MIL advice

[SageCloudtrip]

NC because you just never know who's watching 👀

At every family event, my MIL has been condescending, cruel, toxic and belittling to me, my DH, my DC and FIL.

Without going into outing details, having to spend time with her has been taking a huge mental toll on me. I have already been a no-show to a few annual get togethers and I'm trying to remove myself, as much as possible, from seeing her at all, where possible.

We have an annual celebration we always invite her to but, due to her behaviour, I want to opt out of inviting her this year. This makes me and DH sad, because FIL is such a nice person and he doesn't deserve to be excluded, but MIL and FIL come as a package (which makes sense) so there is not another option.

Even though she is how she is, she's almost 80 years old, so I don’t want to be mean or have a confrontation. There's no point, in my mind, in making her see how bad her behaviour is because, when confronted, challenged or even gently approached about the things she says and does and how they make others feel, she makes things insanely dramatic and becomes the victim instead of acknowledging that she's the problem.

So, would it be a good idea to tell her we are cancelling this year due to work or some other reason?

If she pushes for details, what’s a polite but firm reason we can give that shuts down any back and forth without sounding cruel? She loves to control things, so I'm sure she will try to suggest alternate dates etc to be "helpful" but it's not happening.

Further to this, I don't know how to not give her false hope that we'll be reinstating this get together next year.

It's over and I just want to be firm but as kind as possible.

Is it just your family? How many other guests usually are invited?

@user1492757084 Good morning. Yes, just usually me, DH, DC and MIL and FIL. We used to invite extended family, including BIL/SIL, but they stopped coming, due to MIL, as did the rest of the family. She told me that she didn't want me inviting others, and I think they were relieved to not be invited again, even though I didn't tell them what she'd requested. So, for a number of years, it's been a really small gathering.

Can your DH arrange a Men's fishing weekend? Then FIL can have a lovely time with DH and some other nice men.

Then you and some of the families of the other men could drop by with a picnic for an hour or two. Choose the river to be beautiful but wild and a bit inhospitable for old ladies.

She does sound toxic. I assume you know full well that if you call her out, she'll probably start crying...
I'm not a MIL, I am in all but marriage to my 4 year old granddaughter and some of the anti MIL posts terrify me!

Families change, dynamics change. I'm not sure what the celebration is for but start with - we've decided to do something different this year - go here, or go there (go anywhere!) and obviously it will be such a hugely pleasant success for the children that you've decided to do it next year. And the year after..
It is a shame for FIL but hopefully it's easier to see them in in smaller doses so nobody misses out.

That's such a lovely idea! Unfortunately, FIL isn't exactly mobile but, even if he were, MIL is so controlling, she would make his life hell if he went anywhere without her. For example, DH took him and BIL to a nearby country so he could see where his own father fought in WW2, but was hounded to death by MIL via text for the whole time he was away. When he didn't answer fast enough, MIL text the sons to get a response. She truly is insufferable. Everything has to be about her or she makes everyone else's life a living hell.

Instead of cancelling the usual meet up, consider making the gathering for a much shorter time and at an outdoor venue. MIL's voice will not be as loud and guests can wander off to smell flowers, collect leaves or shells etc. Thinking of FIL.
You, DC and DH could then go out for a meal afterwatds and debrief about the terrible MIL.

Make every holiday phone free from now on.
Check emergency phone deep in a pocket once a day in case of a death or change of flight time.

We do this and it is liberating.

She sounds exactly like my MIL! We have really stepped back from seeing both of them, she’s a narcissist - good luck but yes I’d definitely cancel the annual get together

My MIL is like this and she’s 15 years older than yours. Trust me, these types never die!

Does your husband have your back?

Yes, he recognises how toxic she is and has been telling me, for years, to cut ties. He always tells me I'm too nice to the detriment of myself. I'm glad that he is on my side. I can't imagine the hardship of dealing with her and a son that added to the problem!

Is it a set date every year?

If not, can you go ahead and just do it. Don't mention it and if she asks you can either say, 'Oh we didn't bother this year' or (if feeling braver) 'We thought it would be too much for you now so we just went ourselves'.

Either way I wouldn't invite her.

The best way to deal with this is to be honest OP. Tell her she’s not invited because of her behaviour. It’s not a good idea to skirt around these issues when dealing with horrible people.

