"But we took you to stately homes" - Part 4

[oneplusone]

Can't beleive we're onto part 4, although i can't see this thread ever dying.

I was just reading through past posts to try and catch up on the months i have missed and something somebody said has triggered something for me. I know my mother didn't bond with me or love me and i think part of the reason why was because she thought i took after my dad whom she hates (although she is too gutless to leave him). I remember when i was young her saying things like my hair was like my dad's but she wouldn't say it an affectionate way, but quite a venomous way and it always made me feel uncomfortable when she said that but i must have been too young to figure out why.

The more i realise about my mother the more i despise and hate her. I remember she used to play hide and seek with me when i was very young, about 3. Only she would 'really' hide in a place i would never be able to find her. I remember crying and feeling completely distressed one time as i thought she had gone and left me alone at home. It was only after i had been crying for some time that she jumped out laughing from her hiding place. What a nasty, cruel, ugly piece of work and she parades around looking as if butter wouldn't melt and she has a lot of people fooled including my 2 sisters. I know my dad can see her for what she is which is why she hates him and i can see her true colours too which is why i hate her.

I know inside she is deeply insecure, lacks intelligence, strength and integrity. I have witnessed her lie, manipulate and cheat to get what she wants and the people to whom she lies and those who she manipulates are us, her own family. I just can't beleive my sisters cannot see through her, they are totally blind and deaf to her true character and have completely fallen for the victim role she has carved out for herself.

Cutting off my parents was the best thing i ever did and i have realised i need to set some boundaries with my sisters, my last remaining friend and even DH. How to do that is another thing, something completely new to me.

Hi (((((((((all))))))))))))

All day nausea keeping me from my love pc.

Hi to newbies Glad your here

Can anyone go look at this thread. I've seen many of her posts and her mother takes the biscuit...even to letting her ds call her 'mum' and not correcting him. Don't know if she will make it over but worth trying to help.

Allyxxxx

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tmsb, hi, and thanks once again for your kind words and hugs....(((hugs))) to you as well. I felt so overwhelmed at your once again kind post a few posts back, like I said, just at the fact that took my thoughts and feelings seriously and 'accepted' that that was the way i felt. I had the same experience in RL the other day when i ended up talking about my family issues with a friend and she was so kind and so accepting of my feeling that i just started crying. And she said to me that i was probably crying because this is what i have desperately longed for and needed all my life but never had, someone who really cared about me, someone who, even if only momentarily, was selfless enough to take my feelings seriously and show me some empathy and compassion.

I felt so sad and sorry for my 'inner child', for myself as a little girl who so desperately wanted and needed somebody to take notice of her, to listen to her and take her feelings seriously and i know my friend was right, that the reason i feel so overwhelmed when this does occasionally happen that i start crying.

Re DH, thank you for your advice, you have been very thoughtful and helpful. I feel i have had the same sort of realisations about DH as i had with my parents and sisters. I am quite scared in a way, have been scared for quite a while, ever since reading in so many of the books that once you start going through this process you can't help but re-evaluate ALL your relationships, not just those with your parents, and some people end up divorcing their partners/husbands. Ever since i read that in the books over a year ago, that information has stayed with me and i suppose it is only now i have reached the point where i am 'seeing' DH and our relationship with new eyes. And reluctant as i am to face up to the fact, i am not at all sure i would have married DH if i had gone through this process before instead of after meeting him.

It is very hard to pinpoint what troubles me about him and the way he treats me as it is in many ways very subtle. It is not obvious abuse but i suppose it is subtle put downs (in exactly the same manner as his mother.....of course that is no surprise as she is the one from whom he has learnt this type of behaviour, even if it was subconciously learnt) and perhaps more importantly just a general underlying feeling/impression that i have from him that he just doesn't have any respect for me or indeed real love for me. (Although i don't know if my expectations of love from him are unrealistic, i think sometimes i am expecting him to show me the unconditional love i wanted from my parents, expecting him to fill the hole my parents have left which of course he cannot do).

I agree with what you said about talking to DH in a kind way, but i honestly don't think even that would have any effect, simply because i know he is absolutely blind to himself, has no self awareness or insight, just like i was before i began this journey.

