After reading about Russel brand - content warning (concerns SA) added by MNHQ

[Mybadcat]

I had an encounter with a man many years ago. He was super popular and every woman fancied him. To cut it short I was absolutely wasted, I remember him having to help me stand up walking back to his house. I think i wanted to go back to his house but as I say I was black out drunk. All I remember when we got back to his house was him lining up a massive line of something I assumed was cocaine and then nothing. I woke up naked aware we had slept together. He was polite and drove me home. Several of my friends found out and as I was not single and I was shamed for sleeping with him. Even though I don’t Remember sleeping with him. I acknowledge now 16 years later this may be rape. I never wanted to say it out loud

Yes, you were too drunk to consent to sex, it was rape OP. I’m so sorry this happened to you, it was a crime and I’m sorry you were shamed by your friends too. Unfortunately the people you trust can really let you down when a rape or sexual assault happens.

Please consider contacting a rape crisis organisation. You dont need to make a police report but it may be helpful to talk it through with a professional. You can also do an anonymous intel report if you know the guys name. Speaking from experience, talking online can help but I always advise contacting a specialist organisation that supports victims and survivors.

Thank you for your message. I’ve played it over in my head for years and years. I knew was wrong. He’s so charming and as I say everyone loves him, the RB stuff has really made me relive it. Xx

Im about to get jumped on for saying this, but ime it’s true. Times were different back then (I AM NOT SAYING THEY ARE RIGHT), so was the culture and ethics. That man WAS a predatory piece of shit in the way he took advantage of a girl who may have said no if she was sober. But growing up in the 80’s and 90’s there was no understanding of the ‘flight, fright, freeze, fawn’ responses. If you didn’t want to have sex with someone, the consensus was on you to say no, or make it clear one way or another that you don’t want to. If you were drunk and had sex with someone you might otherwise have not had sex with when sober, then it was considered your responsibility to not drink so much to excess that you couldn’t control your actions. In this case this could very much be considered a grey area even now. You were both at a party, you were drinking and he was presumably not only drinking but taking drugs (he may have been more wasted than you)? You wanted to go back to his house, I’m guessing you knew it wasn’t for a game of monopoly. You had sex which you were aware of. And then you say he politely drove you home. This must happen to hundreds of people on every weekend night out having one night stands. If this was man a who stalked drunk girls every weekend, that would now be considered predatory even with drunken consent. But unless the man at the time was having sex with you while you were unconscious, at the time it could not have been reported as rape as it wasn’t back then

@Blackandyellow65 i also grew up in the same era as you and my recollection of that time was being constantly sexually harassed by men who just wanted one night stands. But back then we were made to feel ashamed or mocked if we rejected their advances. So many women I know from that time slept with men they didn’t want to because they didn’t feel they had a choice. I had one encounter where a man who was physically bigger and stronger than me would not take no for an answer. I said no over and over and in the end I gave in as he just wouldn’t leave me alone and I couldn’t get away from him.
I’m glad women are now able to speak out and call this behaviour out for what it was and is.

@Mybadcat I’m very sorry this happened to you. I echo the PP who suggested seeking specialist support to enable you to talk about what happened in a non judgemental space. Some posters will come along and try and rewrite history for you but there are people on here who hear you, believe you and will support you.

Does or did it make you drink less after that night?

What a bizarre question to ask OP after what she's just spoken about.

I tend to agree @Blackandyellow65, even today it can be a grey area if the man is also blind drunk. If someone is so out if it they don't remember what they did themselves they can't possibly be expected to interpret body language of the other person. It's very different if the woman is drunk and the man is manipulating the situation. I'm really sorry this happened to you OP, try to stay away from media about the RB case.

1/1/2004 is when the England and Wales laws on rape were updated and it was set out clearly in law that a person could not consent if unconscious or asleep.

(Post edited because I checked the law and realized I had overstated it).

Did you feel like you had been violated at the time or is it just now that you see it as rape that it upsets you?
I had a similar experience in the 00s and I didn't have any feelings around it at the time, I think most young women had similar experiences. I started to feel uncomfortable when consent became more of an open conversation and I realised it was rape. I'm pretty sure I'd been drugged, I hadn't had a lot to drink and my last full memory was passing out then there's snippets of him carrying me upstairs.
I had to make an effort to remove the label from it in my mind. There wasn't any damage done at the time so I needed to let it go so it didn't eat me up. That's not me justifying it. It was wrong but I need to protect myself and not let the realisation of it being rape impact by mental health.

I have been reading so much online about the madness of the early noughties and lad culture and I do very much remember it as such, it’s like a fever dream now, the pressuring for casual sex (maybe the way some young people are pressured for nudes now and this is seen as normalised?).

Its always weird because whatever era you grow up in is sort of firmly presented as ‘normal’ so it was odd to feel odd and not really comfortable about it… there was a real ‘you’ve led me on and now it’s the done thing to put out’ type of vibe from some guys. Some sleepy guys had a right old time!

But there was very little judgement!

Balancing it against reading a lot of Anthony Trollope’s Victorian novels (very angelic female heroines, who ‘lose their freshness and bloom’ if they so much as have a crush on someone, and can’t kiss before betrothal, akin to some American fundie Christian girls today) and an edwardian novel where again a ‘nice’ girl loses her purity and everyone can tell because she KISSED a boy ONCE and he didn’t marry her. She was damaged goods!

Basically there seems to always a certain way for girls to behave that is ‘right’, and it’s so important for women and girls to think about what they actually want to be doing in whatever circumstance they are in. Often those ways of being right are decided by men but reinforced by other women!

