Is this mental abuse?

[rubymum123]

I have been with my husband for about 12 years and have been married for 8. We have two children ages 4 and 9. We live in the north of Italy ( my husband is Italian).

Before my children were born we lived with my in laws and I always felt like I came second after my mother in law. Despite the lack of affection from my husband I just kept thinking that things will get better when we have our own place. We got our own place but things didn?t really change that much and my mother in law was still very controlling as she only lived a couple of minutes away.

My mother in law passed away 3 years ago.

My husband main focus now are the children and displays a total disinterest in me. He sleeps on the sofa every evening and says that he doesn?t mean to but he falls asleep in front of the tv. I have tried waking him but he just falls back to sleep. This has be going on for about 2 years.

When I say to him that he only wants to be with me because I am the mother of his children ( hoping that he will tell me that he loves me as his companion too) he tells me that the mother of his children is not a position to be undermined.

I work part time and when ever I need any extra for shopping etc I have to ask him and account for what its for.

A couple of times when I have spent too much he will react by smashing things up. After when he has calmed down I tell him how this upsets me and the children he says that I am over reacting and that he didn?t hurt us. However he doesn?t realise how intimidating it is.

I have said to him that I want to start looking for another job that gives me more hours but he says that he does not want that.

Yesterday whilst parking the car I scratched the side light against the wall ? when he got home from work he commented on it and said that we would get it fixed and said no more about it. He then went upstairs to get changed. After about 15 minutes he comes down and says that he has spoken to our daughter ( aged 9) and starts ranting and raving that I lied to him about being on the phone at the time. ( I know this was foolish parking whilst on the phone but I didn?t lie about it I just left that detail out so to not to anger him). Anyway he started making all these smark comments about why don?t I just take the car and smash it all in tomorrow and how I don?t have to worry because I?m not the one forking the bill. Anyway this went on for about 15 minutes he just kept putting me down in front of the kids and saying how blooding great he was for putting up with me and how hard it would be for me to find another man like him. I felt like I was going mad and walked out to get some fresh air. After a while I returned and felt calmer only to hear him say ? well I hope you pull yourself together as you have some issues. He denied everything that he had said before and said that I was not a rational person and needed help. He always puts it on me that I have some kind of mental problem.

Is this a form of mental abuse?

Ruby

OMG - your dh and mine are similar in so many respects.

my dh from southern italy and I still have problems with a controlling mil. I feel like a mother to his child and that's IT. He's only in one relationship and that's with his mum.

All the stuff about being charming and then sarcastic, stuff about you slowing giving up the things you like (like going out), walking on eggshells, not telling you what you've done wrong when they are sulking). And, the most worrying, now wondering if you're over reacting. Do you ever look at yourself in the mirror and wonder who you are?

Get out of that relationship if you can. If you can stay in a country you clearly love, go for it - if not - the UK will definately help.

If you can acknowledge that you are being cruelly controlled then you are in a better position to take control back, I feel.

You take care.

Ruby, he is horrible. Let us know how the interview goes. ((sending good luck vibes your way))

The best thing you can do for your kids is to stand up and take care of yourself.

Yes, it is abuse. I sincerely hope you, Ruby, and the others in this situation are able to find a way to take control of your lives. Best of luck with your interview

ruby - david tennants mistress has it spot on. if you change one area of your behaviour there will be something else they dont approve of. I spent most of my time wiht my ex trying to be "perfect" but the problem was i didnt understand what "perfect" was. And on the one occasion i confronted him with it "i was wrong".It took me a long time to understand that no matter what i did it would be wrong - he didnt want a partner. he wanted someone to take his rage at the world out on and to believe someone else was as messed up as him so he didnt feel so bad about himself. That was supposed to be my job. Yours is to be a "perfect " wife so he can be a "perfect" man. He would feel inadequate as a man if his wife had independnce and afraid that you would leave. Thats not healthy and whatever you do you need to address that and fast.

Yes, he doesn't want you to get another job because he won't have control over you then!

Putting you down the way you have told us is mental abuse. And to do it in front of your children is completely unexceptable!

To be honest this doesn't sound like a loving relationship and you and your children need love, everyone needs love, a little cuddle at the end of the night isn't much to ask for.

I think you should have a good think about if this is the right man for you, there are plenty of other men that will want to love you and your children the way you all deserve.

Hope you are ok and can get through this. xx

Must be some thing about italian men after they marry.. funny a friend warned me years back to be careful as they are known to change once they have what they want. I am now treated like a mixture between his mother and his child?!

