Financially dependent

[WiseMaker]

Ladies who have been financially dependent on their husband and knew the marriage was probably over … did you prepare financially before leaving, or did you start the separation/divorce process first and work things out from there?
I feel like I’m going round in circles.
My husband has three sons, 22, 19 and 16, and we also have a young daughter together. His sons have mostly lived with us but the two eldest moved out for some time to their mums, but that arrangement has now broken down and they’re moving back into our home. Unsure exactly why as we only hear one side of the story, and I completely understand they are his children, but I feel I have very little say in something that will have a huge impact on our home and on my daughter.
There have also been some quite difficult issues with them ..one has recently stolen money from his dad’s company, another uses steroids and can have a temper, and there are concerns around the youngest’s behaviour too. It’s made me realise how little control or security I actually have within the family situation.
Deep down, I think I know my marriage is over. But I have been financially dependent on my husband for a long time, and whenever I have talked about leaving he has made it very clear that I shouldn’t expect him to financially support me if I do.
I’m now starting to work again and trying to build myself and my income back up, but I don’t know whether I should quietly get myself into the strongest possible position first, or whether I’m just delaying the inevitable because I’m scared of the financial side.
For anyone who has been in a similar position, what did you do before you left? Did you speak to a solicitor first? Save money? Get back into work? Gather financial information? Or did you just reach a point where you had to go and deal with the practicalities afterwards?
I’d really appreciate hearing from women who have actually been through this.

Is your home rented or owned?

I went to uni. Had a wonderful time, School hours and holidays, good for my child. As single parent there are bursaries and bits of money available.

He won’t support you if you don’t have children so start being independent. You should get around 50% of the matrimonial assets and only you know if that’s sufficient for your housing needs. If it’s not, how will you manage? Work is probably the only answer or find someone else!

@MeetMeOnTheCorner The OP says they have a dd together.

A lot depends on your set up
do you rent or jointly own a house
does he give you any money ?
Are you working PT or FT
wgst sort if company does he own ?
Do you have someone to stay with ?’

You do know as a wife you can have upto 50% claim on everything he owns ?

But I have been financially dependent on my husband for a long time, and whenever I have talked about leaving he has made it very clear that I shouldn’t expect him to financially support me if I do.

Legally you are entitled to a percentage of the marital assets such as house equity, savings, investments and pensions. You are also entitled to CMS if DD lives with you more than 50%.

Get legal advice first and try and either get a job or start putting some savings away for a rental deposit, food etc. Have a look at one of the benefits websites or CAB to see if you can get any help there. Make a plan before telling him.

Think also about whether he will pursue shared care of your dd or what the access arrangements will be. Will your dd be in the home with her dad and his sons during access time and does that pose any sort of risk?

I am curious with your step son who has steroid and temper issues how safe do you and your DD feel in your home? That would significantly impact my decision making - ultimately if it's not safe for your daughter than I would be making decisions now regardless of the finances to safeguard her.

How long have you been married? How old is your children?

Over the last few years Judges have been keen to have clean break agreements which means financial settlements, rather than ongoing support...however it depends on the finances available, length of marriage, age of both parties, age of children.CMS would be payable and you can calculate how much that would be.

If he has said he will fight support then unfortunately it would appear court might need to be involved which is expensive for both parties. Best to get advice from a solicitor, usually a one off consultation that would be chargeable but a good investment.

However reality, get yourself financially independent, as it's the best long-term strategy for yourself and child

Is the only issue his children? If so is there a long term view, slas due to their ages they are unlikely to live at home long-term. Also surely your husband wouldn't want any harm to come to his youngest child?:

