remember she used to play hide and seek with me when i was very young, about 3. Only she would 'really' hide in a place i would never be able to find her. I remember crying and feeling completely distressed one time as i thought she had gone and left me alone at home. It was only after i had been crying for some time that she jumped out laughing from her hiding place. What a nasty, cruel, ugly piece of work and she parades around looking as if butter wouldn't melt and she has a lot of people fooled including my 2 sisters. I know my dad can see her for what she is which is why she hates him and i can see her true colours too which is why i hate her.

I know inside she is deeply insecure, lacks intelligence, strength and integrity. I have witnessed her lie, manipulate and cheat to get what she wants and the people to whom she lies and those who she manipulates are us, her own family. I just can't beleive my sisters cannot see through her, they are totally blind and deaf to her true character and have completely fallen for the victim role she has carved out for herself.

Cutting off my parents was the best thing i ever did and i have realised i need to set some boundaries with my sisters, my last remaining friend and even DH. How to do that is another thing, something completely new to me.

OnePlusOne, would you not have loved it if that teacher though had pulled you aside and asked you why exactly you had said what you said, and maybe had managed to get you to open up about what happened to you at home, so that she could have helped you?

I wonder if anyone else relates to this. I have a life-long obsession with the nature of free will and responsibility. To what extent is someone truly responsible for their actions? To what extent do we have free will of any kind? I have spent my life investigating this one way or another - it's even part of my area of research now.

I consider my amom to have had diminished responsibility but I don't supose I will ever really know how much choice or control she really had. My bmom similar.

And myself? I feel the same kind of impulses as a parent and it shocks me. How is it possible that I would have the urge to repeat what was done to me? I control it - but sometimes it is a tremendous effort. It is as though I have been poisoned. Sometimes when dd is being difficult I feel myself go fantastically cold and know that if I let go for an instant I would replay my mother's behaviour (although that was not prompted by my behaviour since I spent my life trying not to provoke her).

In fact I hardly raise my voice to dd - never shout. Whenever I see her face cloud over it is as if I am watching my own childhood grief all over again and I tend to agree/cave/do anything to remove it. I am realising that she has to have boudaries and I must accept that 'look' without panicking - as though it signified a future life-long misery.

I wish I could just be a more relaxed parent who doesn't overthink everything. One who sometimes gets a little bit cross without crucifying self over it.

I'm also apalled to find myself totally oversensitive to feeling rejected by dd. If she, in her childish way (at 3), seems cold to me, it is so overwhelming I could practically faint.

Acting - I guess part of you wants to talk about it on Sunday but part of you is scared. It's amazing how scary talking to your parents can be!

more, OMG, if that teacher had managed to get out of me what had happened at home, how differently my life would have turned out. I had never even considered such a possibility. I think i need some time to take in what you have said, it has really taken me aback to think that somebody could actually have stopped what was happening and changed my life completely.

I have always blamed my mother for not seeking help for us. I am sure my dad suffered some sort of mental breakdown which led him to be abusive. My mother could have sought help from so many avenues but she chose to keep her mouth shut and her head firmly buried in the sand. That's why i blame her most of all, she was just a coward, at least my dad had an 'excuse' if not a valid reason for his abuse behaviour.

Acinonx "How is it possible that I would have the urge to repeat what was done to me?". If you read Alice Miller, she explains exactly how and why this happens.

AN, i can relate to feeling scared. But i feel (although less so now) scared of my sisters, of telling them how i really feel, of telling them how much they have hurt and upset me. I don't know why. I am 5 and 8 years older than them respectively, yet they scare me more than my parents. I need to go away and think about this.

I think the "blame" ultimately lies with the one that hurts a child. However I also think that so many adults enter this child's world, and the child some times deliberately or subconsciously tries to get their attention in one way or another because the child feels that he/she can trust that particular adult.
In some cases these adults picks up on a deeper problem and help the child, instead of as was the case in your situation having taken it personally and just see that child as unsaveable/evil. Hope this makes sense.