Ultimately i know that i can't change him or his behaviour, he has to do that himself because he wants to and right now i know he doesn't want to change his behaviour or even feels there is any need to. I think i have to learn how to step back from him and really see how his put downs or whatever are actually nothing to do with me but a reflection or projection of his inner self and his own deep seated insecurities. I'm sure his put downs are a result of his mother's put downs when he was a child and i don't think he is even aware of how he comes across.

I suppose it has been easy for me to take a step back and see my parents' behaviour in a detached way a i haven't had any contact with them for over 2 years, it's a lot harder to be detached when you live with someone. But i think i can do it and i think that for me is the answer, to learn not to take his behaviour personally and to know that he can't help himself, that it's due to his 'programming' and only he can change that.

ps tmsb, i love your description of DH and his freight train of emotional baggage, perfect!

hi danae, nice to see you after all this time! Am glad you are doing well, you have done the healthy thing and as you say, you are seeing the benefits, physically and emotionally of shedding your toxic load.

Message withdrawn

Well said, Danae! Oneplusone, I think your decision to recalibrate expectations is the right thing to do.

Danae-I am glad you are back on the thread, and doing well. Good for you for making the leap.

no time now...
((hugs)) Ally-hang in there.

Ally directed me to this thread. Have seen it crop up loads of times on active convos but never really thought I was abused by my parents. In my mind it was for people that had been physically abused but now i am beginning to realise i may be being emotionally abused although it's still kind of hard to accept. I hope you can give me the strength to fight back and move on.

Nappyaddict I've actually been concerned about you for some time...seen you post on other threads about your mother and its never been an appropriate time to say anything to you about her being abusive to you.

What you do is entirely up to you, but I would never downplay the benefits, to you, of being separated from her.

Feel like posting some more about your past/current situation? Or how you feel about your mother now...

Cannot guarentee I'll be back to comment, I'm pg and feeling rather sick so not enjoying being on pc much...too much bending over keyboard...

Take care for now, you can and will get out of your mums house and away from her abuse.

I am back from holiday. Loads of posts to read, I love it!

From what people have posted: MILs (and mothers) can be so bloody annoying. Some of them can't accept not getting attention for being the Main Mum when we have our children it seems, and seem jealous of the bond we have with our children. I don't think they like to see us do things our own way in case it makes them question the way they did things. They get competitive with us and in some cases try to almost steal the child away for themselves! I so hope we aren't like that when we are grandparents! They need to be told in some way that "You are not his/her mother, you are his/her grandmother. The grandmother's role is..." What is the grandmother's role? Can anyone list what they are supposed to do?

I've sometimes wondered why grandparents sometimes seem better with their grandchildren than they were with their own children but it is obvious really. They don't have to spend all day every day with them, having ultimate responsibility and trying to get on with everything and live their own lives at the same time as looking after the children. They just have them in short bursts where they make a big effort for a short time.

G2B it doesn't sound like your MIL is much good for your DS if she will just ignore him in favour of 'the toddler'. And her behaviour re saying things to wind the children up and make them jealous, and treating DP like he is nothing, it seems like because she knows she can, because he is so desperate for her love he will put up with it - not really the sort of behaviour you want role modelled for your DS!

Oneplusone, you sound like you are really going through shit lately! I am so impressed by how honest your posts are and how you say things other people would be scared to say but really want to say. You are right, admitting to your true feelings asap and processing them is the best way rather than burying them and letting them destroy your insides and warp your mind. I can see how the thing with your sister planning ttc would bring up a lot of past feelings. Feeling left out is horrible horrible horrible! You feel that other people are better than you and what is it that is so wrong with you that people abandon you in favour of someone 'better'. I felt this with friends all through childhood and I still seem to 'accept' that if I have a friend/lover/husband but somebody else is present then 'my' person will ignore me in favour of them because the other person will always be more interesting/attractive/intelligent/confident than me and 'my person' only stays in my life because I will 'do' when nobody better is around. Also, some people seem to take pleasure in leaving a person out! Not sure if this is paranoia or not. It sounds like your mother took pleasure in your sisters doing it to you and maybe taught your sisters to enjoy your misery too .

One of DH's 'friends' (poisonous bitch) used to enjoy watching me being left out when we used to go out with her and her DH (then boyfriend) and they all worked together and had 'in' jokes that I wasn't part of and talked about their work colleagues who I didn't know etc. The best revenge was when I stopped relying on them so much for my social life and started bringing my own friends out with us and them as well. The bitch couldn't stand it that I was no longer part of her game and didn't care about her. She talks about all my friends who she has met with venom (but loves their men). I don't know if your sisters are like this, but if they are then do you really need them? Look elsewhere.

