Completely confused about whether to stay or leave

[BotoxOrPuffins]

Been with DH for 18 years and have 2 tweens. Covid was horrible and we were both enormously stressed by work and kids at home. It took us to the brink but we have always communicated well and saw it as something to get through together. But then my DDad passed away, then perimenopause hit and then some work problems for us both. Life was so stressful that somewhere along the road we drifted apart and have never found our way back. There's low level resentment from both sides. We have been in marriage counselling for 2 years and had individual therapy. DH also has a strained relationship with our DS. We have sex about once every 4 months. But for me the connection is gone and no matter what we do it's not working. I told him I need affection and he tried a bit harder but that didn't last long. He used to buy me flowers and suprise me and made me feel like I was his world. And I loved him so much but I am so sad to admit it but I think it's the end of the road for us. My dilemma is we are financially in a total web. Also we live in London and our life is so expensive it is financially impossible for us to have separate homes. Our kids lives are so settled here locally, leaving is not an option. I don't know if it's worth continuing therapy, trying harder, co-parenting under one roof, we only have 3 beds so how the hell do we have our own space. I'm feeling so sad and confused. Can anyone help me understand how to you separate when you can't afford to actually separate. We both work in financial services so we both know our finances won't support 3 households. Not unless we leave London, uproot kids from school and start afresh somewhere a lot cheaper. Please be kind I'm feeling incredibly upset. Thanks.

I didnt want to read and run. I separated from my h just before covid. It was an awful time for lots of people but does sound that you"ve had lots of issues since and have got yourself to a place where you know what is best.

Does your dh feel the same? Does he have any solutions / ideas?
How old are your dc?

Have you spoken to your DH about feeling you’ve reached the end? Does he feel the same? It sounds like something you need to talk through together. Could you afford a small one bedroom flat that you could share and would give you a bit of space? I know this is far from the ideal scenario, but it doesn’t sound like you have an ideal option right now.

Ah I’m so sorry to read this OP, it sounds really hard.
What used to work for you?
What needs to be solved? It’s easy enough to tell him it would make a difference for you to get the occasional bunch of flowers (don’t think my husband has ever done this!) .
I take it you’ve tried a regular weekly date night?
How do you think life would be better if you weren’t together? Would you really prefer to be on your own in a small flat?

All I would observe is that two full time jobs + two children is incredibly challenging for anyone. No one has anything left to give after that. Can someone go part time to ease the load? It may well be life, rather than him/your relationship that is the problem. We ask the impossible of ourselves these days.

Thank you for replying. We've both become very quiet with each other. Our only communication is around logistics and children. Writing that is enough to see the problem is bigger than it seems. I will have to speak to him. Sometimes that is the hardest as I go to bed early with the kids around 930pm. They are early years of secondary school, 13 and 11. We put on a front for them but they will know we are not a romantic couple. It's just so desperately sad, we had such a happy marriage and I can't believe I'm in this situation. Date nights, maybe that is something I can suggest.

Thanks again for the messages.

Morning op. Just here to say similar really although I have ended it and we have been cohabitating and decoupling for the last 6 months if you have any questions. I just wanted you to see there are women who have ended a marriage without really knowing what will unfold. But I knew it had to end. We’d tried for 6 years but the lack of intimacy was causing problems for me in a way he ultimately was only concerned about when it affected him. Seeing that killed something that needed to be killed for me to call time.

To be honest, it feels like you've gone through a lot and are still very stretched - you also show that you value your relationship and your day to day life is working well and is mutually respectful. What is missing is the spark. Try listening to psychotherapist Esther Perel's podcasts - she's so inspiring and really helps.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1sUIMGBP8qr0FREaSVxJjj?si=W7D1o54aTB2Sag4YHVSkbw&utm_source=copy-link

My problem with Esther is that she appears to believe that cheating is caused by anything and everything other than a spouse just lacking empathy. As if everyone who has an affair is just a poor misunderstood soul on a journey and never just thoughtlessly unkind. I can see the appeal for a woman, and their spouse, who are in the pick me trance.

As another poster has said, it sounds like you do value this relationship.

Are there any points of contention, beyond what you've said here, that you discuss in therapy?

Because it sounds to me - admittedly from a very brief snapshot and with no personal knowledge of you - is that all you both need to do is start putting some effort into each other.

You drifted apart and never found your way back. Well doing that starts with small steps. As small as something like putting his towel on the radiator so it's warm, or him making you a cup of tea when you've had a busy day, or one of you seeing something the other would like at Tesco and just buying it because, even if it's a 50p chocolate bar. Or even just half an hour sat together in the evening.

Regular date nights are also a good idea. Your children are getting old enough now that they can be left alone for a couple of hours in an evening.

The only barrier to this is: do both of you want to do this? It can't just be one sided from you, otherwise that will breed resentment. If you both want to do it, then you need to both commit to this, no starting and stopping after two weeks.

