Perspective needed - postpartum and MIL cancer diagnosis

[JustLetMeHave]

My DH comes from a dysfunctional family. Recovering alcoholic DF and emotionally enmeshed with his controlling DM who used him as an emotional crutch as a young teen. As a result he struggles with being vulnerable emotionally or even talking about anything on a deeper level. We've struggled with this on and off in our relationship but in the last 5 years I had thought we were doing pretty well.

MIL and I do have a bit of history, she has made completely unreasonable parenting demands of me in the past. I have since grown a spine but even now I get the odd PA comment, and there is a constant sense of being judged in her company. I try to grin and bear it to get it over and done with.

We've been married nearly 10 years and have 3 kids, 6, 2 and 6 months.
His DM got a diagnosis of an aggressive cancer when I was nearly due with our 3rd baby. It, rather understandably took over the entire birth and postpartum period.

I feel like I went above and beyond trying to support him emotionally, while vulnerable post partum myself. I took the DC round there on her good days to let her have contact with them, hosted her here for the day when she has been well enough. Every other Sunday we get together at one of her sons houses as a wider family to make memories - I have hosted myself several times despite breastfeeding a tiny baby. I've facilitated DH spending extra time with her even though it has meant wrangling the kids by myself, or looking after poorly DC while he goes to one of his family meals.

Our 10 Year anniversary is coming up and I was doing some introspection on where we were as a couple. I asked him if we could have a chat once the kids were in bed and this is where it went to shit. He immediately went on the defensive and asked what it was about. I told him it was about our relationship and where we are, smoothing out some wrinkles and working together. He demanded to know there and then what specific incidents I was talking about and what I wanted doing about them, basically having the conversation and shutting it down right there and then.

I didn't think it would provoke such a strong reaction in him and went off, upset. I sent him a message later that day as it seems to be the only way of not being interrupted and derailed. Its been a week now, and there's been nothing from him. No response, no emotion, no conversation beyond the mundane. It seems that we haven't got a few wrinkles to sort out but a giant fucking pothole that I didn't even realise existed.

I feel a bit heartbroken that he hasn't cared enough to bother even responding, but also like I can't trust myself right now as I'm so sleep deprived doing all the night feeds by myself and my hormones seem to be trying to revert back to normal. I now feel like I've been taken advantage of at a vulnerable time in my life, I've struggled with my feelings towards MIL for years, but that the cancer diagnosis becomes a free hit for everything and takes priority over everything.

Where do I go from here? Do I recognise he is going through a really tough time and just brush it under the carpet, or do I also count as being worthy of some reciprocal emotional labour on his end? Am I just being hormonal as my body tries to return to periods, and making a mountain out of a molehill? And how do I protect myself emotionally?

It just hurts so much. If I had the same outlook on emotional support as he does, he'd be processing his mums diagnosis alone.

There's a lot going on here, isn't there?

If you find messaging him works better, could you message him to ask for a conversation? Almost provide an agenda so that he knows what will be coming up?

Or write him a letter outlining what youve said here/done to support him and saying you're happy to be doing that because its what couples do to support each other but also using I statements to explain yourself. Eg when X happens, I feel... this will give him the opportunity to read and process it without feeling 'attacked' when he is already feeling vulnerable and emotional but also gives you the opportunity to express yourself clearly and not feel forced into having a conversation immediately when you're not prepared either. His response is intended to shut it down because its a conversation he doesn't want to have. He's doing it to protect himself from a difficult conversation.

You'll obviously get a slew of responses calling him names and telling you to LTB but I think you'd rather feel like you've tried to resolve it rather than just issuing ultimatums and stropping off!

Thanks,
Yes that's what I was planning on doing next. Its so hard to be calm and rational when you just want to lash out and tear it all down!

I just don't know what is reasonable to ask for and where the line gets crossed from supportive spouse to absolute doormat. My feelings towards MIL are muddying the waters somewhat, and at the moment it feels like DH is having an affair with her.

I love him to bits but there's just too much going on for me to see it all objectively!

I agree with this but would also add that he might just genuinely not be capable of having these big conversations right now. When I went through similar with my own mum I know I just couldn’t see past it, I know my husband had to pick up the slack and I’m incredibly grateful he did but in those moments there is no way I could have had the head space to engage in anything beyond it.

