Struggling to stay close to a friend in an abusive relationship

[Hotoutisntit]

I’m not sure how to go about this relationship with my friend, I’m finding it increasingly more difficult. I first want to start by saying that I was in my friends position, not as physically bad but it was bad. My friend is in/not in/in again an abusive relationship. I left right after having my first child and that was it. She has gone on to have another child despite the fact he beat the hell out of her multiple times and he should be in jail. She sends me pictures of when the times are good and I’m not able to respond to those pictures anymore because this man should not be near her children, but she won’t do anything about it. She tells me she would never be in the position to give them what he can. I have tried to reason with her but nothing works, I simply can’t understand what’s happening. For me the first moment it happened in front of my child I left. Why is she not protecting her children from him? He isn’t really that bothered about being a parent anyway and she kind of forces him to bother, I can’t understand this.

I totally get this OP and I feel similar about a friend of mine.
I can't be bothered to listen to constant moaning whilst not doing anything to change it.

I have a friend whose OH was extremely controlling and has only relaxed in recent years. I was unable, and to some degree still am unable to have a relationship with her that didn’t involve him playing third wheel. If anything it was worse when DC were little. I never did anything but tolerate it. It’s her marriage after all. I didn’t interfere but I would quietly fume.

I had to step away from a very good friend in similar circumstances.
She left him many time, and did for good a few years ago. He threatened suicide so she agreed to tell people they were living apart but still together.
The mental abuse has been horrific - last time, recently, he threatened one of her adult daughters. The emails and messages he sent her all got forwarded by her to me and I wasn’t coping.
I thought he might kill her they were that bad.
He absolutely crossed the line.
Then she told me she’d seen him to forgive him. I still had all the messages saved and they were just vile, full of threats.
I thought the threat to her child was a red line. She did tell some of her family about the abuse and they all agreed to go NC with him.
He has now found God and is telling her he needs to win her back.
I am now at a distance and will stay there.
It is never easy being the friend of a DV victim but if its too much, it’s too much.

The children need to be your priority as difficult as it is I would be contacting social services and telling her why, and that you want to be there to support her if you feel you can. Unfortunately if the children are in the same house as what sounds like horrendous violence and abuse they are also suffering abuse by witnessing it. You need to help those children.

I was a victim myself, not to this scale in terms of the physical side. I just can’t understand why she would want to be in the same room as him, even more so why she wants the children in the same room. I suppose I can understand why she’d go back but to put her kids near this man and actively seek it I’m lost to be honest. She knows what he’s like, she understands it’s abuse. In a couple of weeks she is going to be at breaking point again and it goes round. I know she has lost a lot of friends in cycles because of this. Part of me thinks is she staying because it gets her sympathy, would someone do that?

I understand abuse, I get it’s so difficult to leave. But doesn’t there have to be a point where you actively choosing it.

David Mandel, an American specialist in domestic violence, men's violence against women and girls, family systems and child protection, has written a book; 'Stop Blaming Mothers and Ignoring Fathers' which is on my reading list. He's an educator working in social policy and safeguarding, and I can't wait to get his angle on how we pivot away from holding mothers to different standards than abusive fathers, a view which prevails in my line of work and where, despite colleagues being trained to know better, I regularly encounter victim blaming and a tendency to place the burden of responsibility for protecting children on a terrified, humiliated, coerced, exhausted, wrong-footed, blindsided and desperate mother, despite it not being her who is the primary perpetrator of harm.

Abusive men groom whole spheres of people -friends and professionals- connected to their abusive relationship into a state of coerced silence where their behaviour is allowed to go unchallenged because the interventions and conditions are focused on the female partner.

I understand that it is difficult to see your friend suffer while simultaneously trying to convince the world -and quite likely herself- that he's not that bad. But you all know he is, and at least you get to not live her life. Perhaps it is even more triggering for you as you lived through a similar time yourself, although you managed to get out early. Please don't turn your back on your friend. Is there a way that you can deepen your connection and the type of conversations you have, giving her space to share, knowing she doesn't have to 'persuade' you her bloke is OK, or that you'll think less of her if she's truthful and opens up to you. Don't let him succeed in isolating her further.