Hello again, I feel calmer now

So many posts recently!

More, you are right about we can't always choose not to listen to ingrained voices just because we know we don't agree with them. We have to find ways to unlearn it. And I find it the same when I have a bit of contact with family and at first think I will just carry on as normal after, then a day or two later I become 'unbalanced'.

Sassymuse/YouCannotBeSerious - More mothers who want to make her daughter feel dependant on her and useless just so SHE can feel needed. There seem to be lots written about on here. Don't let her mess with your head and make you feel you aren't good enough without her. I just can't comprehend how people who are supposed to love their daughters try to mess up their heads for their own gain.

Just3 - I relate to how you only want a superficial relationship with your mum even though she treats you better than she used to and has apologised. I feel that even if my parents apologised and tried to do/say the right things now I just don't want to have a proper parent-daughter relationship with them now. When they betrayed your trust they broke the relationship and broke part of you and I personally feel that in my case that can't be mended and I don't want to get hurt trying. I understand what you said about not liking your mum saying if it hadn't been for you she would have driven off a cliff. My brother said if it hadn't been for me during his first year in prison he would have killed himself. But I don't want that level of responsibility and pressure! It must be worse if it is your mum - the one who is supposed to look after YOU, and you are expected to stop her killing herself!

Acinonyx, you said you haven't been on here before because you don't like thinking about it, but I think you are SO right that if you want to make sure you don't make the same parenting mistakes your parents made you MUST think about it! If you have to feel worse and be more moody with your loved ones before you feel better (from therapy/MN/talking to friends/writing/reading eg Alice Miller) then just know that you are doing it for long term gain for your children and yourself. If I didn't feel I was moving forward AT ALL I would change therapist, but I feel like it isn't just one phase of badness before it gets better, I feel like I'm having several phases of bad then good, conflict then clarity. YOU shouldn't feel guilty if the relationship doesn't work well between you and BParents/you and AParents! This is THEIR responsibility, they are the parents. I keep reading things on here which make me uncomfortable about my own parenting. I think I am a bit of a Jekyll and Hyde with my children. One minute I am trying hard to do all the right things, the next minute it all gets too much and I become ShoutyMummy or WithdrawnMummy telling them to go away and leave me alone. I know what the right way to do it is but I'm not sure it comes naturally yet and won't until I feel better inside and have worked out all my issues. At the moment, doing the right thing seems really hard work.

Smithfield, when I was in the worst grip of my depression I used to have that panic about DH 'abandoning' me with the children that you describe. I just couldn't see how I was going to cope. I felt so overwhelmed by everything. You really are going through SHIT by the sound of it . I wish I could say something that would help. Have you done anything about finding a new therapist yet? Your childhood sounds very emotionally neglectful. It is no wonder you are anxious if you never had reassurance. This is why I love my therapist so much, he has a really reassuring and comforting manner and I've never had that from anyone before. Maybe you need one like him. When you are a child and you get abandoned it is very frightening and you are right to be frightened because you really need adults when you are a child. Now we are adults I suppose we don't need to be SO scared of abandonement because we can physically survive if we get abandoned, but it brings back the childhood fear of it which seems to have stayed with us. The question is how to lessen the fear? I don't really know, apart from keeping on saying to yourself I CAN cope without this person if they abandon me and look at evidence of how you can cope from things you have done.

Emma, I think things that happen during childhood have such a big effect because it is when your brain is developing and you are forming your view of the world and yourself. Somebody used the word hardwiring recently. Distorted views of the world from messed up parents get hardwired into your brain while it is building itself. Now we have to put effort into unlearning distorted things. I know what you mean about people having an image of you as confident and happy and successful because you act over all your negative feelings. There are people who think I don't have a care in the world, I'm so good at acting normal. It is a useful skill at times but also can damage you a lot as your unexpressed negative feelings attack your insides, then start to leak out onto people who don't deserve it when under stress, eg your DCs.