Talking about children, as I said I have 2 girls and despite all is lack of interest in me he wants another. I love my two kids but don't intend to get pregnant again, for me two girls are perfect. It has been some time now sine he has brought it up but there was a time when he did nothing else but insist about having a third. He'd say things like .. it's me who decides anyway ( half jokingly but really meaning it ) this is probably one of the reasons I have gone rght off sex with him. He has said things like if I love our children I will have another baby so that they will have each other when we are gone. When that didn't convince me he said in front of my oldest that I was selfish. He has even tried bribing me with a boob job and tummy tuck saying that he'll pay for them if I get pregnant?! That totally shocked me and got quite offended. I mean what kind of person does he think I am? He said that he thought he was being a gentlemen. I said that if I had another child it would be because I really desired that and not a couple of silicon implants. Like most women after giving birth I had a few extra curves but hearing him say that makes me think that he doesn't like me the way I am.

On to something else, I went for the interview this afternoon but don't really think it's for me. It involves selling insurance policies. Anyway, I've got my cv all prepared and am still looking. Thinking positive!

Well I was married to my Ex for 26 years... I loved the country we lived in, had 3 kids, a good life. But he was horrible to me too, ups and down, controlling behaviour, mentally abusive - the whole whack... Same excuses as you, didn't want to go back to UK and give it all up, had got used to the continental way of life, friends, lifelong friends. But guess what... eventually it wears you down that at the end of the day you are still stuck with an ignorant, controlling, demoralizing SOB, (his parents as well).... I always felt second rate too. Then one day, we split up, he got his stuff and left threatening not to come back. I let him go. And never let him back in. I thought.. THANK GAWD FOR THAT.. Two years later I packed up my stuff too and me and DD3 are here now, back in the UK after all those years. My self esteem back to where it should be, 5 years after that day that he left, I feel like a burden was lifted off my shoulders and I wish I had done something about it earlier on. I breath air now and feel it go into my lungs. Freedom, not walking on eggshells. Not tiptoeing round moods. No more putting myself second, third and fourth. First me.
I have a lovely BF now, I am happy and free of all that stress and misery. Nothing is worth your self pride and self esteem. Chin up lady, either start fighting for yourself or get off the downhill ride fast!

Ruby, I really hope you get a job that you love.

I hope that you get things sorted on the home front too. You sound like someone who is strong and knows her her own mind. Don't ever doubt that whatever your H does or says.

Keep us posted on how you get on.

well done kally its great to hear a story from someone out the other side.

go for the job mrs and i certainly think you have the strength to go if you want to - stay in touch with us!

Yep Ruby - that's part of it - emotional blackmail saying that if you love your kids you'll do as he wants - and yes - he clearly doesn't understand women.

I have UK born Italian friends here who were encouraged to marry Italians from Italy and they are also complaining of the same thing here. One is not allowed to work with the order ' you have kids - you cannot work - you are a mummy now' until the big man realises they are skint and then it's if you love your kids you'll get a job to feed them.

You have two choices when faced with a man like this - find a way of navigating it and finding peace with yourself, if not, then break free - sooner rather than later.

It could be that he's still in mourning re. the death of his mum (not so long ago) and taking it out on you.

yes it's great to hear you have made a life for yourself back in the uk...good for you Kally. I can believe it when you say that you wish you had done it earlier, that's what I keep thinking. It's seems so hard but probably once its done and your back on track you probably forget all the hard bit in between.

prettyfly - your post about just wanting someone to take their rage out on is soooo spot on. My ex was like this too. And I spent years trying to be perfect too, until I realised that he was always shifting the goalposts.

rubymum, sounds as though you are not far from southern germany. there is lots of work here in bavaria, including english speaking workplaces. Many italians here as well.
The police here have been very supportive to me - my ex spent 4 months in prison earlier this year, because he just couldnt accept that he couldnt come round and hit me when he felt like it.

rubymum123, I'm glad you have been brave enough to ask for support. As you can see there are many MNers who have been there/are in similar situation to you. Me too.

Please keep reading and posting on this thread. You are a good person and you deserve a life free of this man and his abusive behaviour.

This so reminds me of my ex. I remember I scraped my car on one of the window boxes and what it felt like waiting to tell him! Since I left two years ago I feel like I am a different person, and best of all, because there is no need to be afraid of him - I have my own life - we actually get on amicably for the children. When I left dd was 7 months ds 3 and we lived in my father's house on a very tight budget. I am quite an impractical person and I felt very afraid of being alone with two small children, I never thought I'd look back on leaving as a blessing but it has been. I still miss family life but a family life I dreamt of, not one I ever really had with him. I hope things improve for you, I really do - but please don't be afraid that you won't cope if you need to, I promise you you will.

Seems like alot of us mumsnetters feel bullied and controlled by our partners.