Thank you for taking the time to write this.

She does not persuade me he is good, she tells me outright he is bad. She has shown me some of the awful images of what he has done. Yet she doesn’t seem to be afraid of him. I don’t understand it.
It feels like she can’t let him go as much he he can’t.

One minute I’ve seen awful images, awful messages, downright disgusting messages and in the next minute a family day out. One where she has instigated on behalf of the kids. A man that’s done what he’s done should not be allowed to see his kids. These things he’s done he should be in jail.

@OneNewLeader Honestly, I could go on about this all day, every day.

@Hotoutisntit I was referring to when your friend sends photos of 'good times' and family days out -she's almost certainly trying to reassure both you and herself that, although she knows you know just how dangerous her partner is, he's got some redeeming features too and isn't 'all bad'. The cognitive dissonance of a cowed, coerced spouse is complex. And it's only natural, in the face of pity and knowing others feel sorry and concerned for her, that she tries to signal some kind of normal functioning in order to preserve a sense of dignity.

You're in a position to have done what many women in coercive and violent relationships dream of doing, yet find themselves, for a variety of reasons, unable to do. This almost puts you in a kind of empathy deficit, as does your feeling of needing to understand what makes it so: because you could leave your abuser, you struggle to make sense of why she feels she can't. If you really want to be a support and advocate for your friend, you may need to let go of the idea that you need to understand how she is functioning and reasoning. There are probably very few things in her life that really make sense even to her -maintaining a sense of confusion and uncertainty is standard DV playbook for forging and maintaining a strong trauma-bond. I understand that it is infuriating not to 'get' how she's making choices that put both her and her DC in harm's way. But she is. You can either chase your tail trying to understand, or accept it's outwith your capacity to make sense of, and choose to support her anyway. But please support her from a deeper place than trying to reason with her -she has probably been reasoning with herself, and judging her own choices for years.

You say she doesn't seem afraid of him. Abusers rely on family keeping up appearances and not letting the DA 'cat' out of the bag. He doesn't want her cowering and shrinking from him when others are around -he likely doesn't identify publicly as a violent abuser, so your friend knows not to act as if he is. That's my guess.

Edited to add image credit: David Mandel 'Stop Blaming Mothers and Ignoring Fathers'.

I totally get PP.
I got to the stage where I was that worried I wasn’t sleeping or eating properly.
What do you do then, when it is affecting your own health?
When one minute you are asked if you would be a police witness over a man who is a dangerous abuser, and the next minute you are told he is being forgiven as he’s found God?
I helped my friend leave and to be fair she’s stayed in her new home. It was provided for her as a victim of DV in a very secure building with a warden. A week in he said he needed a key or he would kill himself.
So the people who provided the home were then shocked. How can they provide a secure home?
My friend’s abuser took one of her siblings on holiday and also became her emergency person. She found out her sibling was in hospital and her abuser was at the bedside speaking to doctors.
He actually said in a message and I’m paraphrasing - I know longer give a f*ck around any consequences, I don’t care, I want to hurt you and I will. Let God forgive me.
My friend isn’t isolated. Her family helped her to leave. She has a few good friends who have done the same.
And she said, well, he’s found God now so I’ve decided we can be friends. She was going to a DV group and getting counselling but she stopped.
We are all exhausted. I got to the stage where there’s nothing I can do.

You probably had friends who couldn't understand why you stayed with your ex throughout pregnancy/birth etc.
He will be controlling her, it won't be as simple as pack bags and leave. He is likely to be controlling everything including money. Maybe she financially is not able to leave

I've been on both sides of the story. I was in a horrifically abusive relationship. Friends weren't great with me. One delicately said to me, "either shit or get off the pot", meaning either leave him or stop moaning about it to me. Another said that at least I lived in a nice house, had nice holidays and had good memories. No one understood or empathised and trying to explain it to them compounded the abuse. I also have a friend who has been in an abusive relationship. I have done nothing but support her, offering both emotional and practical help. It's been incredibly difficult to stand by and watch her stay with him. I put a lot of distance between us at one point, as I just couldn't cope with seeing her do nothing (despite understanding why she wasn't leaving). It's really not easy.