That is sage advice if you aren't dealing with a mentally unstable person. Every thing I've read suggests not directly confronting, challenging or addressing her behaviour. That advice is interesting because, before I read it, DH and I tried to talk to her and she had an absolute melt down, dragged FIL into it and started a family war. Won't be approaching it the same way this time or ever!

Yes, it's a semi-fixed date but your suggestion sounds just up my street. Thank you.

My ex had a mum like this. It was truly unbearable and it broke up our relationship as she interfered in everything and my ex couldn’t stand up to her. There was literally no talking to her about it - the histrionics were unmanageable if you tried to tackle her to stop her doing something, much less criticise her! She wasn’t horrible, it was definitely some kind of MH.

Anyway I like the pp suggestion of being mild and evasive about just not inviting her.

Your poor FIL must be totally browbeaten. But he can’t be saved at this stage.

Believe me I know about dealing with mentally unstable people. Honesty is still the best policy. Everything else is just game playing. I’m not saying sit her down to talk about her behaviour in the hope she’ll change or reflect, I’m saying do not change your behaviour and start lying to her. Just tell her she’s not invited and leave it at that. Do not concoct the tall tales some of these posters are suggesting because then you’re bringing yourself down to her level.

I appreciate what you're saying but I have experienced being honest with her and it just won't work. Some people are not emotionally or mentally stable enough to accept accountability, responsibility, criticism or have the capacity for introspection. I'm okay to lie to spare her feelings and give myself peace. It's fine.

Your poor FIL must be totally browbeaten. But he can’t be saved at this stage.

This is so true!! Me and DH talk about this a lot. We are so sad that he is being excluded by association but, as you've said, he can't be saved. We're not the first to take this course of action but we definitely let this ride out for years longer than other people who abandoned them, due to her behaviour, at very early stages! My SIL has not attended any holidays, apart from Christmas and Easter, for many years!

Then go for that approach. But again, I’m not saying sit her down to talk to her about x, y, z. My point was go about your life without lying and just don’t invite her. Those are two very different things. You can set a boundary with someone without lying to them.

I can't do what you're suggesting. She'll ask me why I'm not having the event or choosing to not invite her. Either query will lead to a confrontation if I tell her the truth. She'll remind me that the event is coming up because we have it every year for 20+ years. I won't even have to bring it up at all. So, again, not possible.

She must be really awful for you to be so scared to be honest with her. I’d cut her completely out and just take the consequences of that myself but I understand you wanting to have fIL around. The trouble is it’s kind people like yourself that have enabled her behaviour over the years. I hope you find a solution that works for you x

Thank you for understanding. I'm not scared to be honest with her and I'm not afraid of her. I just know how she'll react and she will use whatever she can as an excuse for more toxicity that will spill over onto other people. She will do this, anyway, but I don't want her to use me as the reason, if that makes sense. I don't want to affect DH relationship with FIL, because MIL isolates him when she's trying to be vindictive, so it's damage limitation as much as possible etc.

You're 100% correct that she's been enabled her whole life. Her passive husband, her kids that just roll her eyes and the fragility of a MIL/DIL dynamic has allowed her to abuse her position. People who don't have these ties, like her own sister, SIL, MIL etc were very direct with her so she was cut off or she cut them off.

It's just so weird to have to be in this surreal situation but I'm truly exhausted by it after all of these years. Thanks for listening. I do appreciate all of the suggestions and everyone for lending an ear.

It is possible, but you don’t want to do it, which is fair enough. But as @bonkersbongo says, approaches like this just enable her behaviour. This is what is being modelled for your DC: that bullies get their own way and lying is acceptable when you don’t want to deal with consequences.

I am not saying this to aggravate you. As someone who didn’t invite her own mother to her wedding (and yes, she did know when it was and that we were getting married), I do understand the difficulty.

My DC is almost 30 and already cut MIL off so it doesn't impact at all.

I do see where you're coming from but if you look up "confronting a narcissist" you'll see that the advice you are giving with good intent is the exact opposite of what psychologists and therapists recommend and for the reasons I sadly learned were valid in retrospect.

The wording you use is really interesting. Why would you need to confront her in this situation? You are blowing this up out of proportion I’m afraid. I’m not saying lead an intervention or confront her or anything of the sort. I’m just saying go about your plans with honesty and when she asks why she’s not invited then tell her it’s because of her behaviour at past events. That’s it. She can kick off as much as she likes but you know you don’t have to listen to it, right?

Anyway, that’s just my advice, I appreciate it might not be the approach you want to take.