What do you do if you know your DH would NEVER seek professional help about your marriage.

[Ladytophamhatt]

I started this thread earlier and reading it back to myslef I can see that its never going to change.

Dh will alway be more loyal to his family and never stand up for me. I feel like I'm going aroudn in circles, while he doesn't see any problem.

Our relationship isn't the best marriage in teh world but we do love each other. I often feel like he critisizes everything I say or do or that nothing is ever quite good enough for him.
He simply cannot see there is a problem.

Kind of like its his way or nothing.

Obviously, I can only give youmy side of teh story and I'm quiet aware that some of tehtime I blow things up out of all proportion but....Oh I don't know.

I just don't knwo what to do.

He woudl never talk to anyone outside our marriage about teh way I view it and if he did he certainly wouldn't want anyone to knwo about it (so we couldn't ask anyone to babysit) so theres no way of resolving it anyway.

I've had lots of advice over teh years about me and Dh and I don't think things have really changed.

All the stuff I said in the other trhead makes me think I'mfighting a losing battle.

sorry for starting another thread about it BTW

bloody attention seeker, that I am

Sorry you're having a shit time of it. I agree, he sounds like the monkey to BIL's organ grinder. If this was me, I'd do the broken record technique till it gets through to him that he has to consult you about important decisions, and your BIL comes way down on the list.

(btw do you realise you haven't namechanged for this thread?)

yes, mumblechum....I changed for teh other one incase he read it, which i very much doubt he will but I thought sod it foor thsi one.

I hoep he does read it.

LL, yes, you're right it is like that. I just get one with it. Like ir or lump it.
we've been here sooooooo many times. We'll talk about it, I'll end up crying and he'll apologise, but he won't actually cahnge any of his ways.

He'll say ina huge huff "Ok, so I won't do xyz...I'll jsut leave it and letthe house be a pigsty"
He has no idea what a luxury he has with this fucking house. He forgets that we have 4 children. Children make mess......compared to a lot of hosues I've seen, with less children in we live ina showhome.

sorry, gone off on a bit of a tangent there re the house/pigsty.

The MIL/BIL is a huge thing for me though

He does 'consult' me in descisions...in teh way of telling me.
He ask my opinion and 99% of the time discount it with a few seconds (or that what it feels like)

I think all you can do is take responsibility for yourself. If you think you need help to work through your issues about MIL, then go and do it, don't let the fact that he won't do it become another issue you blame him for. At the end of the day, you can't make him change, but you can take steps to change your own reaction to the situation.

oh dear LTH - I know how you feel about not wanting to split up, but not wanting things to go on as they are.

I had the same thing a few months ago, I thought I wanted to stay with H, but didn't feel there was any way that I could put up with how things were.

With an extremely heavy heart I gave him the choice of getting help (Relate) or us spitting up. He took the splitting up option, at the time I hoped splitting may have been the push he needed to get it sorted, but obviously wasn't - it was the end.

I do think you need to think selfishly about it. OK you could just put up and shut up (iykwim) and keep perhaps hoping that he will eventually change (highly unlikely that of course). But how is that going to affect YOU in the long run, and of course the children, they will pick up if you're not really happy and it will affect them too. Knock on effect and all that.

If however you think you can somehow learn to live with it without it affecting you or the children negatively then do it.

Could you go to counselling on your own? Not ideal, but would help you to get things straight in your own mind.

If he won't change, could you? I'm not blaming you at all, but I find certain behaviour from me makes my DP a lot less stressful. I often feel he moans and makes mad decisions and generally doesn't do exactly want I want - nothing huge, just day-to-day stuff that I can get infuriated or frustrated by. But I feel a lot better if I practise a kind of machiavellian logic on him.

For example with the boat I would have said, in front of everyone, but calmly and straightforwardly, not nastily - "So are you really thinking of buying a boat? We haven't discussed this - there is the money, the space to keep it in, and the time you will spend on it to discuss with me, not to mention the danger. I'm assuming that we will also spend that much money on something for me to enjoy, I will get the same amount of time for my hobbies and the same amount of space in the house/garden for something for me. Maybe I could get that gazebo/sewing machine/etc I saw at blah blah, it is only Oh and if you are having a dangerous hobby, I want one too - I was thinking of

With the giggling - that is infuriating - in the past I've been so mad with DP for things like that and things like totally wimping out in family company and leaving me to cope with really hard social situations while he takes a back seat, knowing I won't make a scene in front of everyone. I simply calmly state - if you do not manage your mum (etc) when we are there or if you make light of my needs/feelings in front of your friends, I will simply not go to - and he knows I mean it.

The idea is not to humiliate him, but to remind him over and over that I have exactly the same rights and needs and equal share in our relationship as he does. My DP is a good man and much more responsible than he used to be, but he still, by default, just forgets that he needs to check stuff with me, or that he cannot just swan off for an evening without arranging it with me etc - deep, deep inside his default is that I will carry the can and put up with the shit, and I constantly have to remind him otherwise. But the more utterly reasonable I am about it, the more it sinks in. If I make a fuss and shriek and wail, I'm an embarrassing harridan and irrational and I know he feels he can ignore me. If I'm calm and supremely logical he has nowhere to go. It's very satisfying too.