OnePlusOne, I feel like you that I have contributed a lot less to my marriage than DH, financially (not confident enough to have a proper career), and emotionally because it is hard to give out positive feelings to other people when you are struggling with all your own negative feelings. I do think it is good to give your DH a break from talking through your problems by using MN/therapist/friends more. I try to save some energy and headspace that is just for DH now where I concentrate on having a laugh with him, enjoying being with him and talking about things other than my family. The responsibility of parenting IS massive, but you are already doing well just by KNOWING this and thinking about the way you do it. I often feel it is too much and the kids drive me mad. I sometimes feel better by thinking I should feel proud to be a mother and proud that I am keeping at it, doing a really hard job. I didn't give MY babies away like my birthmother gave me away. I don't neglect my children like my adoptive parents did (although I DO think I am too withdrawn from them at times and I need to work on it). When I read your post about 'bystander behaviour' (your mum) I can see when I look at someone else's story how bloody WRONG this behaviour is and how angry I have a right to be about my mum. I know she was scared of my GF and my Bro, and scared of causing a scene in front of my dad as well and I know she is emotionally damaged herself but it is STILL wrong not to protect your child when TOLD what is happening. I am protecting my children from even the slightest risk by telling my Bro he can't see them when he comes out of prison (even though I don't feel he is a risk). I am doing this EVEN THOUGH I am scared of him and scared of confrontations and scenes and scared what my parents will think! I am better than her.

Unresolved, you are so right that when people are so messed up themselves they haven't got much left for other people. Lots of you seem to have parents like this as well (me too). It leaves their children feeling really unimportant, just an inconvenience really, more hard work for them which they could do without. It REALLY worries me that this is what I am like with my own DCs and DH. It is SO important that we do resolve our issues so that we can be good mothers. This is why we are all doing the right thing by being in this thread and all the other things we do to try to get better. Don't be ashamed. What happened to you was not your fault and not personal, like Emma said, they wouldn't have been capable with any child.

AN, what an amazing post, you have a real understanding of the issues raised by abusive childhoods.

I am also a Jekyll and Hyde with my DC's. In fact it happened this evening. But, despite it happening, i know i have made progess as I know exactly what caused it. I was playing musical statues downstairs with the DC's. DH was upstairs doing some decorating. Me and the kid went upstairs as it was bedtime, i took one look at DH and all of sudden went berserk at the kids because they wouldn't put on their pj's which happens every night.

All day today i have had thoughts in my head that i hate DH . Because he has, as I've said before, treated me extremely badly in the past and i can feel my blood boiling thinking about the nasty and hurtful things he has said to me. Whenever i mention any of this to him he unsurprisingly gets angry himself and has the 'stately homes' attitude,ie he has done lots of good things including sticking by me through some very difficult times which can't be denied. BUT the good stuff does not mean the bad stuff suddenly becomes acceptable which is what he doesn't seem to understand. The good stuff doesn't mean he was 'entitled' to treat me badly.

Anyway, i realise what i need to do is to acknowledge, express and release the anger i have inside against DH. I have realised that buried feelings never go away, they fester and attack your insides like you say. Not quite sure how to do this at the moment, but i am so pleased to myself that i am able to understand my own behaviour. I realise now just how much i didn't really know myself before. I have got to know myself so much better during this journey, it's like i am discovering who i really am for the first time.

I had to apologise to DD as i really upset her by shouting and she hadn't even been naughty. But i think my body had an instintive reaction when I saw DH, because of the anger i have inside at him which has been unexpressed and as soon as the DC's slighly misbehaved that triggered the anger and i had a go at them.

My behaviour was awful, but it is still a breakthrough for me as i understand exactly what was happening in my subconscious and until now i have been completely and utterly unaware and blind to what drives some of my behaviour and moods. I need to take much more notice of the 'fleeting' thoughts that pass through my mind. I wonder if they are from my subconscious coming into my consciousness, i have always just kind of ignored them before, they are always so fleeting that they are gone before i really have a chance to 'grasp' them and examine them properly.

