following on from my recent thread. he has left her and wants me back, but I dont know if I want that, but I DO want friendship. advice please! (prob v long, sorry)

[averyquickex]

omg, I cant be bothered with going over it all again - I am so tired of it tbh. But I need your wonderful advice mnetters, so I will have to recap.

In short, xh didnt cope with the transition to fatherhood and became very selfish and unsupportive. Our relationship deteriorated, but it was nothing that couldnt be saved, had he been willing to sort it out (believe me when I say I tried). Anyway, what started off as an emotional affair led to him leaving and having a full on relationship with a 23 yr old.

I was gutted, begged him to come back, went through a LOT of heartache. Its now 2 months on, and with a LOT of counselling, I have more or less accepted it, but realise I cannot see him physically AND heal, and so any access to ds is done through my dad. I really wanted him to finish it with her so we can be friends, and still be a family iyswim, albeit one that isnt actually together. With her on the scene I couldnt be his friend.
I have said over and over to myself and to anyone who will listen, that I no longer want him back. I still love him, yes, but I certainly dont trust him, look back on our relationship and see that it wasnt happy, and can not ever imagine sleeping with him again. Sex was alwyas an issue with us, and if we ever got back together it would be MUCH more of one now.
I talked to him last ight and asked him to commit to either her or his family - not to say to her he is moving to London with her and to me that he is leaving her by not going to london with her. Him doing that openend my wound and every time I saw him I got really angry about the betrayal, abandoning ds etc etc. He says he isnt happy with her, the grass wasnt greener, he misses me.

But I dont know if I believe him. Last time I rejected him (relaionship wise, not rejecting friendship) he ran back to her.
My opinion is lets be friends and go from there, not promising anything. But I AM open to us 'finding' each other again, iyswim.

He now says that he wants me back (but I still dont fully trust him on this anyway.) If he decides this and does leave her, I would be happy to increase access etc, to work on a frienship for the sake of ds. And to see if anything DOES happen in the future.

But, I also have a date lined up. I dont want to miss this - I doubt he is 'the one', but I think it'll be fun anyway. Havent done this sort of thing for ages, and this is what some of my recovery was ultimately leading to (as well as the 'me; thing). Obviously it is too soon, but i see it as a bit of fun. I also think I need to do this for myself.

xh would not handle this well. It would be likely to drive him back to ow. But like I said, I just want friendship at the mo, and lets see if anything comes from that in the future. I am not promising ANYTHING - I may well never get over him sleeping with someone else.

So am I being reasonable or unreasonable?
has anyone any advice?

you separated for some very good reasons by the sounds of it

i wouldn't diving back into a relationship with him

the fact you think he would be "driven" back to the OW if he knew you had a date makes him sound utterly immature and incapable of handling his feelings and behaving in a mature and rational way

if he truly wants you and your LO back in his life he needs to stop seeing the OW, get to counselling and behave like a husband and father

approach with huge caution IMO

You are in a bit of a pickle! Do you think he could be trying to get back with you because he's found out you are going on a date? Could be that it's ok for him to see someone, but not for you ifyswim?

Or is it because he might have actually realised what he's lost and that he's acted like a total cock?

Only you can decide whether or not it would benefit you/make you happy if you took him back. It may be well be that because the trust has gone, you can't. But you should do what makes YOU happy.

I think you are right just wanting friendship at the mo, sometimes it's best just to take a step back with no 'relationship' involved. There's no rush.

Be very careful!

I certainly wouldnt go diving abck into a relationship with him, but would be up for friendship - for the sake of a 13yr marriage and ds.
the thing is, I know him REALLY well. I have second guessed everything he has done. I dont want to lose him from mine and ds's life, just because he wont get help. I do still care about him.
But how can I help him to help himself? He is teetering on the right decision, but I think he needs to accept that I do need to see other people. As you siad, i cant go diving back into a relationship with him
But he is scared of being alone, and this would be enough to make him make the wrong decision.
How can I be honest, and help him?

you can;t help him

he needs to want to change and look at the behaviours that have led him to this point

that is why he needs counselling and perhaps when you are ready, couples counselling

mutha - I think he has realised what a cock he has been. But then again, he could call up today and say, no he is going with ow. It wouldnt surprise me.

sobernow - I had arranged the 'date' beforehand (its not like an 'official' date, iyswim). Set for a couple of weeks time. But I am not viewing it as a finding a future husband type thing, but as a chance to go out and meet a memebr of the opposite sex. iyswim. A chance to make another friend if nthing else. I think this is how he sees it too.

and ds is 18months now, not exactly a newborn.

very - no no no. come on love you have been doing so well. this is not worth it.dont go down the route of games etc with him. what has come across in all of your posts is how hurt, betrayed and angry you are. its only two days ago that you asked about splitting them up to be friends. are you sure this isnt more of the same? you have to make a choice love. either go to councelling and make a move to resolve the relationship once and for all or accept that its not going to work and stop tormenting yourself with him, his life his choices etc. right now you are not friends you are exes. you arent even sure you want to be that. is there any chance you and the little one can get away for a few days to clear your head. and if he is using the ow as a threat he is playing with you. which is control. which is wrong.

