To say something or continue to stew over this?

[Zeemie22]

I am sitting here thinking about what my husband said to me on the phone yesterday. We don't talk much - pretty much separated at this point and I stonewall him as much as I can because interacting with him triggers me sooner or later. There has been a lot of abuse in the past - all kinds. I needed some advice and had asked him a couple of days ago if he could help and he said that he will look into it. Yesterday as I stepped outside the house I suddenly remembered a key detail that I had forgot and decided to call him to discuss, I haven't called or texted him since 4 months and we barely see each other in the house, we have separate rooms. While on call, I was trying to explain something and wanted to reference his friend as an example, I am terrible with names and memory in general and said, "you know the friend that you have whose wife worked through her pregnancy, you know the one with a restaurant... you know the couple who live in Kent?". He cut me off and said, "get to the point, it doesn't matter what their names are". That really triggered me. I tried to be as calm as possible because my therapist says do not engage and do not entertain any flying monkeys. I said, "it helps to reference properly because I don't want to give an incorrect example so I think names would have helped with clarity". Anyway I ended the call after discussing the main issue but since yesterday I have been seething. Something inside me is making me quite angry with myself for allowing this once again. It reminds me of all the times he has tried to sort of gain the upper hand in any conversation and he does that by being dismissive, rude and very short tempered - not just with me but with others also that he thinks deserve that treatment and are below him in whatever hierarchy he has in his mind.

I don't see my therapist until Wednesday. Today is Sunday and usually I do not have the bandwidth to get into a confrontation with him because it messes up my entire day. As I type this my hands shake and my heartbeat's quite fast just at the thought of knocking on his door and bringing yesterday's comment up. But I also know if I don't say anything I'll hate myself for betraying myself and once again, not standing up and letting him get away with talking to me like that again.

My therapist has told me not to engage with him in a confrontation. I never win. It gets ugly. He seems to get off on the chaos that follows because he is looking for a reaction or some sort of 'interaction' that can allow him a window into my current state of mind and let him manipulate me accordingly. What follows from his side in any argument is a pattern of DARVO, confusion and chaos by him to not accept accountability: That looks like policing my tone, my choice of words, talking about any and everything minor that is brought up in the conversation that is not related to the actual issue I try to discuss. Basically anything but a resolution. It can escalate to swearing sometimes also when he thinks he is losing the argument.

I know I need to leave this situation, and I will. I need to survive this until I do.

In your situation I would find someone else to go to for advice. If this couple had asked you to ask your H, couldn't you have given them his number and let them contact him directly?

Don’t stew…divorce

If you are triggered by something so minor, then you need to leave immediately. Why haven't you already if you're not financially dependant?

I would also and indeed have in the past after an ex boyfriend called me to tell me "bad news" and launched into a story with multiple deviations. 30 minutes later I was none the wiser and when he got to the point of "and I took my son to this nice restaurant. It's run by a Japanese couple and there is no menu..." so I told him to cut to the chase. Turned out his ex wife was just diagnosed with cancer and he couldn't understand why I thought information about him paying for baby swimming classes 20 years ago the story about Japanese restaurant wasn't relevant to this piece of news.

You're upset over his response to you.

Looking at it from outside, his response wasn't unreasonable. You've been no contact for months even though living in the same house. Then you contact him wanting advice. Then another contact where you were meandering on about another couple. Your communication was unclear and rambling and maybe he was busy. But I would tell you to get to the point too. You started the contacts and even though he agreed to help you, you're irritated with his response.

If you're disentangling yourself from this abusive ex, do not approach him for help.

No advice particularly. However I am currently separated from my DH who has treated me in an emotionally abusive way in the past. Any time we speak he is dismissive, condescending and arrogant, but nothing overt. My whole body has this visceral reaction of anxiety and this weird spiralling emotion. It is awful and I can’t describe it. It would appear to anyone observing us that I am completely unhinged. A minor interaction can leave me unsettled for days. I just wanted to say I get it. I don’t understand it or why it happens but I can really identify with your post.

Your rambling would have annoyed me and I would have said similar to your husband !

that said if you generally don’t like each other and getting divorced don’t call him for advice

Honestly if he's as abusive as you say, why on earth would you go to him for advice about anything? Surely you could have accessed advice somewhere else - a friend, Citizen's Advice?

It sounds like your therapist as absolutely right telling you not to engage with him. There really is no point if all it does is trigger you. He probably would enjoy getting a reaction out of you.

I presume you're still living together until the property is sold and you can go your separate ways? Just stay out of his way as much as possible and avoid any conversation with him. And start spending your time thinking about your life and what you want to do when you are finally free of him, rather than pointlessly ruminating over a conversation that sounds mildly irritating at worst.

I don’t know why you needed to ask him to be honest. is he the only one that could have advised and why would you think he’s advice would be of any value?

He made a comment and to be honest you should ignore it and should have avoided engaging with him.

I think the wider issue was he triggered you ant that’s not surprising. His response must have brought up all the past bad feelings and times he made you feel small.