We’ve been married three years and have an 8year old daughter together about 10 years. We actually separated after Covid when things became very difficult with his sons. There was shouting and behaviour that affected both me and my daughter. I moved out and, although it was difficult initially, things eventually settled. His boys apologised, relationships improved and we decided to try again and got married. He promised things wouldn’t go back to how they were, but lately I feel they slowly are, just with different issues.
My main fear about leaving is financial. When I mention separation, my husband says he won’t provide for me or even give anything.. He has a business and two properties, all in his name. I worked in his company while pregnant and brought in a major client, so he paid me a salary, but about a year ago that stopped and now all money goes through him. Around the same time he cashed in his pension and transferred the money to a European account, which made me suspicious and concerned about how difficult he might make things.
I’ve started working again, but rebuilding an income takes time, especially as we moved from London to the countryside while he still commutes into London every day. I’ve realised I need some security of my own.
If the only issue was his children, perhaps I’d feel differently, but our relationship itself feels increasingly lonely. He rarely wants to talk or spend time together and says he just wants peace and to be left alone, while I’m expected to carry on around him and now his adult children too. It leaves me questioning what I’m actually getting from the relationship beyond him providing financially, which he seems to believe should be enough.
For now I’ll see how things go with his sons moving back, while building my independence and getting some legal advice. Thanks for all the responses.

I’m guessing your late 30’s -40’s
is he much older - wanting to be left alone peace and quite.?

Does he rent his house ?
Hes definitely moved to pension so you can’t get to it , that’s not a normal husband thing to do
hes protecting his assets

When I mention separation, my husband says he won't provide for me or even give me anything

It wouldn't be up to him, it would be up to the courts.

Please start gathering as much financial evidence as possible, because if he gets wind of the fact that you really are planning to leave, then he will just hide as much of it as he can.

I’m 42 and he’s 54 Initially, the age difference wasn’t an issue.but yes now wants peace and quiet, no connection or communication unless it’s about himself.

No, he owns the house we live in and another house in London. I wouldn’t want to try to take loads from him, and I’d even feel uncomfortable with 50/50 because he owned the London house before we met. The house we live in now was bought when we moved out of London together, but it’s in his name as we weren’t married at the time.

But when he tells me that if I leave I won’t get anything, that he won’t help me and that it will all be my fault, it actually pushes me towards just using a lawyer and leaving it up to them to work out what is fair. when I feel like he’s controlling the finances, it makes me think he’s going to be difficult if we do separate so I just have to prepare for that..

@WiseMaker if you can't see a way forward in your marriage then consider taking legal advice asap. However due to your age and child's age, you will be encouraged to earn your own income as usually any spousal support is time limited. Around 3 years. CMS would be payable, if you have majority of care up until 18, so you can work that out.

I don't think (from what you have said) 50/50 asset split would be likely but as mentioned earlier, gather up financial data. However if a man tells you he will fight to stop you getting money, believe him! A court will assist but they do not routinely investigate assets, they trust the information the parties are submitting.

Do you have access to any savings? Do you have your own pension? If not then you would be wise to focus on your personal financial independence as a pension is essential if you are in your 40s. Don't rely on what a court might award you, it isn't often as favourable as you might hope for.

Being marriage offers you some protection so you do have that but most women can't rely on a man for financial independence, especially if he has been through 1 divorce before...he is likely to be more protective over his money!

This ^. Take photos of bank statements and any financial stuff . He will try to hide money etc . The courts will decide what you get not him . See a solicitor if you can .

I would suggest that you are very careful and go through paperwork before the sons move back in. You need to cover your tracks and put things back exactly but at least you can take photos and keep that hidden. If he gets wind then he will hide stuff as will the sons - he is their father and their inheritance. I assume you have your own bank account and your salary gets paid into that. Are the sons paying their way and feeding themselves? If not then do not pay for their housekeeping out of your money.

That’s the thing .. they’ve already moved back. There was talks about it before but then we went on holiday and they were staying at the house, and when we returned he just told me they were living with us again. That’s when I realised I don’t actually have much say over my own home situation.

I’ll give them a chance but I kind of know how it will end. The middle one uses steroids and gambles, and previously flipped out before being asked to leave. Wants to be a millionaire but doesn’t want to work.. The eldest has had issues with drugs/vaping and gambling, and not long ago stole from his dad’s company. But there never seem to be any real consequences, he hasn’t even paid back the money as he spent it .. so I struggle to see how anything will change. My husband seems to think they’ll just learn and change by themselves by being caught out.. they said their mum wanted her flat back, although I don’t really know what happened there. My husband doesn’t speak to his ex, so we only ever hear one side of things.