TMSB, I think it is really good that you cried at therapy. It is shocking that you were so 'brainwashed' that you couldn't feel anything. And you are right, you can't grieve until you feel it and you can't heal until you grieve. There are things that have blocked me from feeling my sadness and anger - feeling I must forgive because I can understand why people are the way they are and feel sorry for them and thinking if they have done good things then I shouldn't be angry with them for the bad things. OnePlusOne, you talked about these blocks in the way of feeling the negative stuff as well and it made me think. I don't think these 'blocking' feelings are necessarily bad feelings/thoughts to have as well as the bad stuff but I plan to have little rituals and blocks of time where I ignore those thoughts and focus on the bad things and really feel the feelings and release them by doing my 'venomous typing' and smashing my football around the cellar with a cricket bat while reading a printout of the venom I typed. I've also got a sad DVD to watch which makes me cry (The Passion of the Christ) which I want to try focussing on my sad thoughts then watch it and cry. I haven't tried this yet.

Sakura, I am ashamed to say that I treat my DD like shit and my DS like an angel. I really want to stop. I think my DH treats DS more harshly than DD. Thinking about this has made me think it has something to do with our own birth order. I identify with DS being the youngest and want to protect him at all costs from DD and make sure he is not overlooked and unnoticed and unprotected (how I felt as a child). I'm wondering if DH identifies with DD being so so important until DS came along and then getting less attention and being less 'babied' and expected to be the grown up one. DH's mother desperately wanted children and had trouble conceiving so when DH was born she treated him like a precious jewel. Then she gave birth to twins! and one of them cried all the time and took up even more attention. Suddenly DH got a lot less attention and he hated it. I still trace some of his behaviour (not all of it about our children) back to how his brothers being born affected him. It is like we are taking out our childhood pain on our 'scapegoat child' who seemed to have caused it, symbolised by them being the oldest one or the youngest one.

OnePlusOne, you sound like you are similar with your DD. I had a really difficult birth with mine and after I woke up after the exhaustion just after the birth and it was just me and her alone in the 'birthing room' where they had left me to sleep, I made myself stand up (could hardly stand after losing so much blood) and go over to the cot and look at her sleeping. I couldn't feel anything and it scared me. It didn't even feel like she was mine and had just come out of me. I just felt physically like I might pass out and die and terrified that I didn't know how to look after my baby and might not be able to do it. The fear took over everything else. She didn't seem very interested in me and didn't seem to look at me. It got a bit better when I had more milk and she seemed to want me for that. I was absolutely no good at 'baby talk' and had to learn it and other people seemed better with her than me at first. It took me ages to relax enough to feel love. With DS the birth was easier and I knew how to do baby stuff so wasn't full of terror. I felt the bond instantly and have felt more love towards him than DD ever since. I don't have to try to feel it with him, it is really strong. With her I feel I have to try to feel it. I try to parent her properly because I know it is important and I know it is my job but it is that which drives me rather than love for her. I hate saying this but it is true. How do I get so I feel the love? What you wrote sounds similar.

LittleBella, I think you are right that we might not have confronted our childhood issues if we had never had children and I know I have felt more angry with my family since having children and realising I could never treat them as badly as I was treated. I also might not have gone so deeply into confronting things if my brother had not gone to prison and I had not got so deeply involved in helping him work out why he committed his crimes. I'm perversely grateful to him for that. You said about the oldest child getting a less experienced and less insightful parent and that is definitely true with my DD and DS and I'm thinking maybe my parents did better with me (the youngest) than with my brother and that is why he is in prison and I am not.

Attila, what is it that your FIL and BIL have against your DS?

LittleBella, you are so right, getting help is not self indulgent, especially if it makes us better mothers and wives. It is what we should do.

OnePlusOne, do you want to stay with your DH? Sorry if this is a question I shouldn't ask. At first I thought you might be just having that once a month hormonal doubting everything including your relationship thing that I get but now you have posted about him quite a lot it sounds more serious. If you imagine being without him do you feel any pangs of sadness? What do you feel? Could it still get better if you just give yourself a break from thinking about him while you concentrate on your other stuff and drift along for a bit, like someone else said, gradually building your confidence in other areas and as time passes you might find he acts like he respects you more as you treat yourself with more respect. You wrote something like this yourself a while back. Do you still think this or are things bad enough that you are thinking about leaving now?

