"But we took you to stately homes" - Part 4

[oneplusone]

Can't beleive we're onto part 4, although i can't see this thread ever dying.

I was just reading through past posts to try and catch up on the months i have missed and something somebody said has triggered something for me. I know my mother didn't bond with me or love me and i think part of the reason why was because she thought i took after my dad whom she hates (although she is too gutless to leave him). I remember when i was young her saying things like my hair was like my dad's but she wouldn't say it an affectionate way, but quite a venomous way and it always made me feel uncomfortable when she said that but i must have been too young to figure out why.

The more i realise about my mother the more i despise and hate her. I remember she used to play hide and seek with me when i was very young, about 3. Only she would 'really' hide in a place i would never be able to find her. I remember crying and feeling completely distressed one time as i thought she had gone and left me alone at home. It was only after i had been crying for some time that she jumped out laughing from her hiding place. What a nasty, cruel, ugly piece of work and she parades around looking as if butter wouldn't melt and she has a lot of people fooled including my 2 sisters. I know my dad can see her for what she is which is why she hates him and i can see her true colours too which is why i hate her.

I know inside she is deeply insecure, lacks intelligence, strength and integrity. I have witnessed her lie, manipulate and cheat to get what she wants and the people to whom she lies and those who she manipulates are us, her own family. I just can't beleive my sisters cannot see through her, they are totally blind and deaf to her true character and have completely fallen for the victim role she has carved out for herself.

Cutting off my parents was the best thing i ever did and i have realised i need to set some boundaries with my sisters, my last remaining friend and even DH. How to do that is another thing, something completely new to me.

Danae!! Just read your post! I'm so proud of you!!! You did it, you amazing person! All teary about it...was thinking of you yesterday wondering what you were up to. You sound so much better. The only way is up now

And Hi Sakura your sounding good too...so strange reading your's and Danae's posts...so different to before...How are you anyway? MIL keeping her distance?

Better sign off now...getting sucked back into MN...aggghhh!

Nappyaddict- Yes well done on holding back.
What happened that made you want to say it this time? What were the events leading up to it?
Even if you write down trivia, sometimes it just might tell you a bit more about what happens to you subconciously when you react like this.

I had occassions when I behaved (Im ashamed to say) very badly toward ds, and my trigger was my MIL.
She looked after him while I was at work and I began to feel very undermined by her. I also felt ds started to feel confused as to what MIL's role was.
Whenever ds reacted in a way where he was physically choosing her over me (or so it felt), I would unleash my anger onto ds.
Really I should have directed at the source which was my MIL.

Underlying all of this of course was the fact that I experienced a great deal of rejection from my own mother as a child.
Feeling that rejection again through ds provoked a huge emotional reaction from me.

This may or may not apply with you, but if you start thinking about things that affected you most as a child, and look for themes, you may find your trigger for this.

Ally x-posted- Get off the computer

How is your morning sickness? Hope you are feeling better soon. I know its not too much fun at this stage.xx

Update as promised re MIL:-

Well she visited yesterday and DH made it clear to her that he was not very happy at all with either his dad's or brother's behaviour and that it will be a long time (personally in my case forever) before we have anything more to do with these two. She did her usual high pitched simpering voice in response and laughed nervously. She can pee off as well as far as I am concerned.

MIl is adept at brushing all sorts of awkward problems (i.e her 45 year old layabout son who still lives at home) under the carpet and so it was yesterday. She's as bad as the rest of them in that house of the dysfunctional. They are all toxic and just go around in circles.

ally - I hope you're feeling better soon, morning sickness for me was a misnomer as I felt bad pretty much all of the day leading up to week 12.

Hi Smithfield and Attila...I'm going I'm going...honestly (just one more check at 'last 15 min' first...)

Feel sick...just constantly...and leaning forward over pc does not help...but the attraction of mn keeps me from thinking about it...till I turn off pc... so don't turn off ...but better do...got to go clean cat tray out (yes using gloves and mask...and he's never had a chance to catch toxamaplosistthingingmajigy cause he's always been indoor cat as have his family)...and well sod the washing up...but had better feed him . MN is bad for the soul sometimes...should have played with him this evening. Still talking of cat btw...not dh.

Whinge over. Looking forward to scan on thursday...

allyxxx

I've just rembered and it sounds pathetic. My dad had let DS eat a whole packet of prawn crackers instead of his dinner. I shouted at DS and said he was naughty (should not have done this - my dad let him have them so he didn't know he wasn't meant to) and then my mum started laughing and joking with him saying oh have you eaten all of mummy's prawn crackers which made me angry. But I didn't say it. I walked away and bit my tongue. So I am 50% there. Maybe next time I can stop myself 100%.