I have tried to explain what happened today as i know some of you also struggle with your parenting of your DC's and wish you could shout at them less etc. Do you think what happened with me could be happening to you? The thoughts need not necessarily be about your DH, any thoughts where you feel anger about anyone...most likely our parents probably.

OnePlusOne, is what your DH did bad enough in itself for you to leave him or is it the fact that you haven't been able to express it enough and have acknowledgement from him that is the worst thing? Did what HE did trigger memories of feelings of worse things from your childhood? If you split up you could make your life difficult - less financial/emotional support. Less help with the children etc. Don't make a quick decision and regret it. I sometimes think about splitting up, probably once a month, probably coinciding with certain hormone levels or if I'm feeling really extreme because of other reasons, and then feel much better about things a couple of days later. I'm not saying you are the same, just that it should be a really carefully thought out decision in case you end up making things worse for yourself. Would it help to post about what he did?

My triggers are:

• DD bossing DS around or shouting at him or being rough with him/near him - I'm scared she will treat him like my bro treated me so I get anxious, scared, angry and feel like I must get her completely away from him at all costs. I don't even want her to talk to him sometimes.

• DD following me around and constantly demanding and not letting me get on with anything - reminds me of my bro finding me wherever I was and forcing me to do things with him. If I was trying to do my own thing he would stop me by fighting me or putting his hands in my face, fingers up my nose, fingers in my mouth or grabbing my arms and shaking them. I had no personal space and I feel like DD sometimes gives me no space. I feel anxious, I feel a desperate need to escape and run away. He used to make me do things for him all the time whether I wanted to or not eg I had to stroke/tickle his back for ages and ages at a time and he wouldn't let me stop and tried to persuade me to touch him lower and lower down which felt wrong.

• DD wanting constant attention and talking on and on and expecting an answer - I feel angry that I never got much attention and didn't feel listened to yet however much attention I give DD she always wants more and doesn't seem grateful. I feel like I have to give her the attention because I know how it felt to not get any but the amount she wants exhausts me.

• DCs crying about every little thing - I was never allowed to cry and my brother drummed it into me that I was weak and should be disgusted with myself if I ever cried even when he fought me for hours and hit me over and over in the same place until I did cry.

• DCs running around shrieking and being really expressive - it makes me really anxious. I feel I need to control them or something awful will happen. When they are in a frenzy I don't feel in control. I never expressed myself like this, I never expressed myself at all. It feels alien to me and scary what they are doing.

• DCs being upstairs when I am downstairs eg when their friends come to play and the mothers want them all to play upstairs together but then there are crashing sounds, crying etc - I feel anxious because I can't see what is happening. I feel something awful could be happening to them and I don't know about it. I feel I need to know and be in full control. My GF mostly molested me upstairs while my parents were downstairs. My bro often fought me upstairs and if we were too noisy my dad just shouted upstairs to keep the noise down but didn't intervene like I wished he would. The back stroking thing happened upstairs and felt secretive. My bro once put his finger up my bum while I was sat on the top stair. He used to get all his knives out and show me which scared me at the time. He showed me his porn and I took an unhealthy amount of interest in sex at too young an age.

• DD running into our room early in the morning and jumping up and down on our bed and talking a lot - as well as the fact that I'm not a morning person, it feels like I can't escape from her, even when I am trying to sleep. My bro wouldn't let me sleep. He came into my room when I had gone to bed and went on and on at me about why I was crap when I just wanted to go to sleep.

• DH trying to control me in any way

• FIL being physical playing with the children - I must watch him like a hawk, I can't trust any man over a certain age with my children

• DH being dismissive when I speak - reminds me of parents

• Anyone ignoring me when I speak to them

• Anyone making me feel a bit stupid - Bro used to humiliate me by doing what he called 'torture methods' in front of the boys in the street while they laughed. He made me fight his friends while they watched and laughed. He held me down and dribbled in my face and farted in my face. He said things to make me feel stupid about whatever I said and I was scared to speak. I still feel that in a group people will have contempt when I speak and nobody will ever take me seriously. I hate the sound of my voice and think I look and sound stupid.