very - no no no. come on love you have been doing so well. this is not worth it.dont go down the route of games etc with him. what has come across in all of your posts is how hurt, betrayed and angry you are. its only two days ago that you asked about splitting them up to be friends. are you sure this isnt more of the same? you have to make a choice love. either go to councelling and make a move to resolve the relationship once and for all or accept that its not going to work and stop tormenting yourself with him, his life his choices etc. right now you are not friends you are exes. you arent even sure you want to be that. is there any chance you and the little one can get away for a few days to clear your head. and if he is using the ow as a threat he is playing with you. which is control. which is wrong.

and just to turn things on their head a little bit - how is he keeping the other woman dangling and running back to her when it suits him if you say now. how bad is that to treat her like that = you might hate it but i bet she loves him as well and thinks they have a future (bear in mind she is very wrong) its not just you he is being cruel to. lying to two women, stringing one along? thats pathetic, demeaning, childlike selfish wrong despicable behaviour and from everything i have read of you you are worth a great deal more then that. he sounds like a worthless toadbag with no respect for any woman quite frankly.

thanks prettyfly.
you are right.
he wont make a committment to either of us. he is keeping us both dangling.
I have looked at how many threads I have posted, and he is playing with my head big time. I keep on asking - am I being reasonable, becasue everything I do he turns it into me being unreasonable.
and the last thing I was confused about was how he is making me feel bad that he cancelled access!!! HE CANCELLED ACCESS and i feel bad! wtf.

he is a lying toad. he keeps telling me one thing to get my hopes up, then doing another. he doesnt know what he wants.
I bet that when I said no to changing our arrangement today, he prob went running to ow saying I wont let him see ds.

well, so bloody what. I dont care what she thinks.

if he stays with her she will find out what he is like.

from now on, I will try my hardest not to contact him at all. I am not listening to it anymore. If he texts me something, I will tell myself he is lying.

its so strange. last night I was positive - I wanted to help him, I wanted to be friends, and now (after the access debacle) I am angry and confused and hurt again. Spot a pattern anyone?

yes. because he is - all say it with me now - A BIG TOAD BAG - one who wants everything his way, will lie to get what he wants, is manipulative - attempting to control you then lying to her and playing with the time he spends with his own child to wind you up. Tell him to feck off. DO NOT ENGAGE WITH HIM. do not talk to him. he is not trying to be your friend, he is trying to get his own way and using another girl at the same time. TOADBAG!!!!!!!!

ok, this takes guts to say, so dont batter me (not that you would anyway):
he is lying to me because I wont take it any other way. I just need to accept he has gone off with someone. I dont have to like it, but I need to accept it for ds.

and I dont need to listen to any of his problems. if he is keeping ow hanging in there whether r not he wants to leave, that isnt my problem. I have admitted I dont want him anyway.

I just need to be able to handover ds to him without getting upset. I guess that is my problem.

he is still a complete lying toad, but at least I am well rid of him now.

we wouldnt batter you for that lovey but i think you will find he is lying cause he can. why else would he lie to her as well?

its massively innapropriate for him to whine at you about the woman he left you for and another betrayal of you both.

i am glad your feeling a little bit better. its so hard to not care and the changing of mind is pretty much just part of coming to terms with it all (at least thats what i am telling myself). one minute i hate the fxxk out of ex the next i am justifying everything for him and missing him like hell. think its all part of the process lovey!

I think quite possibly he isnt lying to her. probably he doesnt want to leave her, but is saying that to me to keep me sweet so he can see ds more often.
I take heart that she will see how awful and useless he is to live with, and am sad that he didnt change into a good dad for me, but then better rid of him really. I wasnt happy with him for a long time. At least we have our gorgeous ds to show for our relationship.
Its still hard to let go, but I guess it will be hard.

very - if he hasnt gone back to her and told her he wants to leave her and go back to you - which is what started this thread, then he is lying to her. dont defend him love - you dont have to. how the hell would you thinking he wants to come home get more access. ruby is right. he needs help to sort out what he wants and its not your job to give it.

Here speaks the word of experience - I went through this 3 years ago now
First of all you - there is a big element of "wanting to win"/"beating the OW" - even of we don't really want the prize...
There is the wanting a family for your DC, of being amicable and rational (even when your heart is breaking)....
There is still that element of love which is so very hard to switch off ...
And to him....
Maybe he is confused ...
But IME he is playing both of you - he doesn't want to be alone , he is waiting to see which one of you will stick by him...
Maybe he doesn't really want you, but he sure as hell doesn't want anyone else to have you...
He wants his "family" as well...but does he want you??
My advice - decide what YOU want and stick to it do not get talked round by him...or back down ....if you want him go for it on your terms and if not walk away ....

Having spoken to my h about this - he says that men in this situation are just so scared they will miss out on something and the thought of you possibly with someone else will be so painful.
Try not to let him you are seeing other people - of course you have a right but actually it is not any of his bussiness now, but could mean he makes things harder for you iyswim.

If he is really serious about you he will get rid of her first before he even starts the begging - and you are right to not give him hope either.

Try not to be drawn into his games.