How do I manage bills fairly with a financially careless husband?

[the7Vabo]

Together for 16 years. Two young primary school kids. Just breached my own standards by screaming at DH in front of kids. Feel bad but mainly utterly exhausted.

Im higher earner. I earn about 30% more than DH for 4 days. He works 5.

He is useless with money. He doesn’t know how much any of our bills are. He transfers me a certain amount each month. All our direct debits come from my account.

We have had several conversations over the years. He can often be dismissive with a “money is worthless” comment without really engaging with what I’m saying. I recently had both of us go through our income & outgoings, and it turns out his personal spends are much higher than I expected, and much higher than mine. He said he would do better etc but nothing changed other than I told him go up the amount he was transferring me which still isn’t 50% of our bills.

I need to do a big exercise where I do an education piece - set up a joint account and show him exactly how much is going in & out. But I’m utterly exhausted. I am the only one who plans anything when it comes to money.

Things came to a head tonight because DD wouldn’t brush her teeth. I got really stressed because I recently had to pay a huge amount to get her crowns. I told him how much the bill was. He never even asked how I came up with the money. He got really angry at me tonight for not letting DD skip brushing her teeth starting audibly saying it within earshot & I lost it. I asked him if he was going go come up with the money for more dental work and if he’d even noticed that he never asked me where I got that much money.

That’s just one example. I feel like his parent when it comes to money. Like he’s living at home and paying his mother rent money but completely switching off after that.

He never makes a plan. I’ve paid for holidays and he doesn’t acknowledge it.

He gets a company car with his job which costs him in BIK. I drive a banger and hardly spend anything on myself because I want to prioritise the kids’ futures.

He hasn’t gotten a pay rise ever in his job which he does work very hard at to be fair. He’ll moan but has never tried to get a better paid job.

He also works in credit - he approves loans. That to me is the biggest joke because he looks at other people’s spending all day and he doesn’t even know how much his own mortgage is.

Any advice welcome but please don’t tell me
go pool finances, there is absolutely no way I’d do that with him.

I have also accepted that he is never going to do anything at all proactively about money so I need to implement any changes.

I need advice on how go run a joint account - rainy day savings etc. in a joint manner. And how to move past someone being so bloody child like about money.

Yeah it is tricky, from personal experience I have found Monzo brilliant for this, you can have different 'pots' for things like you describe (and savings etc) and then the app automatically categorises spending (so a sainsburys shop will be identified as 'groceries', Spotify as 'entertainment', a coffee as 'eating out', but you can also edit the categories yourself and then you can see a breakdown of each category. The app makes it really clear what you are spending and will even give you predictions on if you are on track to overspend. Promise this isnt an ad, hah! You might have a Monzo account already though in which case I'll shut up!

Annual fixed expenses… divide by 12 and put that away each month, depending on how far away you are from it. If you are 7 months from renewing the tv licence, divide by 7 this time, then by 12 for the next year. In theory this means the money is sitting in that pot when you need to pay. Same for variable ones, but you have to guesstimate the total needed. Look back over a year of spending and count up, for example, what you’ve spent on children’s clothes and shoes.

Oh and another Monzo thing that would be helpful in your circumstances, you can have a running tab... so say you pay for the boiler out of your personal spends, because DH doesnt have enough, you can then assign that payment to your joint tab, which will.split it 50/50 or you can adjust the split if you decide to go 60/40, then he can settle up and pay you back through there. And then you have a record of extra spends so you can adjust the amounts you are putting in the joint account accordingly, and you have a record of times you have needed to cover him.

A big yes. You've tried discussing and it falls on deaf ears. Time to take control and TELL HIM what he has to contribute and how the finances will be run going forward, i.e. make your own plan as to which accounts the bills are paid out, when/how much he has to put it, etc. The time for a nice little chat has long passed.

Open a joint account and pay ALL household expenses out of it. Medical care, holidays, social expenditure, everuthing you do together or as a family. Each pay in half what you believe you need each month... if it runs short you then both have to have a conversation about how you are covering it.