It might sound as if things are super-strict and joyless in our house - not at all, we get on well and mostly have a big laugh together. After many years he knows that if he tries anything disrespectful I will not let it go by - and these days he is much better at just bearing in mind that we're equals.

I don't know if all this will work for you but if you think it might, try putting together the sentences you'd like to say on your own and going over them. Practise saying them without getting mad. You are simply stating your rights and making entirely reasonable requests.

How do you want to see yourself in five years? I think you have to decide what you want to change and what you can change and they may not be the same thing.

All marriages compromise in some form or another. It is just what you are able and willing to compromise on.

No help really am I?

Well, he is clearly being guided by his brother. Is he like this with other people as well, easily led? Has he always followed or is it just when it comes to his family?

As for the boat, well, can you afford it? Do you have separate money? Do you make these sort of buying decisions together? I think you have to separate the boat and the BIL thing, as to him you probably look like a dog with a bone, IYSWIM. If you can afford it, and he is OK to make big purchases alone, them I guess you just have to say "well, I think you are mad but so be it"....but if you can't, or you are supposed to be joint in these decisions then you have to put your foot down about the money. But leave BIL out of it. Make that a separate issue.

Does SIL have any thoughts about it?

snowleopoard, thats a really good thing to say re the discusssing it. I'm going to use that tonight, esp as now that I think about it there wasn't any choice for me.
I know he'd say well you have the same amount of money etc but thats not the point. If I went out and spent almost £2000 on something I'm quite sure he;'d want to knmow about it first.

GGG, 5 year from now scares me TBH. I just don't knwo if we'll make it....

I do need to sort out all the crap in my head MIL left me with but while Dh is like this I can't really see much point. I'm always going to the last one he worries about.

just shamelessly bumping incase an evening MNer has a miracle cure forme and dh....

ok, so I said all the stuff about discussing stuff with me first, and if I spent x amount o fcash he'd wantto knwo first and he looked at me completely blankly.

I know by teh expression on his face he hadn't even concidered discussing it with me.

I mentioned about hi giggling an not dfeneding me, about it being just like it was his mother and again he said maybe it was all just me. Maybe I just take things the wrong way.....with his brother and hi smother for the almost 10 years she gave me shit for.

I don't think we'll make it to the end of the year, let alone 5 year sfrom now.
I just feel like giving up.

oh LTH, so sorry to read this. FWIW I sometimes have arguments discussions with DP and I honestly feel as though I'm talking in Chinese. It's like he just genuiely doesn't 'get it' - bit like the "men are from mars, women are from venus thing".

You do have a lot on your plate with 4 young children.

I guess he has to know that you have had enough and that he needs to change his ways. Ultimately the only way he'll understand that is if you spell it out to him. Sorry if I'm repeating but have you tried writing it down in a letter - sounds a bit naff and teenagerish but it can be a good way to get a point across that wouldn't otherwise come out the way you wanted it to.

I di once write him a letter, about the way he is around teh house (so not about mil etc), he read it and then just cast it aside.

Nothing changed.

It got chucked in the bin.

Hmmm..that is shite.
I guess you have to decide whether youwant to issue an ulimatium. He obviously doesn't or won't appreciate how serious you feel about it so perhaps the only way he will is to give him a simple black and white choice - go to counselling with you or you'll give up. Would that make him sit up and notice?

I think SL makes a good point here:
"If I make a fuss and shriek and wail, I'm an embarrassing harridan and irrational and I know he feels he can ignore me. If I'm calm and supremely logical he has nowhere to go."

it's very hard to do especially when you're in the right (and pissed off) but it does usually have a good effect.

in all honesty, i really don't think I can be bothered anyway.

he won't chnge, that painfully obvious because his mother died over 2 yrs ago and all teh stuff with his brither happened just 2 days ago.

I can't see any point in trying.

He has issues with me not showing him enoiugh affection, I have issues about showing it.

He thinks its all my problem (BIL&MIL), while I see it as him supporting me.

Hewants tehhouse tp be a show home 24/7. I can't manage that with 4 children.

He makes teh big desisions, I just have to go along with it.

My life here, in the marriage is crap.

But I think even when things are this bad they can be retrievable and people can change but they do have to want to. Even if he doesn't initally think that he needs to change, if he would even agree to go to counselling it may well be a turning point.
You sound very tired and fed up (which is totally understandable).

I am fed up/tired....I just feel completely defeated with it all. Its a ongoing thing with us, its never really gone way.

I think its coming to a point now where I can't ignore it any more but I haven't got the energy to make anything better....only for it to happen again howeever many weeks down the line.

I need to logg off now and get the lunches done.

thanks for 'listening' katie.

It does sound like marriage counselling could help - including with his issues re: affection. Could you sell it to him on that, say you'd like to improve things for him, as well as for you?

Oh, in your OP, you said "if he did he certainly wouldn't want anyone to knwo about it (so we couldn't ask anyone to babysit)" - I'm sure misleading someone who is babysitting wouldn't kill you, or better still, not telling them what you're doing at all.

Have you suggested marriage counselling? Have you made clear how unhappy you are?