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thanks danae and everyone else too. coming on here really does help. why have i ignored this thread for so long!!

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'I used to buy her too much becuase if she wanted something in a shop i felt a weird panic and had to buy it for her, I couldn't bear for her to be upset or disappointment. Of course back to me never having anything I ever wanted. But DD does get stuff she wants sometimes so she is not me in an agony of perpetual hunger for something of my own.'

OMG Danae. This 'is' what I do. Sorry having a HUGE realisation as I type this.

Ds has his OWN room dedicated to toys! It has got to the point where if we go shopping he just wants something 'ANYTHING'. A toy he will play with for a day at the most and then is discarded. I then begin to feel anger toward him when he wants more. Im sure at this point I see my mum and dad and how nothing will ever be good enough for them.
I begin to resent him for it .

This is now tying in with another huge realisation Ive had this week.
My whole life has been based on a perception of what I can do to gain my parents approval.
My parents are (I am now seeing) incredibly superficial. I must have felt this so keenly as a child. It was never going to be good enough to just be me. Lil ol me.
I would really have to be something amazing to win their approval/ get their attention.
I remember I lied to my mum and said that I'd won a writing competition in class and I really embellished my lie to make myself almost into the star of the school.
My mum was so pleased and gave me so much attention, until I got found out!

Ive worked a job I have been miserable in for many years but 'they' were impressed, so I stayed.

The most attention I ever recieved from them was when I lived in Sydney. They wanted me then. Wanted to visit because they saw it as glitz and glamour.
This is what also drove us back to the uk because I couldnt sustain the lifestyle that I needed to to 'keep' them impressed. It wasnt reality.

What we had and what we could afford were poles apart. Eating in glitzy restaurants living in glitzy suburbs. We had to look at moving out to the less glamorous western suburbs or another city or literally sink finacially.
I didnt want to do it, because I know a little voice in my head said, but then 'they' wont want me and they will never visit me if I do that.

So this now spills into ds' life too. I feel Im not enough for him. He probably 'just' needs his mother but I have to be all singing all dancing mother. We cant spend the day together in mundaneness, we have to do something special together...and...I buy him stuff when I cant reach such dizzy heights. And yes I dont want to see him frustrated/unhappy 'ever'.

The truth is I cant meet his or my own expectations and Im emotionally exhausted by it. And then when something triggers to signal Im failing in my endeavours I give up entirely and withdraw.

This is also what I have done continually. I got onto a law course in sydney and half way through I gave up because, I was never going to be a 'good enough' lawyer...magic circle...saving the world....so what was the point.

My mother and fathers need for me to be incredible in order to win approval to bolster up their own broken self esteems was insatiable. And I think even as a child I knew this deep down.

Thankyou Danae!

Yes, that was really an important insight Danae. It hit home with me. DD co-sleeps with me (she's nearly 2) and although this is very normal in Japan I know that I am scared to death of allowing her to feel any sense of abandonment. Perhaps to the point of suffocation. But I've started gaining work in an area that I love (translation) and am working on creating time for myself. Smithfield, I too have a need to make each day special but I'm learning that just chilling out at home, even for 2 days in a row is more than fine for a toddler.

Ally, congrats on the pregnancy! Am very (in a good way!) I'm thinking of TTC for another this year...

By the way, I don't know why I haven'T mentioned this before, but there is a fantastic film with Barbara Streisand (sp?). I've forgotten the name of it but I'm sure its easy to find.
In this film, a true story, 'Barbara' is taken to court by her mother and step-father because they want to declare her mentally unfit and to have her sectioned and put into a mental hospital. She is defending herself and saying that she is not insane.
Anywyay, the reason they want to put her away is because she has accused the step-father of sexual abuse. The court system is in his favour. For example she doesn't get to wear her own clothes in court (only her nightgown) and is frequently drugged for no reason at all by an arsehole doctor on a power trip.
The step-father uses lines such as "She's very sick" and "She needs help, we're only trying to help her". And the mother is always by the step-father's side.
When the time comes for the mother to be questioned, Barbara protects her mother by refusing to allow her to take the stand. We guess she does this because she loves her mother. Her lawyer jokes "Maybe you are mad"

In this story, the mother eventually sees the error of her ways at the end. She says sorry to her daughter and takes her daughter's side. Personally I think that part was made up by the film director to make the story more moving.
The reality of life is that the mother would fight against her daughter to the bitter end to keep her fake life intact
Sorry for going on too long. I just felt it was a really appropriate film to mention on this thread. I'll try to find the name somewhere.