Your current system is allowing him to bury his head in the sand, not take responsibility, and not face the reality of how much you are subsidising him.
I'd recommend the system we use. We have our own separate accounts each and a joint account for family payments (mortgage, gas, electricity, water, phone, food, toiletries, petrol, kids clothes, kids clubs etc).
We are paid into our own accounts and have a direct debit sent to the joint account each month in proportion to our salaries.
If the joint account runs low either we have to increase the direct debits or need to both put in a one off payment to top it up.

Have his wages paid into your account and send him spending money (with his agreement). If you're managing all the bills anyway this is is the most effective and least stressful way to do it.

This seems like a good plan?

I have a monthly bill account, annual spends 1 for savings, insurances, dental, mot, service, car repair buffer and holiday. Then an everyday account for food, days out, clothes etc.

Could you have joint accounts - equal to bills then a % to annual costs and everyday spends? Whatever is left can stay in own accounts for personal spends.

I was totally with you until you said you want him to pay 50% of the household bills although you earn 30% more. Or did I misunderstand? Joint household expenses should be covered pro rata on earnings from a joint account. What is left, is each person's personal money in their account. Joint account contribution can also take into account annual holidays etc, but again on a pro rata to earnings basis. If he can't do that consistently, then it's time to have a serious talk.

I will never understand why some women actively put themselves in a prison cell they don't need to be in. You married and made a life with a loser and now you're asking advice for how to sort out his uselessness instead of just leaving him? ugh

You put it aside monthly into pots. So my DH is crap with money thankfully he recognises that, I wouldn't fully pool money because watching how much he spends on comics would make me cry. I have a spreadsheet it takes in what we both earn (ours fluctuates due to on call etc yours may not) it then deducts all bills, including groceries, household spends, amounts for annual bills that go into a separate savings account by standing order until they need paying but almost everything possible is on DDebit, each month a set amount also goes to various other accounts for joint savings, DC savings, and what I call the slush fund for things like car repairs, house stuff etc, we also have a holiday fund, there is also an account for monthly spending on DC. Whatever is left is split in two so we get the same disposable income. I earn more than DH , I don't begrudge him the money because he's worked really hard retrained done another degree on the job and professional qualifications (as have I) , but even though you do begrudge the money to your husband the way it is now he has more disposable income than you anyway. This way he isn't paying 50 50 from a lower salary, but all of the stuff that's extra you are currently paying for is covered, savings are covered and you get the same amount to spend on yourselves.

Personally, I wouldn't start with agreeing how much personal money he 'needs' as it sends the wrong message and you could still end up subsidising him.

I would start with the necessities (including anything child related) and how it's divided up. Then agree how much goes into savings and holiday fund each month from each of you.
What's left in each of your accounts is personal money. If he can't afford his hobbies then he needs to earn more money if he wishes to continue with them. If you are happy to contribute towards the cost that's up to you but it needs to be clear to him that he can't actually afford the lifestyle he's living on his current wage.

If he refuses to engage in the conversation and calculations then he will have to accept the figures you give him and arrange the standing orders.

If you don't want the hassle of moving bill payments to a separate bills account, you could make your existing account the one for bills and set up an additional one for your personal money.

Has he made any plans for finances during retirement? Does he pay into a pension or is he expecting you to fund that too?

I agree with that. Too many people walk into relationships with rose coloured glasses thinking they can "change" the man in years to come. It never works.

Either make them change their ways or walk away before you get in too deep, i.e. before children, before buying a house together (or other joint financial obligations).

Sensible response re why you don't pool finances! It would drive me mad so I completely understand where you're coming from, especially given his job - oh the irony! Why would a grown man NOT want involvement in the day to day finances?

Been with mine for nearly 30 years and we have our own accounts for out own money and a joint account that all bills get paid from. We put in an agreed amount each month (him more than me as his earnings are significantly more since I started working part time after having our first child). Hopefully yours would take more of a mature response once he saw the amounts going out each month and realised you're both working hard to cover that?