• Men over a certain age coming anywhere near me

• People calling me weak/inferring I am weak

I type too much. I'm sorry

Well hi everyone. I have not read much of the last thread and none of this but have kept trying to get some time. Things have been so hectic. Am back in need of some virtual hugs.

I haven't been in touch with my mum for months and she stopped sending cards and stuff, even missed DS2's bithday. Haven't heard from sibilngs for 2 years.

I now have a letter from her several months down the line. She still refuses to acknowledge what happened to me, she bangs on about how SHE felt, and how she has got over that and now sees herself as some kind of village elder (her words)and says she has joined the Quakers (does anyone know anything about them?)

She says my way (honesty) is cruel and that LOVE is the answer (she quotes the Beatles).

I have written back saying that she is not a village elder or a native American for that matter, and that the difference between me and her is that my children's feelings mean more to me than life, whereas her children's feelings will always mean less than her own. Haven't sent it yet.

Any thoughts?

PS Ally so pleased about baby, only really caught that in passing, sorry to be so crap. But I need you all!!!!!

Pages- Just wanted to come on and say hello and here's your virtual ((((hug)))).

How do you feel about the letter? What emotions has it brought up for you this time? Anger? Frustration.Try and write it all out.

I do like your response to her. It sums it up in a nutshell really.

Once again though your left with a manipulation, 'village elder'= Im getting old you know= victim.
She is not to old to be wiley enough to evade resonsibility for her own part in all this, YET AGAIN.

Its very frustrating, I know, but I think you know in your heart Pages this woman will never change her stance....no matter what you write back to her.

So I guess what Im saying is you have to dig deep and ask yourself if in all honesty by sending a response you still harbour some hope of making 'her' realise where this is going wrong. That in recieving your resonse she might (just might) have her lightbulb moment?

Yes, Smithfield, I think that would help a lot of people - if they can accept that their families are not going to change and never going to be the way we would have liked them to be. Then you can stop trying (and getting disappointed) and stop caring what they think and concentrate on the other parts of your life. That is really liberating.

It is just hard to do if you so desperately want them still and don't want to face that loss - loss from not having parents who acted like normal parents. It is hard to think of it as loss sometimes because they are still there and still trying to be in your life, but it is a loss that needs to be acknowledged by yourself and grieved before you can feel better. (that's what I think anyway)

AN- I have come to the conclusion that what this journey is (for me anyway)...coming to terms with the fact my parents are what they are, they will never change, and if I were different they would still respond to me essentially the same way. They dont love me. They never have. I can never get what I need from them.

Very easy to write. Looks straightforward in black and white, but emotionally its hard work. You can have conciously made the 'decision' to detach but the subconcious keeps tripping us up!

And yes you are right, it is a loss. A huge tragic loss that has to be felt emotionally to move on. But I think our subconcious need to not let go prevents us from processing that. It cleverly finds ways of stopping us from letting go, and we arent even aware.

Pages, you know my feelings about letters...I wouldn't give her the pleasure of letting her know that she gets to you.

I wouldn't put the ball back in her court. Not replying, IMO gives you the power.

I am sorry to hear you are still having problems, haven't seen your name for a while & hoped that all was better.

I stopped posting on these threads as it seemed to bring it all back. I can't believe I have been estranged from my mother for 16 years. It seems like forever & I sometimes wondered if I ever had a mother at all.

I have just had dd#2 & I have decided that I need to stop there! I love children, but have come to the realisation that I cannot have anymore. I was #3 & not wanted & I am scared that if I have #3, he/she will suffer that same fate, stupid I know...but it has taken me years to realise that this is why I need to stop at 2!

I know that my sister has told mother about dd2, and I have heard nothing,...one more person my mother doesn't give a damn about!