Do you have children? Is there a quicker way to get divorced? You need to rid yourself of him and the therapy will be more effective if he’s not living with you.

@Zeemie22 he is not your friend. He is not on your side. Therefore, do not ask advice from him again. AI is a much better option than asking him.

Why waste your breath on him? Just shout “fuck off” into the void and leave it.

Spend the therapy session working out how to actually separate from him, because that’s the bit you seem to be having trouble with.

Stop going to him for anything.
I understand therapy can be really helpful but the taking of notes to therapy, while may be prompt, can become all the horrible things he’s said/done and how you feel about them.
A therapist should be talking to you about your choices not telling you which course of action to choose.
What you really need from therapy, and yourself, is to leave this awful marriage behind and rebuild your life.
I only learned by therapy that going with the ‘terrible things that have happened’ every week with a list ended up a waste of everyone’s time.
What you really need to be working on is why you are still around him, why you have allowed yourself to feel so low, and what you need to do to get out of it.
May sound a bit tough but years of gentle therapy got me nowhere. Someone more challenging and a bit more drive from me really helped.

I'm confused. How are you managing to avoid one another when you live in the same house? Conversely, wouldn't it be easier to speak face-to-face rather than texting or phoning from one bedroom to another?

Whatever the answer to these questions, I agree you are overreacting. If you are triggered by something so small, wouldn't you be better off moving house, and taking advice from someone other than him?

He sounds awful and it won't end well.
How soon can you leave?
Are you working towards that?

Sounds like you hate one another but you still expect him to be civil, when he actually never was.

You no longer function as a couple in a relationship, abusive men are very rarely kind, add into that you have effectively cut off sex, intimacy and friendship and he's going to be even more unkind.

Ignor him, let your annoyance go, you have to learn that he's inconsiquencial and a nobody.

Stand on your own, you are clearly on a journey of becoming stronger, expect nothing from him, if stuff backfires on you both by not communicating then it's not your fault.

With people like this, you have to shift your perspective so you stop seeing their behaviour as something to do with you and compartmentalise it as being to do with them.

So instead of ruminating on how you feel dismissed and belittled, focus on thinking “His response is part of his pattern of dismissing and belittling and it doesn’t mean anything about me.”

It’s a reflection on him, not you. I mean, people at work ask me mildly annoying or inconveniently timed things all the time but I respond to them politely and patiently because I’m not a dickhead.

It’s pointless to bring up rude behaviour with someone who has a pattern of rude behaviour because they ain’t gonna get it. You’ll just end up being dismissed and belittled again. You have to learn to give yourself your own closure.

Their inability or refusal to get it is also why the professional advice is to simply disengage with/go no/low contact with high-conflict people. Trying to get apologies or understanding is a waste of breath and will likely only frustrate you and make them even more angry and spiteful towards you. Engaging just doesn’t work.

It’s not about not standing up for yourself, it’s about realising you could yell at a brick wall all you like about how it’s in your way, but the brick wall isn’t going to move. You just have to find a way to go around the brick wall.

Love that post Camilla!!

OP - take note!

"I was trying to explain something and wanted to reference his friend as an example, I am terrible with names and memory in general and said, "you know the friend that you have whose wife worked through her pregnancy, you know the one with a restaurant... you know the couple who live in Kent?"

@Zeemie22 said exactly WHY the information was important for him to have, so why would you jump on her and be so dismissive? We read her post and know why she put in those details- whether you think it's relevant is your opinion, but you need to realize that she knows it was relevant while you absolutely would not.

Please read all of a post before responding. It would've saved you from being unkind.

Thank you. This is exactly how I react to anything he does that reminds me of how I've been treated for so many years. I used to bawl my eyes out and cry myself hoarse because he wouldn't talk on the phone for more than 2 minutes when he was sitting with his family even if it was just watching TV. It reminded me of all the times he has ignored me in front of his mother and brothers to show them they always come first, would belittle and put me down to show them where my place was because that is what's encouraged as a culture in his family by his mother. I won't go into detail to justify my reaction. My body knows what that feels like and it's quite visceral, extreme and yes - unhinged.

You might benefit from EMDR if you have such a strong visceral reaction that you recognise logically is out of proportion to the actual interactions.

This is so helpful, thank you for taking the time to write this.

I've always felt like I am betraying myself yet again when I let his disrespect slide and let him get away with thinking he can use certain language and behaviour towards me and I feel awful for days and weeks for not 'addressing' it then and there.

Can I ask a question - when we allow people to use contempt, disrespect or abusive behaviour towards us - and not as a one off but someone who repeatedly does that and each iteration fuels the next one because they know by experience that they will not be called out nor challenged, how do you live with knowing that you decided to treat them like a 'wall' and got busy trying to find your way around it?

You sound rather unhinged. Sorry

Thank you for the suggestion, I will explore my options and look into this ❤️

Forgot to add - we had an LDR for 6 years and contact via phone was the only possibility for 90% of those 6 years.