Twinklepom, your poor DH! I don't know if I'm sexist but I can't help thinking it must be harder for a man to talk about being sexually abused than a woman and he has been really brave to confront his family with it. It is terrible that they are trying to say it is normal and he should just stop thinking about it and forgive because it was when they were children. This seems to be quite a common reaction from what I've read and know from my own family . Their weakness and inability to face up to things is a stronger force than how much they care about your DH. He can't just 'get over it' to make them feel less awkward and their attitude is likely to mess him up as much or more than the abuse itself!

MrsP/Miggsie, more parents in denial, I am sorry. You are right to be angry. I'm so glad you have got your DH backing you up. You are not going mad, it is them who are warped not you. Don't let them mess with your mind for their own ends (so that they don't have to face up to what happened). We believe you.

Sakura, what you said about taking your anger out on the right people, the wording you used, made me think about how I treat my DD. I wonder if saying to myself "Don't take it out on her, it's Bro/parents who messed you up" would help.

Danae, you sound like you have achieved so much and been so strong, I am in awe!

NappyAddict, keep posting, the ladies on here are so helpful and help give you the moral support you need to do what you want to do.

I despair over my inability as a mother. The holiday, although lots of good bits, seemed to highlight all that is wrong with me, my mental state and my deficiencies at being a mother.

When will I stop being so irritated by my DD, wanting her to shut up, get away from me, stop leaping about, stay away from DS, not even talk to DS because I'm so anxious that she might hurt him or control him.

I've had her home all summer holiday, winding me up, then on holiday it seemed like I didn't get any break from her at all (no holiday club for two days of the week and no rest when they went to bed because they didn't end up going to bed/sleep until we did). All the time she kept asking for things and more things and saying what are we doing next, when, how long to wait. We took them on really nice days out and did nice things for them but she never seemed satisfied or grateful even though we were worn out from all that we tried to pack into the week. She wound up DS all the time and resisted every little thing we said and argued with everything. How should I not get angry? DS cried a lot because he is oversensitive but it didn't make me as angry as DD's behaviour.

I couldn't sleep properly and felt exhausted which seems to make all my mental issues intensified, in fact I feel so much better when I've had a good night's sleep that I would recommend to anyone with mental health problems to try sleeping better as the first step to feeling better. I don't know if it is the new contraceptive pills I am taking or if I'm pregnant again (EEK! I just don't feel I can go through with it again!) but I felt sick most days and was actually sick one night, and had headaches. Again, the more sleep I get, the less sick I feel. I suppose feeling tired and sick would have made me feel more irritable with the children even if they weren't being too difficult.

My anxiety was terrible. Every little thing made me tense and I just couldn't relax. DH's driving, worry about the kids getting sunburn, dehydrated, sunstroke, worry about the kids running off and getting lost, worry about the kids slipping on rocks and smashing their teeth, worry about the kids falling down the steep stairs in our villa, worry about the kids opening the windows and falling out, worry about the kids running in the road, falling down sheer drops etc etc. DH was relaxed and not worried about anything and trying to stop me, as I saw it, looking after my kids by making them hold my hand all the time and stay next to me because he said I was being too anxious and wrapping them in cotton wool. I just couldn't relax though. If he was lying back on the beach with his eyes closed someone had to be watching what the kids were doing. DS runs off out of sight without looking back and needs to be stopped from kicking sand on people, throwing stones, hitting other children for looking at him the wrong way and DD gets sudden fears about things and needs reassurance. I felt rushed all the time by DD constantly asking for the next thing and DH wanting to get out and do lots of things and pack everything into the week. I have this problem where it takes me ages to get out of the house because I feel I must have every little thing prepared in advance and everything I might possibly need in a bag because if I am not ultra prepared then something terrible might happen. When I feel rushed I forget things and when I've forgotten something that makes me tense and angry with whoever rushed me. I am so anxious to protect my children and not let anything bad happen to them without me noticing and so scared that I won't notice something bad is happening. I feel like I need to keep them right next to me and under my complete control so that I know I can stop anything bad happening.