Hi, just wanted to join the new thread.....

Last posted on thread 3, I was due to pay a visit to my Mother in France for a few days and was dreading it.....ironically BMI bumped us of the plane so we flew the next day.....perhaps the Gods were on my side. Visit went ok mainly due to the fact we had a function to go to whilst we were there so only spent a day together!

I still find it very hard to cope with the turmoil of emotions of being desperate to see her, yet treading on damn eggshells all the time.....ho hum

Just want to thank everyone for posting their stories - I find it so helpful to read other peoples experiences - even if it just to know I am not alone

AnAngelWithin, I am really really sorry for your situation! NO ONE shoudl have to tolerate that & you know this.

I am sorry if I come across as blunt, I don't mean to upset you...but you do realise that staying in touch with your mum 'for the sake of nan' is like staying with an abusive partner 'for the sake of the children' don't you?

And what happens when your nan passes? You won't break contact because your mum will be too upset, then there will be someting else, then something else!

It is never going to be easy, there is never going to be a good time, but honestly..how long are you going to let her beat you for? It is domestic violence, just because it is your mum, doesn't make it any less wrong.

Sandcastles- Congratulations on ddno2!

Hi Everyone, I just want to say how pleased I am to have found this thread, it really has given me support and a chance to examine my own relationshp with my DS and see what reactions I have that are tied to what happened in my adolescence.

If I look at it closely I realise that I get angry at really little things sometimes, I guess partly to do with sleep deprivation, but also I stupidly think that my sweet little man is taking advantage of me and my placid nature, something my mother used to do, but that is not the case, he is only a baby fgs. I also get a panicky feeling when he cries, again as I used to do when my mother cried because that meant she was unstable/suicidal, and I am just learning now to put aside that feeling and do the right thing. It's so hard though, I think when you have a really crappy childhood that part of your brain/soul/emotional system remains at that age and it is really easy to switch back to that. I don't know if I am explaining myself properly but I know that for me, when things go wrong in my life, my teenage self takes over and I become unbelievably angry, I retreat into a fantasy world and I binge eat on rubbish food. I have to tell myself to act as the 30 year old I am now and sometimes that doesn't happen for a while.

I also know that my mother will never change, absolutely never. And that I am so much happier in another country, and my relationship with my DH is a lot better here as well.

And just on a lighter note, I hope everyone here has a good weekend!

Thanks for the messages guys, and sorry to have ignored other people's problems but yet again I am short of time.

Her letter made me furious actually. She just sees herself as so superior, but I guess that's what narcissists do.

I think I really did accept for a long time that she was never going to change and felt I had detached from the situation well. It was not what I thought about daily, but I just didn't know what sort of relationship I wanted to have with her, i.e none or superficial. For ages I just did nothing but somehow it didn't feel right. So I had another go at trying to talk to her. I wish now that I hadn't bothered. Her letter was a reponse to mine, I should have said.

I am not going to send my original reply but have drafted a shorter and less angry one. You may be right Sandcastles about not replying and if I was just going to walk away and never speak to her again I would not bother, but I just don't know if that's what I want.

Anyone else feel stuck like this?

Actually Sandcastles, I thought my mother had failed to respond to my letter and was blanking me until yesterday, and strangely that felt quite good. It was like the decision had been taken away from me and I just thought to myself if preserving her image of herself as perfect means more to her than having a relationship with her daughter than stuff her.... but then I got her letter!!

She might feel that way if I don't respond, I certainly feel if I don't respond it helps reinforce her victim position iyswim.

So basically you feel you want some sort of relationship with her?

The question you have to ask yourself is can you have 'any' kind of relationship (whatever shape or form that may take) which isnt at 'your' expense in some way.
The relationship you would have with her would never be based on honesty and so you would have to go back to hiding your feelings (the true pages) from her.

The letter scenario is a prime example of this. You reach out to her, she uses that to assert herself once more. You feel the need to write to her and be emotionally honest, then decide to re-draft in order to 'hide' what you are 'really' feeling.