I would suggest that Ruby you check out your rights.

I know that Italian law when it comes to inheritance favours blood relatives (ie when faced with the prospect of being childless I was often told that anything my dh inherited would be assumed back to the blood family - with kids a bit different). My sil is divorcing her bil in Italy and she's entitled to almost nothing as he's entitled to everything he brought prior to the marriage including the property. She's entitled to only something like 20% of the contents of the property - for 7 years of marriage. Different if you have kids.

If you are not an italian citizen check out your rights in Italy in relation to seperation procedures, custody etc. and also if push comes to shove whether it's preferable to seperate under Italian or UK law. This will help inform your options and perhaps just make you feel more empowered. The UK Foreign Office is quite useful in information on legal matters abroad and attitudes towards non nationals - might be worth a quick call - they have alot of experience - or your local british consulate in north italy (although I think your nearest one is Rome).

Getting a nice job sounds ideal - I think alot of what you are facing is cultural differences and you need to stand your ground. Do not feel like you're putting your children second - they need a happy and respected mummy.

Next time he offers you a boob job say that with the money you earn from a new job you'll pay for him to have a penis exention.

Just focus on being the person you want him to be and ignore the sulks while you think about what you want in life.

Thanks for the advice..had a laugh to myself about the penis extention!

I'll check at the british consulate in Milan, but I think that as we have a prenuptial ( sorry don't know if I spelt that right) agreement that the house is both of ours as it is on our mortgage I don't think that would be a problem. I sometimes think that is the main reason why he doesn't just chuck me out. We had this row a while back over money issues, I had spent over the budget at Christmas and he went balistic. He said that I could pack my bags as when he got back from work he didnt want to see my face. I was crying and said how sorry I was but it semed to anger him even more. He started to say very hurtful things like the children wouldn't miss me as they don't need me, that he was fed up with supporting me, the house was his and as I haven't paid the morgage I don't have any rights and I'm the lowest of the low... e.t.c. After he left I started to change from feeling very upset to very angry..I thought "how dare he?" so I made up my mind that I would leave ad take the children. I started to organise things.. meanwhile he would come home from work, not say a word and go up stairs and stay there all evening so not to see me. After a few days I finally confronted him and said that I was leaving, I had had enough and would be taking the children. I said that we should sell the house and that as the house is in my name too we would go halfs..he said ooh you worked that out well you clever little thing.. Once he began to realise that I wasn't messing about he started to change..ringing all back onto me saying that he was willing to try so why do I want to split the fmily up..he said that he thought the kids came first..did I? Sorry to go on but to cut it short we reconciled and ntohing more was said. Best behavoiur for a few weeks from him. I still can't forget what he said but if I ever bring it up he'll get annoyed and say..don't make such a big deal about that.. I said what?' He has conveniently forgotton that episode..

I know him so well..and I don't want to put up with any more of this crap..that is why I want to get my independance back together with my pride and be able to stand on my own even if I am intiled to half the house, I want to show him that I can do it by myself..

Gosh, you will find it hard to find another man like him and I hope you don't manage it.

Get out now.

Hi rubymum,

I posted at the start of your thread. Me an DP had an arguement on tuesday evening, i said i had enough enough and he siad he wants rid of me anyway. He told me to take our DD with me as when shes older she will come back to him anyway as i am a bad mum.

I am lucky as my M&D live around in same area and have bee at their (they are away at moment).

I have resisted calling him for last 2 days...sometimes had to phone close family members to get them to reassure me not to.

I have always been the one to run back in times of disagreement. Not this time.

He hasn't phoned me at all.... I think he expects me too. I will not.

Stay strong please.... like my DP your DH is just waiting for you to crack, i've only been in this situation for 2 days, its so hard and will get harder.

Stick to your guns ! MN is there to support you... It has helped me. ((hugs))

Well done StarSparkle! Good on you for standing up for yourself.

Two hints for helping to "remember" the bad stuff - lots of people have mentioned that afterwards they wonder if they are remembering correctly.

1. Write down the examples after they happen, with as much wording detail, gestures etc you can remember
2. if you think he's about to blow, set your telephone to record it (or buy a small tape cassette you can turn on easily in your pocket). That way you can listen back when you're calmer and decide if the conversation was OTT or not. And you have proof.

you did the right thing star sparkle, keep in touch and let me know how things are going. I hope I can be as strong as you. lol

Star Sparke - well done you.....so strong.

Ruby - well I love the bit about you wanting to split up the family and questioning whether you prioritise your kids and insituating that you'd planned the financial side of things in your favour - erm your house too!

Do not pander to this man - go get a nice job and him that the three of you can go it alone.