My anxiety makes my life such hard work and so tiring. The responsibility of motherhood frightens me. Responsibility for anything frightens me! I don't want anyone to expect anything of me because I might fail. I only pretend to be clever/capable and I feel I will soon be found out if I have to really do something myself. Now that I don't have a job I'm scared that I can't go back to work because I just won't be capable of doing the job and everyone will laugh at me or be cross with me or ridicule me. If any of you met me in RL you would see that I am not as good as I might look in writing. You would think I looked and talked like a child and had no common sense and had no idea about normal procedures in society. You would rather talk to someone else instead of me because you would be able to see there is something weird about me and you wouldn't want to be associated with a weirdo. I might 'do' if nobody else was around but someone else would be preferable to me. I don't feel like a real, proper person. Nobody will ever take me seriously. I am ok for the occasional joke when I behave like a joker, or for sex. Other 'losers' are happy to be with me but only because they can't get anyone else. I feel DH is only with me because he couldn't get anyone else. I don't want anyone to look at me sometimes, just don't look at me then you won't ridicule me. I don't want to talk too much in case I sound stupid or people laugh at me for saying intelligent things because they think "who the hell do you think you are pretending to be?". Something about me looks stupid and I don't even know what it is. I used to have this thing where I locked myself in the house and closed the curtains and wouldn't answer the phone and hid upstairs. I'm not as bad as that now but I'm still fucking mental. Was I irresponsible to have kids when I am so fucked up?

What kind of bitch am I that I don't feel much for my DD. She was in my body and a small helpless baby and still dependant on me now and innocent. I should feel more of a bond with her. Why am I so angry with her all the time? It must be my fault she behaves the way she does but I try to do things right and it just isn't working. Even if I do everything by the book or if I give her constant attention, which I'm just too tired to do all the time because she is so demanding she still behaves like an annoying and spoilt brat. When I give her less attention she seems worse. Am I just expecting too much? DH seems to think she is perfect, even though he loses his temper with her and shouts. He doesn't feel guilty for getting angry with her. I feel guilty every time I feel a single negative feeling/thought about my children. I feel guilty for doing what I want and telling them I need a rest while they play on their own for a bit. I feel like I'm neglecting them. I take them out to things and do things with them much more than my parents did with me but I still feel I am doing a shit job. I just don't know if I'm doing it right. I could be neglecting them. I could be overindulging them. I just don't know! Therapist seemed to think if I listened to my gut feeling and trusted my instincts I would know if I was doing the right thing. I should try doing this but I would so like some reassurance. DH doesn't really give me any, he just gets impatient with me if I don't act confident. I feel my friends just tell me what I want to hear so it might not be the truth.

I'd better stop going on. Some days nothing makes sense.

Ally - Until you directed me to this thread I'd never even considered the fact that she was being abusive. It just didn't cross my mind. But as soon as you said it, it sort of clicked.

I guess the main reason is because for a lot of the time she is actually fine, as long as I'm doing what she wants. But if I dare try and do something she doesn't approve of it all kicks off.

she's just had a go at me cos she asked me to check her shares at work. she gave me a pin and it said i needed an employee id aswell. she gave me that and it kept saying invalid so i said i couldn't do it. she was having a go at me saying i could do it i just couldn't be bothered. she's now hit me (not hard - with some letters she was holding but it came sharp) cos i let ds eat a jam tart in the study

Mrs Pogle,
sorry, I haven't read the whole thread but regarding your mother and sister saying you are mentally unstable, this is a completely normal thing for a toxic mother to do because they are unable to contemplate the pain they have caused.
my mother sent me a long, detailed letter about how it was the right time to reveal to me the secret of my childhood...I was born a "special" child She did a great thing for me by not putting me on drugs The letter concluded that I am, and always have been mentally ill i.e I was born faulty.
THere is no doubt in my mind that if there was a choice for her between a) admitting she was an abusive mother or b) putting me in a mental hospital and taking away my child she would most definitely do the latter. Because my mother can only stay sane herself if she holds onto a self-constructed perfect image that she's created of herself. If something threatens that image, like my accusations are, she comes a little to close to her own reality for comfort and will choose to obliterate the thing (me)that is threatening that image.

oh and apparently it doesn't matter cos it wasn't hard, didn't hurt and i haven't got a bruise.