If you think you could/can handle this without paying for it emotionally then there perhaps could be a way.

Some questions you may then need to answer are; what would that relationship look like? what benefit/bearing would it have/be to you?What boundaries would there need to be?

IMO it 'cant' work, a narcissist MUST have the upper hand someway 'ALWAYs', they SEEK to manipulate and you would need to be incredibly strong not to have this grind you down eventually. I know this because I am the daughter of one myself.

She would always spin you back into her web.

The choice ultimately of course is yours pages and you would be supported here whatever you choose. Just trying to help you with the navigation and hope it goes someway to helping you.

hi justthe3, i understand what you're saying about the abuse meaning you get 'stuck' at a certain age and revert to that whenever something triggers you in your everyday life. DH has often said to me when we have an argument that i behave like a child and i know he's right, i think i revert to my teenage years which is when the arguments with my dad started and took place almost daily. I go back to behaving exactly how i used to during my teenage years and i have sometimes almost managed to 'goad' (is that a real word?!) DH into behaving and reacting to me like my dad used to. It's like i have some inner drive to recreate the arguments from my past, why i don't know as they were awful. Sometimes i used to storm out of the house, crying and desperately unhappy and just wander the streets, crying and alone. I used to, i realise now, secretly hope and pray that my mum would come after me and comfort me and hug me.....but she never did. I was just left alone in my unhappiness by both my parents.

AN, thank you for your ever so wise words of advice. The things DH did are not enough to make me want to leave him. We were going through some very difficult times and I was, at the time, without realising it, totally and completely messed up. I was suffering from undiagnosed PND, general depression because of some terrible health problems I suffered after having DD. I had extremely low or non existent self esteem, loads and loads of suppressed anger which should have been directed at my parents but which i ended up directing at DH when the slightest thing triggered me off. So, this is why i feel i did provoke DH into some if not all of his bad behaviour towards me. He is usually a very reasonable, understanding, kind, generous and patient man...I, on the other hand, before i realised i had serious emotional and mental issues, was a mental case but i had no idea. Like you, i was so used to acting normal that i had even fooled myself that i was 'normal'. I had no idea whatsoever that i had serious issues that i needed to sort out. I was never a person who turned to drug, alcohol etc. I did well at school and university, went on to have a good career for 10 years (although i did have problems at work which i now think were due to my abusive background and low confidence etc) and so to anyone looking at me from the outside i looked like i was really 'together'. All the time though, i was numb inside, i felt nothing, but again i had no idea that my 'feelings' were 'missing' as i had always been that way for as long as i could remember.

I realise now that instead of turning to drugs etc, i turned all my feelings inwards and buried them very very deep, hence why i have suffered from quite severe exzema for many years. Until now i had literally been supressing and not allowing myself to feel every single painful emotion as soon as it arose, but without realising or being conscious of the fact that i was doing this. It was only when i happened to come across a book on eczema that talked about how it may be caused by buried emotions and at the same time i came across the book Toxic Parents that i began to put two and two together (i should really be called twoplustwo not oneplusone!) and began realising that i had a mountain of buried emotions inside me and it was this that was causing my eczema. I read Alice Miller's 'The Body Never Lies' and it confirmed everything i was beginning to realise about myself. That all happened in January 2007 at which point i had not seen my parents for about 6 months, having cut them off on 4 July 2006. Prior to cutting off my parents myself, DH and DD had spent around a year in OZ, doing as smithfield suggests what so many people with toxic parents do, running away from my parents. That year in OZ where there was minimal contact with my parents, we only exchanged occasional emails although at that point i had not cut them off as such, i realise in hindsight gave me the space and distance that i needed to consider my relationship with my parents. I realised that in my heart i didn't love them and ideally would like to cut them off but at that time i felt obliged to maintain a relationship with them. I was also scared of falling out with my sisters if i did cut off my parents as i knew they would not understand. Anyway we came back from OZ as i was pregnant with DS. After I had him, to this day i don't know happened to me, it was as if something snapped and i just 'knew' inside my head and my heart and my stomach that i just could not continue a relationship with my parents and 2 months after DS was born i told them i never wanted to see them again. It is now nearly 2 years and 2 months since i last saw them and i have never waivered in my decision to cut them off and i know i never will. It's like someone else on here said, sorry i can't rememnber who, sometimes when a bond is broken it cannot be mended again and that is how i feel. They have hurt me so much, there is nothing they could now say or do to repair the damage they have caused. I don't think i ever had a bond with my mother, but i did have one with my father until he destroyed it when i was around 10 or 11. Perhaps if he had made an effort to re-establish our relationship when i was a lot younger it would have been possible to 'mend' the broken bond. But somehow i doubt it. I think he completely destroyed my trust in him and once the trust is gone i think it is very hard if not impossible to get it back and without trust there is no relationship other than a purely superficial one which is the sort of relationship we have had since i was 10. ie for 28 years. As for my mum, i think my trust in her was also destroyed at the same time. During the most traumatic abusive incident with my dad, which was and still is so traumatic that i still can't post about it on here, she just stood there, watched and did nothing. I think from that moment i knew i was all alone in the world and that is when i must have started emotionally detaching from my parents.