A letter no matter how carefully worded could well be see as an attack on both he s d his mother so he will not react well. Write it by all means but bear that in mind.

Is he willing to at all accept there is a problem here re familial enmeshment? Your Dh needs therapy re his mother’s emotional enmeshment of him. He can break this enmeshment but it will take a lot of work on his part As a result of this mother/son enmeshment he has no real sense of boundaries re her and is very much a people pleaser. People pleasing often comes about of wanting to parent please an emotionally absent parent. The odds were stacked against him in childhood to start with and his mother has indeed used him as her emotional crutch/surrogate supported now given her h is an alcoholic. Your h has had his identity subsumed by her and has been left feeling deeply obligated to her as a result.

You and the kids should certainly stay away from
het as she is not an emotionally safe enough person to be around. You likely have come from an emotionally healthy family so all this was unknown to you. Her diagnosis did not change that fundamental truth either. She has always been a toxic person to her son and now your own family unit.

You would not tolerate this from a friend so do not keep on grinning and bearing it. She would have behaved exactly the same regardless of whom he married and he chose you because he also saw you as being non threatening to his mother.

Thanks for your perspective. How would you suggest I protect myself emotionally without withdrawing completely? Am I unreasonable to say no more hosting until baby is night weaned and I've caught up on my sleep?
We hosted on Saturday, and even though they're very grateful, there's no assistance, other than bringing out some dirty dishes to the kitchen.
I cooked everything from scratch, then I fed baby her tea as it was getting late, then I took her upstairs to breastfeed her and try to settle her down to sleep, which didn't work. By the time I came back downstairs for my tea, it was cold and they'd all finished dessert. Then I cleared up by myself and cleaned the table and kitchen and then got both the toddler and the baby to bed by myself as it had gotten really late. They left while I was settling the toddler, and I eventually sat down at 11.30pm. Then I was up half of the night with baby, feeding every 3 hours.

Do I just drop the MIL rope, and what does that even look like?

Eta this was to @Jellybunny98

I agree with this too.

Yes. I would stop the hosting.

In your shoes, I think my starting point would be don't make it difficult for him to support his mum but don't get involved in it directly.

So don't be the one to take the childen round and don't host. That will still mean you caring for the children alone when he isn't there but you won't be exacerbating your own problems by giving yourself extra work to do.

Don't attend all the get together at other people's houses. Use the time to sleep. He can take the children.

That would be 'dropping the rope'.

At the moment, you're not even running on fumes and your health (physical and mental) is just as important as his mum's.

I would put boundaries in for yourself like the ones you’ve written and with a longer term view of lowering all such visits. Indeed stop hosting her as of now.

Do not give yourself extra work to do. You’ve basically been tolerated by her and her dislike for you is apparent even though you have gone out of your way to help her. She sees your kindness really as weakness to be exploited. Your efforts are expected by them and not appreciated.

Read up also about mother son enmeshment.

It must be really difficult to put yourself out for someone that has never been kind to you.

Why isn't your DH doing at least half of the cooking and clearing up afterwards? You are doing everything while caring for a breast fed baby. He may be upset about his mum's diagnosis, but he is being totally unreasonable to expect you to carry the load of hosting his family on your own.

If he gets upset about you refusing to host any more, tell him that he can still invite them if he does all the work to make this happen.

Thanks @GreyCarpet

He has had therapy, though I don't know how much he would admit he is enmeshed with her, and it's hardly the right time to bring it up.

He did make big improvements on his emotional vulnerability at one point, but unfortunately the therapist who knew him and his family dynamic has sadly passed away.

I did set healthy boundaries after she went completely controlling over DS1 when he was a toddler. I need to stop giving her a free pass due to the diagnosis and back off again.

@thepariscrimefiles the difficult part is she IS nice but it comes at a price. She gives generous "gifts" such as an expensive iron, an instant pot or a roomba which are genuinely useful, and what she herself would appreciate as a gift, but there's always an undertone of judging my parenting (and its alway MY parenting) or PA comments to that effect.
DH gets the same type of gifts. Functional things, but the difference is he appreciates them. I don't think there is any malice in her. She is just controlling and doesn't understand that I am my own person.

