To say something or continue to stew over this?

[Zeemie22]

I am sitting here thinking about what my husband said to me on the phone yesterday. We don't talk much - pretty much separated at this point and I stonewall him as much as I can because interacting with him triggers me sooner or later. There has been a lot of abuse in the past - all kinds. I needed some advice and had asked him a couple of days ago if he could help and he said that he will look into it. Yesterday as I stepped outside the house I suddenly remembered a key detail that I had forgot and decided to call him to discuss, I haven't called or texted him since 4 months and we barely see each other in the house, we have separate rooms. While on call, I was trying to explain something and wanted to reference his friend as an example, I am terrible with names and memory in general and said, "you know the friend that you have whose wife worked through her pregnancy, you know the one with a restaurant... you know the couple who live in Kent?". He cut me off and said, "get to the point, it doesn't matter what their names are". That really triggered me. I tried to be as calm as possible because my therapist says do not engage and do not entertain any flying monkeys. I said, "it helps to reference properly because I don't want to give an incorrect example so I think names would have helped with clarity". Anyway I ended the call after discussing the main issue but since yesterday I have been seething. Something inside me is making me quite angry with myself for allowing this once again. It reminds me of all the times he has tried to sort of gain the upper hand in any conversation and he does that by being dismissive, rude and very short tempered - not just with me but with others also that he thinks deserve that treatment and are below him in whatever hierarchy he has in his mind.

I don't see my therapist until Wednesday. Today is Sunday and usually I do not have the bandwidth to get into a confrontation with him because it messes up my entire day. As I type this my hands shake and my heartbeat's quite fast just at the thought of knocking on his door and bringing yesterday's comment up. But I also know if I don't say anything I'll hate myself for betraying myself and once again, not standing up and letting him get away with talking to me like that again.

My therapist has told me not to engage with him in a confrontation. I never win. It gets ugly. He seems to get off on the chaos that follows because he is looking for a reaction or some sort of 'interaction' that can allow him a window into my current state of mind and let him manipulate me accordingly. What follows from his side in any argument is a pattern of DARVO, confusion and chaos by him to not accept accountability: That looks like policing my tone, my choice of words, talking about any and everything minor that is brought up in the conversation that is not related to the actual issue I try to discuss. Basically anything but a resolution. It can escalate to swearing sometimes also when he thinks he is losing the argument.

I know I need to leave this situation, and I will. I need to survive this until I do.

Tbf I can't stand it when someone waffles on before getting to the point. It doesn't matter if I like them or not. Just spit it out ffs.

Why are you so entrenched in therapy? Just seperate, divorce and go your seperate ways.

Are you sure you understood what your therapist meant when she said “flying monkeys”?

Was there really any need?

Can I ask a question - when we allow people to use contempt, disrespect or abusive behaviour towards us - and not as a one off but someone who repeatedly does that and each iteration fuels the next one because they know by experience that they will not be called out nor challenged, how do you live with knowing that you decided to treat them like a 'wall' and got busy trying to find your way around it?

@Zeemie22

I have experience with this as my ex is a contemptuous jerk and many interactions I have with him involve some kind of sneering or defensiveness or other unpleasantness on his part.

I don’t want to state the obvious but when you’re dealing with someone who is routinely horrible to you, the only way to not “allow” them to be horrible to you is to cut off their access to you. Just get them out of your life, as fast and completely as possible. Avoid interacting with them as much as you can, ideally not at all. Use email or text instead of conversations. Go through lawyers if necessary. The poor treatment will not stop until they are out of your life.

The thing to understand is that you’re not “allowing” him to be contemptuous or rude or whatever towards you, because you are not in control of his behaviour. He is allowing himself to be rude and contemptuous to you when he interacts with you. The only things you are in control of are a) allowing his access to interactions with you and b) the way you allow yourself to behave toward him.

I know it’s usually not as easy as just cutting the person off immediately, but that should be your goal that you’re working towards, and until you can get there, you have to just sort of learn to brush their shitty behaviour off or ignore it because that’s what limits the length of your interactions with them. Unfortunately I have kids and am still going through financial settlement with my ex so I still have to interact with him sometimes but I do that by email as much as possible, and as rarely as possible.

I live with knowing he’s going to be a dick no matter what I say or do because I’ve really integrated the understanding that it’s not about me and I’m not in any way in control of his behaviour, whether I try to “call it out” or challenge it (this only results in more drama) or just ignore it and rise above (another good way to get past brick walls).

I know this is very frustrating advice because initially you feel like you’re abandoning yourself. I remember being so annoyed early on when I was learning about toxic people when I read things like “just lower your standards for interactions with them”. Like, why should I expect less of this person?! It was because I was still struggling with the idea that I had or could have some control over him. I’ve accepted now that I have zero control over him and the way he acts, I only have control over myself, and I actually can choose to detach emotionally and even laugh at how predictably dickheaded my ex can be.

This is a hard thing to do and even my boyfriend gets far more wound up than I do whenever my ex comes up with some fresh way to disrespect me. Don’t get me wrong, I am not totally zen and I do feel annoyed by him, but I no longer feel hurt or disrespected because he is not a person whose “respect” I need or value anymore.

Thank you for sharing your perspective and experience, I appreciate the thought and your time. You're right about me not being in control of his behaviour no matter what I do and up until now trying to not abandon myself (because that's exactly how it feels when I don't react or stand up for myself or at the very least let him know that wasn't okay with me) has only resulted in an escalation.

Your ex sounds quite exhausting and email sounds like the safest way to communicate, I am sorry you have to deal with him and need to stay in touch. I hope that you wouldn't have to do that for very long and that you can put this all behind you x

It might help to remember that the reaction is either consciously or subconsciously what your ex wants, so you’re actually giving him what he wants if you react and that encourages him.