I used to think I was being over protective (a la security-personal safety) with ds and dd1 (14 & 15 now) but I am coming to believe my unbridled attention to them was from my own experience of emotional abandonment.

tangent:
I did not however micromanage them and tried to always ask their opinion-"What do you think?" And instead of letting them fight to the end or end a squabble myself, I tried (still do) to give them the words and ideas to work it out for themselves. Like an argument coach-have their own feelings but be aware that the other person has feelings/view point too.

My children were the only grand children and only niece/nephew. On over buying of toys-my middle sister bought them so much stuff and my oldest sister bought what she could that (before he passed on) my father refused to buy them anything. He gave them his time and hugs and trips to the playground. Occasionally he'd get a token t-shirt from a trip or a little something at Christmas. Christmases were obscene-I say were because we are consciously trying to reign in-for the past few years we have done better.

tangent:
Middle Sister could not understand this-went along verbally but the reality was she continued to overspend-this may be when she thought we needed her assistance some of this is starting to make sense...she put herself in the position of giving superiority (she was Santa Clause) - buy my kids love. We gave her the opening and she took it. Why am I surprised? DD1 now freely admits she only puts up with MS for the purchases .

DH did well to start a boundary when the kids were little in developing the ability to go to the toy store to "JUST LOOK today-not buy anything". That announcement had to come while in the car, best in the parking lot just before getting out of the car so the little darlings would know what to expect (expect nothing). The first few times did rock their world to come away with nothing, but they learned it was a survivable experience.
dd1 collected teddy bears - thus tmsb... and ds collected thomas tank engine so I sort of justified to myself these categorical purchases.
It did get to the point of "enough". The room was stuffed. I said "look-you have enough". And they realized that and started to only ask for specific things and stopped the spontaneous impulse wants -which turned out to be mostly junk and they understood.

Sorry for going on and on here...
better get out for a walk. School started today and I am alone with dd2.
Hello Oneplusone, Danae, smithfield, ally, actingnormal, Atilla, Sakura.

Hi all, keeping up with this thread is turning into full time job! I have only skim read recent posts, but welcome to all the new posters, am sure you will find a great deal of help, support and experience here.

Danae, i wanted to say thank you for your kind words, I have NEVER been described as 'amazing' before! It is kind of weird to have people say such things to me here on this thread but in RL be thought of as 'mad' or a 'psycho' by my family and also DH on one occasion. I am beginning to wonder which is the real me!

Thank you also for your advice re DH. We are not to use your phrase 'mired in acrimony' and i totally agree with your suggestion of just waiting til our relationship 'recalibrates' to take into account my new found self esteem and self confidence.

I have been thinking about what has been troubling me most about DH and i feel it is his unwillingness or inability to accept me just as I am. He wants to change me, or at least is waiting for me to change and do certain things the way he would like. I never quite know what he means when he says this but he always talks about him wanting to feel like i am 'looking after him' and i suppose being 'motherly' towards him (not in the sense of picking up his dirty socks etc!) but in the sense of being caring, loving and nurturing. I kind of understand what he means as i know that i am quite often 'cold' towards him as well as DD sometimes. But again, i am beginning to think that my lack of warmth and motherly skills are as a result of not being mothered myself by my own mum and it means i can't be the wife he wants as well as the sort of mother i want to be.

However, my mothering of my DC's seems to be improving, very slowly, but i don't particularly feel warm towards DH and i think it's because of the pent up anger i have against him from the past. It seems to be an almost exact repetition of the relationship i had with my parents. Whenever i was around them i could never be the warm, loving daughter i wanted to be, no matter how much i tried, i always ended up being snappy and unfriendly towards them. I know now that this was due to the anger and hurt caused by their abuse which was stored up in my body as I had never been allowed to express it.

I think i am going through the same cycle with DH. I try and be nice to him, but there always seems to be something stopping me and i am sure it is my unexpressed emotions from the past when on quite a few occasions he was abusive and/or hurt me (emotionally).

The anger i feel towards DH is nowhere near the level i felt towards my parents and i do not think it means the end of our relationship but nevertheless i do need to somehow 'expel' this stored up feelings and am not sure how. I find i am being 'triggered' by every day events which are bringing up feelings i have suppressed not from my childhood but from the early years in my relationship with DH. I suppose back then i was in the habit of suppressing all my negative feelings and i also had such low self esteem that i accepted any criticism DH had of me without question, i never stood up for myself and it is only now that i am thinking of how i should have responded to the many and varied criticisms he has had of me over the years. Apologies if i sound confused, I am only just realising all this as I'm writing.