This is definitely the most practical solution.
include things like haircuts, car spends, dental appointments, clothing for kids, kids activities - literally everything you spend as a family over the course of the year. Divide this up by 12, add it to the allocated amount going in to the joint account every month for bills and then set up pots for each item so that he can see exactly how much money is available for every expenditure.
we use Monzo for this, it’s brilliant.

I think the problem is all the bills come out of your account so how would he know what the mortgage etc is? Your finances are set up a bit like him contributing and just seeing that as his duty sorted and you taking care of all the finances. My husband would be the same which is why we have one joint account for all income and expenditure and we each have the same amount for personal spends into sole accounts. The amount that goes into our sole accounts has changed over the years depending on income and expenses. All expenses including family holidays, dental work etc, cars come out of the joint account too. Presumably he needs the car for his job so nothing you can do about that but ideally you would have a joint savings account to save for your daughters dental work and a new car for you and a holiday. If a lot of his personal money goes on golf you should get the same amount even if you save it towards a new car. I do get it is a pain when you are the only one worrying about finances. I have been there but my husband did get better.

I think you're being fair. He should man up and take a responsibility to provide seriously.

Do his friends and family know the way he relies on you?

So if I were you, I'd agree on keeping the money basically the same for the direct debits (make sure you review annually as of course they usually go up every year!), but then I'd open a second joint bank account for savings, which you both put an equal amount in a month. Make sure he doesn't have easy access to this account (keep his card and make it a different bank so it doesn't auto link online) and then this is the fund where family spends/unexpected bills come from.
To be honest, from what you've said I don't think any of his spending is particularly unreasonable, but the bigger issue is the rising cost of living and the lack of an increase in earnings to even slightly offset it. I fear the only way for him to learn is the hard way, so you are going to have to not sub him if he runs out of money before payday. Eventually he will realise he needs to earn more money. It's very hard to leave a job you know and are comfortable in, so I can understand why he isn't keen, but like you say, you are subsidising his lifestyle so he has no need to even consider it.

This is not a good idea. If anything happened to the OP the husband would have no access to money or information about bills. It also looks like financial abuse even if with his agreement. He is an adult. He earns money so he has a right to know where it is being spent. Other safeguards can be put in to make sure he doesn’t overspend.

You are married to a toddler trapped in a man's body. You want a partner, and he's clearly not that - because a man-child like him can't be a partner. So far, you've tolerated being his mummy who does everything for him, but it sounds like you're reaching your limit with him. Understandably.

You seriously, seriously, seriously need to give this man space to grow up. He's not going to do it while he lives with mummy - i.e. YOU. In your shoes, I'd either ask him to move out or move out myself. Tell him you can live together again when he has learned how to be a man who can be a partner to you, step up and take on some adult responsibility in your relationship and household.

I don’t think his spending looks unreasonable at all glance but things add up. He can’t really afford golf because he just doesn’t make enough. Then he is in the pub (1-2 pints but after often), having the odd takeaway and lunches out.

It doenst look like huge luxury at a glance but he just doesn’t make enough to do those those things while we have two kids and a mortgage.

And I totally get why he doesn’t want to move jobs, but I’m also frustrated that he won’t put his own comfort aside to step up and support his family.

How do you not get a pay rise over that many years??? Are you sure he hasn't gotten a pay rise or he's just lying and diverting the extra?

No single payrise in that many years makes absolutely no sense at all. I can understand below inflation payrises or crap payrises etc but no payrise at all???

Have you got to the bottom of why he is like this? Has something triggered this in him? I only ask as I am terrible with money, this is a direct result of watching my very sensible with money parents do everything to stay within their budget, but because of a bit of bad advice (endowment policy & interest only mortgage) they still ended up screwed. This made me go f**k it, it’s all a con anyway, for many years & it was only after facing up to why I felt that way that I could change my attitude. It may not be a case of he wants to act this way.

Me and my husband have 3 accounts, mine, his and ours. We each transfer an agreed amount in to the ours account. This covers all household expenses. What we keep in our accounts is neaither of our business.

I have next to no cash because I buy stuff, my husband has money because he doesnt. He doesnt get annoyed at me because its not damaging the house hold.