It was wrong OP. Please just keep telling yourself that. Even if you wanted to go back to his house doesn’t mean you should expect to be raped. The fact you don’t even remember having sex with him which shows how out of it you must have been. Him being polite and driving you home was probably a practiced tactic of his to confuse you and convince you he wasn’t a predator in a similar way RB sent messages, emails etc.

Everyone may have loved him but I bet you were not the only one he did this too, and sadly many people would be aware of it.

The shaming of you for ‘cheating’ is likely cognitive dissonance on your peers part. Its easier to blame you than admit there is a predator amongst them. Sadly I had to learn this the hard way at 15.

Unfortunately rape is one of those crimes where everyone seems to have an opinion and feels entitled to ‘reframe’ your experience therefore sharing online is a double-edged sword, for every poster who is supportive, another will leave you doubting and questioning yourself. Therefore i really urge you to seek specialist support. If you have kids or dont have much privacy, many services have a late night chat function and just let you talk without judgement.

That’s made me think about an incident in 1980. Was very young and very drunk in a pub. Went into the ladies to be sick in the sink and the bloke I’d been talking to (friend of the landlord) came in and stood behind me and put his hand down the front of my trousers and underwear.

Sadly this is true, and worryingly the Pelicot case highlighted that the law still works pretty much like this in France- rape seems to need additional violence for a conviction beyond the obvious sexual violence of the act itself. I keep hoping we are reaching a tipping point where we do think differently about it all across society.

i think this happened to a lot of women i know it happened to me and i wouldn’t consider it rape or contact anyone about it, i remember being on a night out and being very drunk, a man i kind of knew of vaguely kept trying to get me to go back to his, i kept saying no no but he wouldn’t take no for an answer even my friends were pushing me to go with him so i eventually gave in, at his place we had sex, i really didn’t want to and was really very drunk (falling over etc), he then dropped me back to mine and we never spoke again. i didn’t agree to it and it plays on my mind now and again even though it was years ago because i knew i didn’t want to do it but i wouldn’t consider it rape and would never report it.

When I was about 17/18 I was drugged and raped. I didn’t realise that was what happened to me until many many years later in my late thirties when I was thinking about it one day. For all those years, I thought that I had just been very very drunk. But I have never been that wasted since and I blacked out sat on the toilet in the club for a long time before it happened. I can remember it happening but feeling disassociated. It didn’t even occur to me that he would have drugged me. Young and naive.

I’m sorry this happened to you and others.

Im sorry this happened to you, the fact it still plays on you would indicate you know that you didn’t freely consent.

Completely appreciate that you wouldn’t consider reporting your experience or class it as a rape. This is your own personal experience. I have experienced one incident that did have negative consequences so I did seek further support. I also experienced another incident shortly after that I can now see would be classed as rape but I would not consider reporting this for other reasons.

Please can everyone remember though that the decision to report or not, or reach out to a specialist organisation is an individual choice. Just because a pattern of behaviour was normalised /many others had similar experiences does not make it ok or less justifiable to report or seek help. Even if others wouldn’t consider it rape or consider reporting their own experience, does not mean that OP should feel that she cannot report or feel reluctant to reach out to a professional.

It feels, as many have done and will continue to do, you’re trying to find a way to blame alcohol instead of looking at the real problem here. That’s a shame.

It feels, like many have done and will continue to do, you’re trying to find a way to blame alcohol instead of looking at the real problem here."

Hi I don’t at all feel I want to jump on you I respect your opinion and you’ve said it with kindness and it does give me clarity in a way. I have carried this for years , the shame, the confusion and yes absolutely I know it was different back then, I see now I was certainly reckless, and on reflection absolutely I put myself in a situation I shouldn’t have. But I can’t shake it off. I will speak to someone to hopefully move forward. I certainly don’t want to ruin two families and have 0 intention of reporting or anything like that.
It’s very sad to hear of other women’s similar experiences. I’m glad times are changing.

Hi I don’t at all feel I want to jump on you I respect your opinion and you’ve said it with kindness and it does give me clarity in a way. I have carried this for years , the shame, the confusion and yes absolutely I know it was different back then, I see now I was certainly reckless, and on reflection absolutely I put myself in a situation I shouldn’t have. But I can’t shake it off. I will speak to someone to hopefully move forward. I certainly don’t want to ruin two families and have 0 intention of reporting or anything like that.
It’s very sad to hear of other women’s similar experiences. I’m glad times are changing.

That was one of the most confusing things I knew it wasn’t right but I also didn’t dare consider it as sexual abuse because I knew I’d put myself in that situation. It was almost like I buried it told no one, I knew what people would say, I was embarrassed, ashamed, I felt weak and small and ignored the feelings.
but it was always there.
I’ve seen him a few times over the years. he’s married and has children, he’s always charming and polite, I was with other people so kept myself on the perimeter to avoid any direct conversation.

I am so sorry this happened to you, OP. And to any other women on the thread who experienced similar. I did too, and even after years of therapy it still rears its head at times.

Please consider getting help, whether from a specialist charity like Rape Crisis, or accessing counselling/therapy, either through your GP or privately. If you choose the latter, please be careful to choose a practitioner who has training and experience in working with rape survivors. Sadly not all do, and the ones who don't can potentially do more harm than good.

(I worked for Rape Crisis for many years, and have spoken to lots of women who were hugely helped by talking therapies, but also sadly some for whom their therapist's attitude actually made things worse for them....)

How are you feeling now, having started the thread? Thank you for posting by the way - extremely brave of you to do so! Xxx

Thank you CocunutSwirl.
I think Maisiemouse2 didn’t fully understand what i was discussing xx

i am sorry this happened to you. That’s describing what I felt perfectly, disassociated. I’m finding opening up on here really helpful. I hope you’re doing ok?