Anyway to get back to my current problem of what to do with my feelings of anger and caused by DH. I feel like i just need to vent these feelings somehow just to get them out of my system. Talking to DH is no good so that's not really an option. I think i might try writing him a letter which i won't give him in which i can voice all my thoughts and feelings and then perhaps go and punch a few pillows or something!

I am so sorry about the long, rambling nature of this post, there is absolutely no need to read or comment on any of it, i just feel so much better for getting all these thoughts out of my head.

Sandcastles,

I had not thought of the "third" issue before yesterday, when a RL friend mentioned it. I am a third and so is RL friend. (We both have NPD middle sisters .) It did affect me greatly because my mom was bi-polar (back then they called it manic depressive) and she was also an alcoholic. I have major attachment issues with women-with men, I am ok because my dad spent 'good enough' quality time with me. Am in counseling and am reading "Parenting from the inside out" which addresses these circumstances; am also just starting to study Adult Children of Alcoholics. For years, I didn't know I was so messed up, but I now realize that I am.

Sorry for the tangent-back to children:

I don't think I need to worry because I have a 13 year gap between child #2 & #3 so the "third" will essentially be an only child, especially when the first two go off to college. The older children love the baby and can't get over 'how cute she is'-with continual paparazzi; they give her a lot of loving attention.

I don't know your age, but you can wait awhile then have another. I hope this helps you not feel sad about putting a limit on the love you have to give children .

Hi Pages!! I think about you from time to time and imagined you skipping through fields of wildflowers -thought you found resolution and were recovered and moved on. Sorry to hear your mom is still ...well...a crap mother. (((((hugs)))))

hi pages, i think you have been given some very good advice here. I think you should consider carefully what a relationship with your mother would cost you. And how would it benefit you, if at all?

If you want a relationship with her i think it will have to be on 'her' terms as she clearly will not accept your terms. Are you willing to enter such a relationship? Is she really worth it?

Just some things for you to think about.

just voicing some thoughts....i find it a bit strange that i have never felt any guilt or shame about my parents' abuse. I have always felt very strongly that all the guilt and shame for their behaviour belongs to them and to them alone.

However, in relation to my DH and my sisters, I do feel a certain amount of guilt and shame for their abusive behaviour towards me. I am puzzled as to why this is so. I wonder if my feelings of guilt and shame are 'blocking' my feelings of anger which i know intellectually i should be feeling towards them. How do i get past the guilt and shame to my anger? I find it easy to access and 'feel' my anger towards my parents and i think this is because i feel no guilt or shame about what they did to me. Has it got anything to do with emotionally detaching myself from my sisters and DH? like i have done from my parents?