Why is your husbands relationship with your son so difficult?.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?
Do not stay with him for the supposed sake of the children (it’s not easier for you to stay with him) and or for a lifestyle you want to maintain. One day the kids will leave home and what for you then if you and he still together?. Putting on a front has consequences and not good one’s because neither may well want to come home very often if at all. Do not put this man before your kids.

What do you want to achieve by splitting up?

You have financial stability, a shared history, both love your kids (whatever the issues, no one will love and care for and be as interested in your children as much as you both do/are), you’ve provided them a stable home where they can thrive, you have a competent co parent and partner in the house/logisitcs. Surely at its core that is what a marriage is, the vessel for all those things? The love and desire come and go. Is this just not a chapter in a long marriage? It’s a partnership, a co working relationship where you strive together for the best interests of the unit.

As long as you basically like each other and support each other, you have the foundations. I would just choose to stay. Choose to be happy with what I have for now, let go of the sadness and the weight and the indecision and choose to stay and love each other in a practical way. Choose to like him again, go for dinner, have drinks, have a laugh, stay in a hotel if you can and just get a bit of connection and laughter going, that would be enough for now. Be pragmatic, unless you’re desperate for another partner then what’s the point of leaving? I’d even forget the therapy, it’s not working is it and too much introspection can be a bad thing.

Just have a laugh and some adventures. Get rid of the kids for a night and get stoned, go to a gig, go wild camping. Stop angsting and feeling worried about whether your life is enough or whether it’s a sad tragedy you’ve grown apart, just park all that. Come a level up and live a bit more in the moment.

Reasses in ten years.

2 years of therapy and no improvement. When do you decide to call it a day? What would be the point of splitting up if you continued to live under the same roof doing the same things. You may as well stay together.
You also have to decide if you are willing to make some compromises with moving house and if not then again just stay together.
Do you want to wake up when youre 50, 60 or however old you will be and realise you have wasted your life?
I was in a similar situation myself both relationship and financial but in the end I was just miserable and was wasting my life. So we split and sold the house. I bought a smaller house and my ex husband bought an apartment that had been repossessed in a different area. We had to make compromises to do this but enough was enough. It worked out fine in the end but it was hard working out what we could do to make the split. Ive NEVER had any regrets.

Is it worth flipping the life of tweens for your own happiness? I wouldn't do it. I think you're in a really difficult situation because it sounds like it's DH who isn't putting in enough effort so you trying harder may not change anything.
The DC are old enough to not need babysitting, get yourself out there and find happiness elsewhere. I don't mean an affair, I mean exciting hobbies, meeting new friends etc. Maybe H seeing you happy and enjoying life could bring the spark back. It sounds like it's just been years of misery and stress.

Please don't take this the wrong way and I'm not saying it's all you for one minute, but you said you hit peri, are you on HRT, with testosterone, I really lost my sense of self when I hit peri, I wanted to leave my husband as I just couldn't stand him anymore, once I was on HRT and the right doses I felt a lot better, it really can mess you up emotionally.
There may still be things he and you together need to do to bring things back together, but this could also be a big part of the issues.

ever you’ve written suggests that you need to split and the question is really about how to afford this and how to manage it.

is there any scope to make an additional bedroom in your house? Either converting the attic or splitting a bedroom. If you and DH could each have your own separate space, maybe you could live as flatmates for a few years until the kids have grown.

is there scope for you to get a promotion at work? Or move to a cheaper area of London? It might be worth thinking through all the options and see if you can find one that could work.

Is there any way that you could have a weekend away together, just the two of you? If not, then how about spending a day together doing something outdoorsy like hiking? You’ll be forced to communicate with each other. My DH and I have become a lot closer by getting away from it all, together without distractions. It has really renewed our relationship. Get out of the house and away from your children and just concentrate on each other. Like someone else also suggested- date nights!

Ok, so this one might be a bit different, but if you don’t want to move out and split up because of financial and kid reasons for now, you could always just give it some different options to make it better until you can afford to separate because your kids move out.
you could try a different therapist if the one you have hadn’t been working for you- I had a friend who tried a few kinds of therapy before something worked for them. Also, I read this book called ‘Fight Right’ by the Gottman’s which helped me communicate loads better with my husband and in a way helped me trust and stand up for what I need and communicate that in a healthier way.

If that’s not a go you could just work towards accepting the situation and taking the best that you can until you get a chance to get out by accepting that he might not be for you but really looking for and deeply appreciating anything that is good about him, even if he’s not able to return the favour.

It’s a really hard situation and I’m sorry you’re going through it, but if you can find any positives at all and really make the most of these, it might make it bearable until you do find an answer. sending love ❤️

Thank you so much to everyone who has taken the time to reply. I really appreciate the different views and helpful suggestions. I'm going to seriously consider everything. I do think life and it's general ups and downs has got to us. Deep down there may be enough to salvage something. But it will take effort from us both. Thank you again everyone x

I divorced my ExH 18 months ago after 26 years together. Lifes great single parenting tbh. I wish id done it sooner. Covid was the beginning of the end for us too.