In terms of DH, he cleaned the house beforehand and did the drinks when they were here. I don't mind cooking by myself as I do enjoy it but I do resent clearing up the aftermath.

I think you're between a rock and a hard place and whatever you do will be seen as wrong. On the one hand, I am livid your husband doesn't support you more; on the other, I know how hard it is to support a sick parent / be a carer. If this were temporary, and he normally supports you and parents equally etc., then I would bite my tongue and do my best to keep supporting him; but it sounds like there are always issues?

Whether it's fair or not, I think many people would find it hard to forgive a spouse who said their seriously ill/dying mother was no longer welcome for dinner once a fortnight. This doesn't mean that you need to be doing everything. Accept that, although you may enjoy cooking, this may not be the right evening for it. Just get a takeaway or ready meals or make something simple; take your food with you if you have to leave to feed the baby; ask your DH and the other adults (not MIL) to clear up. I don't think this has to be such a black and white situation - you don't have to be Julia Childs and your husband doesn't have to revert to child-like laziness. You just have to work out what is feasible, together.

She’s full of malice actually and has never been kind to either her now enmeshed with her son nor to you as his wife. Get it out of your head thather behaviour is nice because it’s not and indeed it’s passive aggressive. She has no idea what you like and indeed buys you stuff that she likes rather than a thoughtful gift for you.

Controlling behaviour is abusive behaviour at heart. She also does not understand nor ever will that her son is his own person too, she had never allowed him to have his own identity by enmeshing him as she has done. She has done great harm to your own family unit and will continue to do so if she has access to your kids, ds1 in particular has been marked out here by her as the golden child with the other siblings being far less noticed or even ignored. She having a cancer diagnosis does not change the truth that she is a toxic person who will and indeed has harmed your family unit emotionally.

Okay, so there are a few things going on here. Firstly, the cancer diagnosis, my mum was diagnosed with cancer when my 2nd baby was a few weeks old. Yes, it’s hard and upsetting and a shock. But you both are healthy and well. Of course, spend time with MIL (he can take the kids with him to see her and give you a free afternoon, he can host the family and do all the prep and cooking himself, etc). But life doesn’t stop because someone you know has cancer.

I myself have advanced cancer now. (My mum is in remission and fine, btw. She may actually outlive me!). When you are yourself sick with cancer and all the other chronic illnesses it causes along the way, parenting is hard. My Dh absolutely has to step in regularly to take over because I’m not well enough to do things. That’s different. But having a parent with cancer, especially when there are siblings who can share the caring, should not completely take over family life. He should be able to be an engaged parent still.

That said, I can see how during this stressful time, being cornered and basically told you aren’t doing a good enough job would be really upsetting. No, having an ill parent isn’t a get out of parenting free card. BUT you do have to approach it the right way. I think now probably isn’t the right time to have a talk about the state of your relationship. Yes, say what you need. Yes, tell him you need more support if family life is getting sidelined too much. But I can see how dropping that bomb might have just tipped him over the edge right now.

You said the MIL cancer is aggressive. What is her prognosis? If she literally has months then it might not be a fight worth having. From how you are describing his reaction it sounds to me like he is overwhelmed and kind of just blanking out what you are saying rather than intentionally trying to be an arsehole.
If he thinks he really might only have a short time left with her then I think you should continue the get togethers. Just say to him that you would rather get takeaway on these visits and he has to clear up. Just make it direct practical stuff rather than a big emotional assessment of your relationship at this time.
I think the approach of you trying to schedule a chat and you internally reviewing your relationship after 10 years together has sounded quite serious and intense and it’s possible he just can’t cope with anything else while his mum is dying.
If you love him and the relationship is basically sound I wouldn’t make such an already emotionally charged situation a battleground between the two of you.
I think rather than focusing on protecting yourself emotionally at this time I would focus on protecting yourself practically. Don’t cook from scratch, tell him he has to clear up. Say goodnight and go up with the baby at 10pm.

He's normally alright, and like I said over the last 5 years has come a long way. The issue was I don't think he understands how vulnerable you are during the postpartum period, and I'd felt pressured to have one of his work colleagues and his wife to stay (mild acquaintances) when DD3 was just 5 weeks old. I ended up with mastitis because it was just far too much. I just wanted to get it off my chest now that I could see it from a distance and could be more objective but that's when he just shut down.