It all makes perfect sense in a way, DH has a highly critical mother and i am 100% sure she criticised everything he did as a child, to the point i think where he was scared to do anything or make any sort of decision for fear of being criticised. He married me, and i'm sure he could sense i had low self esteem and was the sort of person who would not stand up for herself (as indeed i was) and so he had free reign to criticise me to his heart's content, he himself being driven by his freight train of emotional baggage onto which his mum had loaded her 'rubbish'.

Being able to see all this objectively is invaluable as i can now see DH's behaviour is not really personal against me, it's simply the only way he knows how to behave. But it's still hard as he gives me the feeling he is never happy with me and nothing i do is ever good enough. But i suppose i am no longer, hopefully, going to be looking to him for approval, if I think what i do is good enough then that's all that matters. Easier said that done though

I also (still) think MIL perpetuated this a little. Her way is smother love, she cant bare to see ds frustrated at all. 'Oh come here to nanna...' In other words 'Nasty mummy ....lovely nanna' .

But because I am so insecure I let this control me. I became like her in order to regain some ground with ds. I believed all to easily he loved her more than me. Why wouldnt he? I dont believe Im lovable right.

Before MIl was on the scene evryone commented on how contented and independant he was. I feel Ive stifled that and now I need to find a way back.

TMSB- I also overprotect. I stood yesterday hovering over ds at the park. Nervous at his interactions with other children.
I was bullied (a lot) even at nursery I was the kid the got kicked under the table.

He isn't assertive and looks intimidated and yet when I am relaxed or turn up at nursery and see him without him seeing me he is unhibited and playing happily.

And yes it 'is' all about abandonment...as Ive posted here before.
Perhaps thats why he has never really settled at Nursery, maybe I dont give him the freedom to do just that.
Maybe he reads me and knows I hesitate every time I let him go.

It seems dd can roll to her front but not back again...that is until she realises mums stopped rushing to the rescue. She's cute alright!

PS, I love all the descriptions people come up with on here and i see this as a good sign; finding your creativity (whether it be using words or pictures) runs parallel with finding your emotional self and finding your true emotional self is what this is all about.

oneplusone - xposted.

Do you think writing an example of what happens between yourself and Dh would help?...Even if it seems like the events leading up to you feeling angry might not seem significant, maybe someone here will see a pattern. Or indeed you might after seeing it written in black and white.

Good for you, Oneplusone. You are really figuring things out in your own reality and not crashing your ship on the reef of others expectations any more.
I think maybe your dh just wants a compliment? Recognize his efforts in their simple truth without comparison to others or other qualification.

Baby wants hugs...got to go.

Since my really 'down on myself and everything' post I've been thinking and having lightbulb moments again. I think it is true what people said a few weeks ago that there are lots of big ups and downs along the process of therapy and when you are having a downer, a new, even more enlightened phase is often about to follow! Let that be encouragement to people

I read everyone's posts, listen to my therapist and what my bro says about his therapy and it all sinks in and has an influence and my subconscious seems to work on what has been said and come up with new bits of the puzzle that fit together and make sense maybe days or even weeks later.

Somebody said something about roles in the family a while back and I was thinking about what role I played in my family. I think mine and my bro's role was to make the family look like a normal 2.4 children family and make my parents look like responsible, 'grown up', normal people. I always got the feeling they did it because that is what they thought normal people did (have a couple of kids).

My mum often used to say "in my day people said children were to be seen and not heard" and that also seemed to be my parents attitude. We were there to make them look respectable not to cause them hard work and difficult issues for them to face. When I didn't behave 'normally' because I was being abused they tried to make me think it was normal and dismissed it so they could carry on feeling normal. I always said I felt like just part of the furniture and not really noticed by anyone, not really a real person, not really there - not heard and hardly seen!

I was thinking about how I keep telling DD to be quiet and go away from me if she wants to make a noise and jump about, and not talk to me because I need to get things done and I had a sudden shocking realisation that I was expecting her to act like she wasn't there exactly as I did during my childhood!

I was overcome by sadness for her and felt her loneliness and vulnerability and felt absolutely awful about the way I have treated her. Something shifted in my mind and I suddenly saw her as a child (which she is, only being 5). I don't think I had been thinking of her as a child since DS was born (Smithfield, you asked if things changed after DS was born - definitely I think). She seemed so grown up compared to him and suddenly in my mind I think she was in the role of my bro, the powerful one, and I needed to protect the vulnerable DS (playing the role of me during childhood) at all costs. I stopped seeing DD as a child.