Now I feel like I have to keep hiding things in my own home and getting locks on doors. The middle one works part-time in his dad’s company and the eldest works there full-time, so they’re both usually home by the afternoon.

He doesn’t really keep paperwork at home as most of it is at work, but I’ll have a look and see what I can find. I think I already know the answers I just need to prepare for it if it doesn’t work out.. I feel like it’s all fine if everything is on his terms and not speaking up.. just when I’ve contacted lawyers before they want to know all the home details and financials but I guess I’ll try to find someone who doesn’t ask for all.

I would focus on working and putting some money aside to get legal advice. Don’t let him bully you into thinking you’ll come out of it with nothing. He will likely have to do a full financial disclosure. Even if working gets you out of the house and gives you more confidence, that’s a good thing. Also see if you may be entitled to benefits living separately with your daughter. It must be a rough situation to be in.

Your husband can say whatever he likes but the courts will decide whay you get not him. In this case Id leave now. You are better off with no money when looking for benefits and housing and legal aid as I found out.
Call womens aid for some up to date good advice. You can worry about a job later.

Until you leave, find some way of locking away any valuables. And I’d make it very clear that if they steal from you the police will be involved. He needs to know that you will not be walked all over.

Take your time. Go through every drawer and file, check all bank statements and every scrap of paperwork. If his banking is online get all bank account numbers including the european one. If he pays into a joint account or money to you or bills note which account he pays from . Make sure child benefit is in your name. Do nothing without legal advice. They will ask about house and financials as those are important in advising you. Check the entitled to website.

just when I’ve contacted lawyers before they want to know all the home details and financials but I guess I’ll try to find someone who doesn’t ask for all

They will need details, even approx if they can advise you. Caution however as data has to be obtained legally. Please review Imerman rules.

You must know house values, even approx, value of his business, turnover? If a limited company it will show on companies house. What bank accounts do you have access to.

Does he have a Will? If so what provision is made for you daughter, could you ask him about this?

Does he pay maintenance/support to the Ex wife? Was there a divorce agreement and have you seen copies of this?

‘He has made it very clear that I shouldn’t expect him to financially support me if I do.’ Yeah, well that’s not for him to decide…it does however give an insight into his mindset so he will likely (if not already doing so) do all he can to ensure you get a minimum.

It’s great that you’re getting back to work but remember your savings will count as the marital pot alongside anything of his.

Personally I’d start getting copies of as much financial history as you can…mortgage loans cards accounts…business and personal.

Find the best divorce solicitors in your area and get your free 30mins with all of them - I believe (happy to stand corrected - that if they’ve spoken with you, he can’t then engage them due to conflict of interest.

All that aside though…put your own mental/physical health to the top of your agenda…if staying longer than you need to is going to impact that then make your move as soon as circumstances allow. Life’s too short to spend it in a relationship you already know is over.

When you left previously where did you stay - rent,parents,friends. ?

Did you get any money from him then ? As I guess you weren’t working so was it benefits ?

The thing is all solicitor want to know what each if you own, it’s common practice they have too
You both have to fill in a form saying what each if you have
house
car
pension
stocks/shares
isa
savings
investments

He will s… himself as he has 2 houses, company,pension plus maybe any of the above
You don’t really get to say, I don’t want that etc but you could trade each other
like if you owned a house and he did - trade one for the other

I think it’s best you leave first because he’s going to go ape shit because I’m presuming you have nothing to trade ?
You say you wouldnt feel right with 50/50 , but you want something as you need to look after your dd . You’ve lived with him 10yrs ,keeping house , looking after 3 boys , then working in the company. You want a fair offer .

If he gives you no money and you have to contribute from your wage for
rent & food then I’m sure you can get UC benefit as your living as a single person . Can’t be sharing a bed thou ?

You present it as a done deal.

"I've been to a divorce solicitor and know my rights. I am getting a divorce." (Having shown the solicitor as much evidence as you can get).

Do not discuss it with him as a hypothetical situation

It puts him one step behind.