Are social services involved?

Everyone knows. Her entire family have given up really. He has been in jail before for 2 previous relationships. He doesn’t pretend to be anything, he is a thug.

I probably should have said this before but she has had a child from a previous relationship that she isn’t allowed to see. I fully suspect that this is because this man came along, beat her face so badly that the father stopped any contact. But this wasn’t enough and she is still with this man. Well she does have her own place and so does he so there is no need for the relationship to continue financially.

It’s a real mess. I found myself drawn in trying to “save”. I thought that my help would be of help but she just glosses it all over. I don’t want to be like all her other friends who’ve just walked away but I don’t know what else to do because it’s awful to watch. Whats hard is she knows, there is no hidden abuse, she’s been to a refuge she’s done all that but she went back.

If she leaves its very likely he'd still get contact with the children which then she'd not be there to protect them.
She has to want to leave otherwise theres nothing you can do

I believe they have been yes. I also believe that she isn’t being truthful about the relationship she is continuing with him. He really should be no where around the kids. I can’t understand why she isn’t protecting them. I understand abuse but I thought and I maybe wrong that she’d want to do this. Or at least get something safer put in place. If it went to court he would not get contact unsupervised given what he’s done to her physically.

She leaves them with him anyway on his own. What he did to my friend was bad, really bad. I’m not sure he would.

I would distance yourself.

I’ve been through this with my mum. After years of supporting her, she still played happy families in between the violence/abuse/drama. She had left twice and gone back. She was no closer to leaving for good and I was completely drained and sad. When she went back the second time, I knew she’d never leave and that part of her was as bad as he was and that she wanted to be with him, despite everything he had done to her and me.

One day my partner just said that no one would blame me for walking away and putting myself and my own family first and that it would probably be better if I did. I think before he said that, I’d always felt I had to be there but I realised I didn’t actually have to be, she was a grown adult and I wasn’t responsible for her. I cut her off completely and life got a lot better. My life is really calm and stable and after cutting her off, I realised how bad it was making me feel and the impact that had on my relationship and children. I only wish I’d have cut her off sooner.

Its not easy, but you need to take care of yourself and put yourself first.

I feel she has lost all sense of what’s normal and what’s right. She isn’t protecting her children, she isn’t concerned about him and them. He is a terrible father.

Given everything you've said, I would distance myself massively. Ultimately, there's nothing at all you can do and you shouldnt underestimate the impact it has on you.

They have gone away on holiday and she is posting photos and I don’t know how to respond. Others are hearting and liking the photos and I have no idea. It’s got to me lately. She told me she’s had many good friends that she has lost and she’s just used to it. I feel I will probably be another sadly. I can’t stand by and like and heart, I can’t keep hearing about it and she’s at breaking point and then back on the merry go round. If she has lost a child over this, which I’m 90% sure she has then nothing will change it. She has joked that it’ll kill her, it’s not even funny.

All of the comparisons you keep making between how you acted and she's hasn't yet make you sound incredibly judgemental.

She'll have to find the strength herself and noone can do it for her, but your attitude doesn't help her.

You say you understand abuse, but can't understand 'it', as in her response. Sadly, though frustrating, this is completely understandable and she needs friends who genuinely support her, rather than patronising, blaming or criticising her.

She is a victim but she is also, objectively, failing to protect her kids and thus harming them. It's okay to not want to be friends with her anymore. I wouldn't either.

But she has had many good friends over the 2 decades. Even loosing access to her previous child wasn’t enough and she went on to have kids with the man that at that time was beating her and she was having contact and that child had to see her face. I feel she is trying to make me normalise it, because of my past I can’t. Honestly I’ve had so many talks. But now I’m back sat here and she’s sending pics of her holiday with him and kids and I haven’t said anything. I can’t give her likes, if I tell her why she will most definitely get shitty with me.