I looked at her in bed last night and she looked really childlike and I wanted to kiss her babyish looking cheeks and I felt for her the way I feel for DS! That felt so good! I just hadn't seen her like that for so long.

When I first had DD I think I had another role subconsciously for her. I wanted her to make me look like a good mother. I wanted this because I wanted to prove I was better than my mum and I wanted to feel important (I never felt important until I had children). I couldn't bear it if she cried and I looked incompetent, and I was euphoric if she was the 'best' baby who didn't cry in public when all the other babies at the baby groups etc were crying. After visiting relatives and friends I used to discuss with DH after whether he thought she had been good and how good he thought she had been. I wanted everyone to think I was a good mother.

I couldn't stand it if she cried so I gave her everything she wanted and learnt quickly to be supersensitive to her and know exactly what she wanted all the time. I can see this is unhealthy now but I'm relieved I didn't stop her crying the other way - by intimidation and punishment. I think I made her spoilt and unable to cope with things not being exactly the way she wanted them, which I'm having to teach her now.

DS didn't get everything he wanted so much because it is harder with 2 and he cried so so much anyway and I couldn't stop him.

I've redefined the roles of my children since having these thoughts. They don't have to have a role which directly serves me, I feel that is wrong! They don't have to be a certain way for me to accept them, I want them to be who they are. I get to look after them, show them love and teach them how to cope in the world and how to be happy. Then I will have produced additions to society who dilute the badness in the world by being good role models of how to treat people properly and be happy.

When I focus on this long term goal I feel much better. I used to think the day was a failure if they behaved badly because that meant I had been a rubbish mother. But in order to learn how to behave and how to cope with their feelings they have to make mistakes and go through difficulties and learn with my help how to cope. If they were happy all the time I don't think they would learn much!

Now I think even if they have behaved badly today, but I have used techniques in dealing with it which will help them to learn about how to cope in the world and how to be happy then I have done a good job and should feel satisfaction from my proud job as a mother! I am no longer wanting them to behave perfectly every day and feeling a failure if they don't! I don't just think, today was hard and all I can look forward to is another day of hard work tomorrow and feel depressed and resentful because I can see the purpose of it all long term.

So I'm feeling really good after these thoughts, I just hope it lasts!

Thought these lyrics were lovely and very meaningful and so I wanted to share them;

Honest Lullaby

Early early in the game
I taught myself to sing and play
And use a little trickery
On kids who never favored me
Those were years of crinoline slips
And cotton skirts and swinging hips
And dangerously painted lips
And stars of stage and screen
Pedal pushers, ankle socks
Padded bras and campus jocks
Who hid their vernal equinox
In pairs of faded jeans
And slept at home resentfully
Coveting their dreams

And often have I wondered
How the years and I survived
I had a mother who sang to me
An honest lullaby

Yellow, brown, and black and white
Our Father bless us all tonight
I bowed my head at the football games
And closed the prayer in Jesus' name
Lusting after football heroes
tough Pachuco, little Neroes
Forfeiting my A's for zeroes
Futures unforeseen
Spending all my energy
In keeping my virginity
And living in a fantasy
In love with Jimmy Dean
If you will be my king, Jimmy, Jimmy,
I will be your queen

And often have I wondered
How the years and I survived
I had a mother who sang to me
An honest lullaby

I travelled all around the world
And knew more than the other girls
Of foreign languages and schools
Paris, Rome and Istanbul
But those things never worked for me
The town was much too small you see
And people have a way of being
Even smaller yet
But all the same though life is hard
And no one promised me a garden
Of roses, so I did okay
I took what I could get
And did the things that I might do
For those less fortunate

And often have I wondered
How the years and I survived
I had a mother who sang to me
An honest lullaby

Now look at you, you must be growing
A quarter of an inch a day
You've already lived near half the years
You'll be when you go away
With your teddy bears and alligators
Enterprise communicators
All the tiny aviators head into the sky
And while the others play with you
I hope to find a way with you
And sometimes spend a day with you
I'll catch you as you fly
Or if I'm worth a mother's salt
I'll wave as you go by

And if you should ever wonder
How the years and you'll survive
Honey, you've got a mother who sings to you
Dances on the strings for you
Opens her heart and brings to you
An honest lullaby

Thanks for posting that poem Smithfield. Its makes me feel quite sad in a way

It is sad Sakura, because its what we should have had, she's singing about the confusion of life, its highs and lows and having that foundation (mothers love) to get you through it all.

It also makes me more determined to be that for my children. It helped me to re-focus in a way, I just need to 'honestly' love them both.