He wants you to be upset, he wants you to be annoyed to feel put-down. He wants that sense of control over your emotions. And while internally you might feel all those things, it’s better to starve him of a response. Initially this might not seem to work, because like a toddler he will just act out more to try to provoke a response, but over time it does dry up a bit. And in a “fake-it-till-you-make-it’s” way, pretending you don’t care what he says or does actually eventually evolves into genuinely not caring.

What an exhausting read.

He was right, not sure why you have such an OTT reaction to his slightly frustrated comment

I'll share the why and this just happened. He's just gone through my laundry that's up for drying and found out that I wore a one piece swimming costume to the gym today. He tried to tell me I can't wear it and I have tried my best to hold on to some sense of control over my own life because I suffocate if I'm covered too much when I am supposed to be sweating. I like my aqua classes/sauna at the gym and there will be men swimming in the pool which I don't care about as I'm there to do my own thing. Maybe it's a me thing but I feel like someone's cut off my air supply if I am told what to wear etc etc. He used to have a problem with me wearing leggings when going out for a jog and tried his best to insist I wear a light jacket on top. Never happened, all he ended up doing was excluding himself from my runs. I just hope he doesn't turn up at my gym and cause a scene because I won't be covering myself anymore than I do. Ugh I hate all of this so much.

So, all of this is you justifying yourself. You don’t have to do that. You shouldn’t have had to when you were together, but you 100% don’t have to now that you’re not. Tell him to fuck off of just ignore him, the choice is yours, but your reasons for wearing what you want are irrelevant. You can just wear it.

This really begs the question of why you feel you need to justify yourself, though?

Also, this is crazy. I just hope he doesn't turn up at my gym and cause a scene because I won't be covering myself anymore than I do.

If this man follows you to the gym and ‘causes a scene’, call security and/or the police. That’s madness. I cannot overstate how weird and unacceptable that behaviour would be. The casualness with which you’ve stated it is really worrying me!

When can you fully separate? What’s the situation?

Lucky you that you’ve never reached the end of your tether after years of being put down, shut down and controlled in a relationship.

The OP needs help seeing her way clear out of an abusive relationship, not more put-downs. She’s over-reacting (which she already knows) because her nervous system is shot to shit.

OP sometimes I try to pretend to be an anthropologist when I need to interact with my (separated from) husband. For example I observe that during this interaction he started with the standard greeting for his “group” which is the passive aggressive comment. Then he will state opinions on things that are absolutely none of his business and I step back inside my mind and not engage. It also helps me to determine “what is he trying to communicate here”? So I can respond in a direct manner and not be sucked in.

Our relationship is to the point that I think he is habitually critical and negative. I think it is a pattern so ingrained that he is not aware of it. I think that he is genuinely surprised that I don’t see the benefit of him pointing out what I do wrong because he is so self important that surely I am desperate to increase my standing in his eyes.

Also OP I do need to practice what I preach more but consider looking into “the circle of control”.

The universal question is OP is why are you both still living in this house together? What's the timeline to getting away from him?

Op please look into EMDR. But more importantly you need to remove yourself from this man. What is it you need to do that?
never mind his actions. You are only in control of your actions. What can you do to get away? How do you feel about that? Please get help to leave. The gym story is very concerning. You are not safe with this ‘man’. Your reactions are strong because you know deep down that he’s unsafe

OP don’t ‘confront’ him. It’s pointless. Put your focus on getting away from him ASAP. The way to avoid this situation is to not ask him for advice. Ever again. Find someone else or manage without the advice.
Re the clothing: ’What I wear is none of your concern’. On repeat. Don’t explain, don’t justify, none of his concern.
What needs to happen to just get out?

Last week I had a very similar conversation with my partner. He was doing the same thing because he couldn't remember a persons name. He was saying 'you know him that came to the Christmas do last year and snogged that woman'. I knew exactly who he was on about and said the same thing your husband said to you.
I think you are overreacting.

I am trying to save some money, finish my degree which I am months away from and then would be in a position to move out. Trying my best to lay low until then, I won't go to him again for advice or any other ask.

We're just not suited for each other or even for a relationship maybe also although once we're out of this marriage I'm sure we'd be good friends because we both know each other so well. We're both hyper independent and he tries so hard to control me somehow - the only difference is I don't do the same back to him. Last night he told me that he has 'allowed' me to go to the gym, that he 'lets' me go out and do whatever - the whatever includes Saturdays when I take the tube to go to central London for a day out on my own, attend dance dance classes, go to the gym etc and he said that he has been very lenient with me. I just laughed, it's not because he was suddenly overcome with kindness. It's because I didn't let him have his way. It's all a power trip for him. He said yesterday that I am 'disobedient' and 'rebellious'. I really need to disengage for my own good and greyrock.

I really need to disengage for my own good and greyrock - yes, you do. Personally I wouldn’t want to be friends going forwards with someone who thinks they have the right to control another adults actions.

Look up grey rock and JADE.

Do not do anything for him. Stop engaging.

Apply for a divorce online.

It's hard going through the process. Look at what you need to do now to get out then process everything afterwards.

You're using your energy in the wrong places. You're strong and capable.

All I can say reading this is you are wasting your precious life every single minute you stay in a house with this man - and if you have ANY way to get out now you should focus all your energy on that.

I think that all sounds extremely sinister and coercive......which is a crime.

Why would you want to remain in any contact with an abusive man.

Focus on your course and get away from him.

Keep notes. Coercive control is a crime.

Thank you so much, I am reading up on JADE right now and this is so helpful. Bless you x