Is this emotional infidelity, and should I consider ending the marriage?

[Calpurnia1]

DH of 20 years has met a woman at work who has become a very good friend over the last year or so. In a small group they occasionally went out for meals and drinking. There was lots of non work messaging late into the night and at weekends and I began to be concerned. Some of the messages were of the nudge-nudge-wink-wink type. It was painful and frankly heartbreaking to read them.
It really upset me and I asked if he could keep it to work where they spend time together anyway.
He has other woman friends and always has. Not a problem. But with this one…it’s different. They are clearly very close and share a lot of private jokes. It reminds me of we used to be when we first met. That easy friendship, knowing how we make each other laugh. Seeing something and wanting to tell them. Now he is like this with her.
Eventually after I let her know that I was aware, they did stop messaging but I worry it continues.
I don’t know what to do. When together, he spends most evenings with his phone in his hand, which makes me feel increasingly worried, in my own home, that it’s going on again.
It’s not physical between them but it’s so hurtful and their connection is slowly destroying how I feel about him and it makes me very sad.
I love him and our family and our home very much but it makes me feel lonelier each day.
Is it time I just face reality and leave or ask him to? I don’t know where to go with all this.

(((HUG)))

for the sake of your emotional well being, you need to be strong for yourself. I know this is a million times easier said than done 🤗 but you need to say to him that it doesn't matter what he thinks about your feelings, because they are your feelings not his. You've told him how his relationship with her is hurting you & your marriage & he has continued prioritising it over you & his marriage & you are now going to protect your emotional well being as he won't & you need him to leave.

it will either make him wake up to what he's putting at risk, or decide 'getting out' is just fine. Either way you will be able to stop living on a knife edge which us SO bad for your mental and physical well being.

🤗

I read posts like this & before I reply I usually put myself in the situation & consider how I would feel & how I would react.

My first thoughts are it has got absolutely nothing to do with the fact it's not physical & everything to do with respect. My DH has had work related lunches with female colleagues & I suppose you could also describe them as friends. I have no issue with this. The day I would accept the sending & receiving of texts unrelated to work or any form of flirtatious behaviour between them there would be a blue moon in the Sky. I seriously don't understand women who feel its acceptable to overstep the boundaries of marriage like this nor men who reciprocate. Its totally disrespectful to the wife who has to standby & watch whats going on in front of her eyes.The only way it's acceptable is if you have an open marriage where anything goes.

I would give him an ultimatum saying if you want to end our marriage your going the right way about it. I'd tell him I feel totally disrespected regardless of you saying it's all above board.

I hope it all works out for you both OP. He should pay more attention to your feelings & stop dismissing your understandable concerns.

I'm not messaging any men but if DH asked to see my phone I would refuse. He knows my pass code as he's used my phone before but to actually look through it to check what I'm up to would feel too much of an invasion of my privacy.

OP I feel for you. I went through something very similar, notably that this particular friendship is ‘different’, the constant contact and lying about it.
My DP got a shock when I told him I’d been looking for somewhere else to live, and he started to make a change.
We are still together and it’s been a hard road. If it happened again I’d be gone without hesitation.
Being disrespected was the worst.

That’s a completely different situation and not relevant here.

JLou08
Thankfully I would never have an issue with this simply because there is absolutely nothing in our lives we wouldn't share.

It is relevant, the message to the OP is thar if he doesn't provide access to his phone, he's lying, but no one could be sure of that.

You've spoken to both people and voiced your concern and hurt and they have carried on regardless. Your feelings towards this are totally valid and please don't let your husband tell you otherwise by downplaying it.

Am afraid you have few options left if he refuses to stop or go to marriage guidance. Either put up with it or get out of there. He will drive you slowly crazy if something doesn't change. Am so sorry this is happening to you.

Out of interest, is she married with children and how old is she?

They are both seriously over stepping the mark, which is of course an understatement.

I wonder how he would like you messaging another man late at night.

From one of OP’s posts:

I have done this and he said it had stopped but then I walked in and saw him messaging her a few days later when he thought I was out

He’s already lied and OP knows this.

That said, if it was me, the phone wouldn’t be necessary. I’d just ask him to leave.

I’m sorry op I don’t really have any advice but know exactly how you feel. I’ve been going through it the last few months as I’ve posted on here. I’ve been struggling with my mental health so much with it the last few weeks. He has maintained throughout that he has done nothing wrong they’re just “friends”. Has completely dismissed my feelings of being hurt and it all feels disrespectful. He has cut down on messaging and going out with her but told her he was too “busy” to go out rather than I didn’t want him to as he didn’t want to make it awkward and upset her. She messaged on Friday after he had finished for a weeks holiday to say “that he didn’t need to apologise earlier as she understands he is busy and has a lot on, and have a nice holiday”. He hasn’t mentioned that she messaged and he was obviously apologising to her for being to busy to go out but hasn’t apologised to me for all the hurt and thinks I’m overreacting and still seems resentful that I don’t want them having contact. Sometimes I wonder if I am overreacting about some messages but it was about his whole reaction to it. I know I need to leave as I can’t stop thinking about the messages and how he must feel about her but it’s hard after a long time. Sorry if that’s not a help but you’re not alone in going through it.

Thank you sharing this, it really sums up how I feel too. Particularly how is more concerned with sparing her feelings than mine.
I’ve almost started to feel that I’m in the way of the two of them, rather than the other way around which is madness!
Sending good wishes your way too.