If I stopped hosting, it would increase the load on my other 2 SILS, one of whom is heavily pregnant herself.

MIL is stage 4, and going through chemo after having whipple surgery. She's just had her scan to see if chemo is working and is waiting on the results. Looking back, it was obviously completely the wrong time to bring it up, but I just wanted it behind us so we could enjoy our anniversary without any niggles!

Thanks @Lotus717 . MIL doesn't want to know the prognosis so deliberately hasn't asked. That sounds like a sensible approach. I do love him and want to support him, I just need to make sure I'm not martyring myself in the process as I make a very resentful one!

I wrote out all my grievances in a message to myself last night. It feels good to get it out, even if he's not going to see it.

I'm autistic so find it hard to deal with normal social interactions and expectations, nevermind all the dysfunctional crap his parents bring!!

Your man has a long, long way to go.
He needs therapy re his enmeshment to his mother. Is he willing to admit his mother is a problem here?. Would he be open to having therapy?.

Why did you feel you could not say no to his work colleague and his wife when your daughter was just five weeks old?. It sounds like you were put upon by your h/his mother to do that . Please never martyr yourself like this again. It is ok to say no.

Broadly agree with this. If he wants to host then he can cook or sort pizza or a takeaway. And at least share the cleaning up. And yes, he takes the kids to the other meet ups.
Don't get derailed by worrying about your other SIL. All of you need to put yourselves first but you can only do it on your own behalf, and maybe set an example with that.

Our 10 Year anniversary is coming up and I was doing some introspection on where we were as a couple. I asked him if we could have a chat once the kids were in bed and this is where it went to shit. He immediately went on the defensive and asked what it was about. I told him it was about our relationship and where we are, smoothing out some wrinkles and working together.

If my mum was ill and my Dh said he wanted to have this type of conversation i don't think I'd have reacted well either. It would feel like one more negative emotional demand on me and I wouldn't have the head space for it.

I don't think it's the best time to try and tackle anything about your DH's relationship with his mum or her personality. That's just muddying the waters. If I was you then I'd focus on what I need from him at the moment that he is reasonably able to give that is going to help you in your sleep deprived state.

Can he do more to help with the kids to let you rest?

You can tell him that you are happy to host but he needs to do more to help, and be specific ie that he needs to clear things up or whatever other kind of help you feel you need. Don't cook everything from scratch either, look for short cuts to make things easy on yourself. Get a takeaway in for a change.

I don't think he is in the right frame of mind for therapy right now. He has had it in the past and made improvements, but he does still have a long way to go, and as his old therapist has died, I can't see him opening himself up to somebody new any time soon.

With the work colleague thing it was a lack of communication. We've had them to stay a couple of times, and the husband was going on from here, up to Scotland with DH to visit some customers. Every other time DH has been to Scotland it has been an overnighter as its hours away. Colleagues wife is always desperate for a chance to get away and wants to come along with him so I told DH that yes she can come this time as I'll need help getting my kids to bed with him away.
Anyway, DH and colleague arrived back home at 7pm that evening much to my surprise, so I'd had the wife to stay for no reason at all. Baby and toddler were all out of routine thanks to having guests in and I ended up with mastitis.

Just wanted to send my thoughts as know exactly what the cancer is if she had a wipple as my dad had it too. Its a hopeful prognosis as they only do that if there is a chance it will work most dont get offered it but chances are against her.

You are stuck and until the Dr's say if her chemo is reducing the size or not, but if its got to stage 4 its not good.

Ideally your DH should be trying to ease the pressure on you but I can tell he is being torn between you both. I really hope things improve soon.

I wouldnt ban hosting but I'd let him do the heavy lifting or just put a few pizzas on.

I'd also disengage and step back from his stuff and focus a bit more on "your stuff". You have limited energy... use it wisely.dont just pour it into others.

On the cancer...def get more info we had 2 relatives in similar boats with "aggressive" cancer..one died within a year the other was with us for almost 5 years...

@Pericombobulations thank you. Yes she had the surgery within 2 weeks of the initial GP visit, when it was stage 3, but it had already started spreading between the surgery and starting chemo.

He does feel torn, and it's just shit for everyone.