I think in your situation I would have an honest chat with your DH, if you feel like you’ve lost the connection he is probably feeling the same as you and is equally sad about it. I have been where you are, I’ve been with my DH for 25 years, I have had a lot of times where I have wanted to leave, because I have felt like we were two strangers sharing a house. If money had been no object I would have definitely left. I was also going through the menopause and my mum died 3 years ago having had dementia for several years before that. I just didn’t have the mental capacity or energy to split up and sort out a new life for myself with two teenagers who were both quite demanding so I decided to stay. My DCs are now young adults. I think the main thing is communication, Ive had conversations with my DH where I’ve told him I wanted to leave as I can’t carry on living in such a ‘functional’ relationship with no connection. We were both honest with each other and decided to try and start making time for each other again, it’s not perfect but we are in a much better place than even a year ago. We have more time to ourselves now. It’s never going to be like it was in the beginning, but I’ve come to accept my husband for who he is more. I’m not saying you should stay if you are desperately unhappy and I know how soul destroying it is to lie next to someone night after night and feel zero connection.
Only you can decide what’s right for you but I do think long marriages can go through good and bad periods and for me the thought of uprooting the children when they were going into their teenage years and all the financial implications of that were just something I couldn’t face and now I’m glad I didn’t pull the plug on our marriage as the children have more of their own lives now and we have more time to do stuff as a couple. We even had our first holiday away together this year as a couple since before having kids and it was really nice. It might be that you’ve come to the end of the road with your marriage but I think if I were you I would try and sit down and have an honest conversation about how you are both feeling before deciding on what to do.

What is your husband like as a dad and a husband now? Is there anything that is a deal breaker?

If not I would say try and reignite the marriage, I’m sure you’ve been told this in couples therapy? My husband and I sometimes fall into the trap of it being all about the kids and we accept that right now while they’re little it will be like that, but we try and make time for one another when we can. I wish I could go to bed when the kids do but stay awake to spend some time with DH.

You haven’t said why there’s stress between your DH and your child so we don’t know how serious or permanent that is.

Otherwise, it gets said on here and it’s often true that the grass is greener where you water it. It sounds to me like there is very little watering going on. It sounds a bit as if you both assume that things would be different/better with a different long-term partner. They almost certainly wouldn’t. You’re both living through the kind of challenges that people in very long-term relationships generally do go through and that can cause us to neglect our couple relationship.

Unless your DCs have special needs, you should be getting quite a lot of time back for yourselves now. Evenings out and dates here and there should be very possible including for 2 working parents. Why are you going to bed at 9.30 pm with the DCs? That sounds like avoidance to me.

It sounds like you’re both choosing to treat family life as all-consuming and your relationship as a problem to be hashed over and solved rather than taking any lowkey pleasure in each other and in your shared life.

You want performative gestures like flowers and for him to make you feel like you’re his world and he’s yours - but that’s romantic moonlight and roses stuff; it’s not how long-term real world love works.

Perhaps you can recalibrate your view of romance. DH and i piss each other off sometimes but we can still find things to talk about, make each other laugh, find each other interesting, enjoy each other’s company and shared activities despite 25+ years at the coalface of earning a living, raising a family and running a household with all the normal day-to-day niggles and irritations. I think that is true romance.

It sounds like there’s a lot of strong foundation here but you are both choosing to chip away at it rather than nurture it. You can’t mend this alone, nor can he, but you can jointly decide to make a bit of time for each other; go out for dinner; go see a film. Water the grass of your relationship.

Never put a front on for your children. They are more aware than that.

I am divorced. We and my son are much happier.

Sorry you are going through that, it's hard I know.

He needs to know you are thinking of ending it. That is the only point at which men summon up the energy to change. And then tell him exactly what you do need, schedule date nights. Forget about sex for now, focus on the friendship, respect and the connection. Bit controversial but I would also can the marriage counselling it clearly isn't working and is probably making things worse. You need to find your way back to each other, starting as friends and then see what happens from there.

I am in the same boat and have decided to stay. Things have been incredibly tough the last two years for us but I had a very honest and astute counsellor point out that if I left, I would realistically just be making things harder for myself and worse for the kids. And it isn't romantic but I believe it is true.

Most people on here will tell you to leave. But what is on the other side? Some great other love/soulmate? If that was so destined it would happen anyway. I think that is what you think is on the other side. The chance at a fairytale with someone else, who treats you the way your DH did at the beginning. Of all the single mums I know very few have re partnered. They are financially stressed almost to breaking point. Life is not any easier.

I know you are sad and lonely and your DH probably is too. I think as the children get older things will improve. Let him know how you feel and give him a chance to be the man you need. If he can't do that then it might be about accepting that and toughing it out a little longer until at least one of the kids is over 18.

Change your therapist. You shouldn’t be going for 2 years with no improvement or no decisions made.