she's now got the cheek to come and tell me to listen out for ds cos he's asleep. i've shut the door cos i don't want to listen to her cos she's winding me up and she just can't let it go. she has to keep coming in and trying to talk me even though i've said i don't want to. oh there it is again "listen out for him" does she think i'm an idiot or something. arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Danae, so great to hear you've cut your parents out. Fantastic. I know exactly what you mean about the lighter load. I work very part time, but nowadays I turn up for work well-presented and with a natural smile on my face. Not with red, bulging eyes, and clothes that I haven't got around to washing. It does make a difference, doesn't it? My bro told me my mother refers to her 4 children now- she no longer has 5 apparently. SHe told my bro that I won't be getting any of the inheritence so bro offered me part of his, bless him. I said no way, bro- you have to put up with her crap, so you are earning every penny of it!

Acting Normal, regarding the guilt, honestly Mumsnet helps a lot for this. THe parenting section. If I feel myself getting angry I know from reading mumsnet that millions of other mums are getting angry at the same time as me, and this helps me put it into perspective. I am over-indulgent with my DD, I suspect this is because I see myself in her (the eldest daughter), but also because I'm scared that if I say no, she won't love me. But mumsnet helps me to be strong in my boundaries, to allow me to put her in nursery to take time for myself, and to allow myself to be angry now and again if she pushes me too far. Its okay as long as its not frequently. Its better than to be a bloody smiling doll like my MIL who is all sweetness and light to your face but then passive-aggressively stabs you in the back. Some mothers behave like this and come out smelling of roses- at least our anger is overt and I believe that is (slightly) more healthy than burying it and letting it come out in other ways. (If you want details of what I mean, I have plenty to give from my toxic MIL!)

nappyaddict x posts !

Danae- So pleased to hear from you! And, that you are doing so well.
Cutting you out of the will is your punishment for escaping outside of the parental boundaries.

AN- Welcome back. Read your post and it does seem that you are being hard on yourself.
With regard to your dd, do you think you have 'always' felt like this about her 'or' did it become apparent after ds came along?
Sorry I dont seem to be much help with this today. I am having a low day myself with things. But I will ponder on your post a bit more and come back.
Its helpful to think about this myself because as I have posted perviously things have been difficult with ds lately.
I also think what Sakura posted was very true. It definately helps me to visit msn parenting section, and also finding out about the age and developlmental stages. Often you then realise what they are doing is just normal stuff. We haven't caused it, it just happens at a particular age.

Nappyaddict- I was really upset when I read your original thread about what happened with your ds. I was also really when I just read your last post. (with your mother that is!)
Can you give us a bit more of a picture of what she is like?
Is your father around at all?

The best advice I can give you is to use this thread and other means, to gradually detach yourself from her.
You have to do this for the sake of your ds.
I also wanted to ask (and I hope it doesnt offend) but why did you feel you could not comfort ds yourself when he was banging on his nanna's door? I was wondering if your mother steps in a lot and undermines your position to the extent that ds is confused as to who is mum/who is in charge and that this has shaken your confidence to comfort him?

smithfield - that is exactly it. sometimes i can't comfort him. he knows who he wants and that's that. i could have taken him downstairs and he probably would have calmed down and in retrospect i should have. i just didn't want him to feel rejected, but that's exactly what i ended up doing.

oh on the plus side i remember wanting to say it again today. something boiled up inside me but i didn't say it. still felt horrible for thinking it cos i know i don't hate him at all. i don't know why i want to say it when i don't feel it.

You hate the fact he wants your mother and she doesn't act like she wants you? And you are really angry with your mum, not him?

Maybe .... I don't know tbh. If I knew it would be half the battle.

And well done for holding back on saying it

Btw, I was 'only' emotionally abused and neglected...and I found out at 19 by seeing a poster by the NSPCC and realising my mother and sister ticked all the boxes. Thing is they don't really advertise the fact...I think the law/social services have a hard enough job keeping up with physical/sexual abuse. And emotional abuse is very hard to define. Still exists though and your mothers behaviour towards you is abusive.

Brainstorm? Maybe not where your mum can see . Just write down/type out all the feelings/thoughts you feel each time you feel the need to say it. Don't try to suppress any really unpleasant thoughts, they often have the answer and it often stops the behaviour in its tracks when you know the reason.