It's damaging the trust between you because he's starting to message in secret. My ex was like this and I eventually realised I never knew what was in his head. It took a few years but we separated and I was far happier without the uncertainty. I deserved better and you do too

He wants his cake and eat it.

No excuses here. Id be out. Its crossing the line, its hurting you. You don't stumble upon this accidentally it grows over time when its nurtured. He stopped watering your garden and started watering hers. His choice.

Sorry to sound so harsh. But you need to see it for what it is so you can get angry and be strong and leave him

I honestly don’t think it matters whether he thinks your reaction is unreasonable or not. Everyone deserves to feel secure in their relationship, and you’re telling him this friendship is making you feel uncomfortable and unsettled. That should matter.

For me, the bigger issue isn’t even the friendship itself (if it is as innocent as he says), it’s that he’s not really acknowledging how it’s affecting you. That’s the part that would be most upsetting and was for me in that very same situation.

If it genuinely is just a friendship, then there should absolutely be a way for him to have that and for you to still feel secure and prioritised at the same time. In my scenario I was made to feel shit about myself for even questioning it. I was the one with a problem not them.

I’d trust your instincts in terms of how it’s making you feel, not necessarily that something is definitely going on, but that something about the situation isn’t sitting right for you, and that’s worth paying attention to.

Maybe a final conversation to firmly say that the way he has handled this whole situation, not the friendship itself, has made you question the relationship and you are seriously contemplating the future of your marriage and is only fair he understand how serious this has become for you. His reaction to that conversation will tell you everything you need to know.

In my situation my instincts were correct, I think for him he genuinely thought they were ‘besties’ she was actually convinced he was the love of her life 🙄

I have been there OP with a nice, kind, intelligent attractive husband. He was 41 and the other person was 21 year old student in my case . She did some work for our business. I had an inkling at the time due to the amount of texting I could see on his mobile bill - anyway she moved abroad - 10 years later I found a load of songs/poems he had written about her and his feelings. Pretty sure nothing physical but clearly there was an emotional attachment . Thing is we had a good relationship and I don’t think he had any intention to leave- what I think he liked and we had a huge chat about it after an enormous bust up was the banter/ the fact she really listened to him, the mild flirting , the ‘possibilities’ in unacknowledged attraction. Even nice guys I think are very suspectible when life gets a bit humdrum, same as some women too. If I had found out at the time I would I think have told him to bugger off . For me what was worse than the actual what they were doing was the fact he was remotely capable of it, annd making an idiot of me too , whilst I would have walked over hot coals to help him -I always thought I was 100% top dog in his mind, clearly I overestimated myself!!
we have stayed married as now in our 60s - we get on well, but he killed something inside that I just can’t hide -( to quote Carole king) so now he’s my 75%, not my 100% - strangely though I think I am now his 100%, but he blew it - killed my sex life too, once I found that pile of stuff, I just no longer felt the same sexually or romantically.

if I was in your shoes and knew the time it was going on I would ask him to have a serious chat - and yes I would ask to see his phone randomly too - if you get the ‘don’t you trust me’ then I would be honest and say’ not at this moment, no’ I would ask him if he thinks it’s ok to carry on a friendship to this degree that’s making you unhappy . Did he want to pursue something with her, did he want to split up - I would be very calm and factual but quite hard- because you need to know where you stand and he needs to know he’s putting his marriage at risk by doing this-

@Anon1234567891 I do know how you feel - when I found my Hs pile of mills and boon style slop years after it was happening. I felt very much like i was the one ‘in the way’ of him pursuing anything because god forbid i had asked him to do this and that with me and our son. I felt like an ‘option’ - one of his songs even said something about ‘when I escape from our house’ - it’s not a nice feeling at all, especially when you have been with someone a long time

Yes it's emotional infidelity.

Another woman seems to have got into his head and his heart and he has put his own feelings before yours. Complacency towards you and your marriage is what will kill it.

I had a similar situation. I also don't think anything physical but it was definitely an infatuation/crush and he would stop. Defended her. Was concerned about her feelings. I ended the marriage. Her husband ended hers. They are not together now and she is on her own. I am happily remarried.

I could never have got over that he was happy to treat me like that and put her first. There is no way back.

Yep as I said below if I had found out ‘at the time’ I would have ended our marriage . Finding out 10 years later put me in a funny position I felt - it was less raw and I was in a different position too, wouldn’t have got child maintenance and had a fair bit of debt and my job and home were dependent on our joint business, we also rented. If I had pots of cash I may have made a different decision in my 50s

I would hand mine over without a fuss, but be mightily pissed off that he'd asked, and one of us would be in.thd spare room for a good few days.

But neither of us are up to anything. In this case, the OP's husband probably is. If he isn't continually messaging the OW, he'll be able to take the ad hoc chance to prove it, and the OP will be in the doghouse but will know, too, that she was in the wrong on this point.

I doubt he would hand his phone over anyway, thus doing nothing to help the situation.

If the messages were flirtatious I think I'd have been a tad more explicit 🙇

You can't, though, OP. And it's unlikely that he would. Look after yourself and your children, because his focus is clearly elsewhere. Maybe try suggesting counselling.

Yes I totally get that. And I guess when you found out it was long over and you'd come out the other side. Had other more important stuff. Took a view.

I don't always think on here all the people saying LTB and divorce him realise what a huge thing it is to do. Cost me a fortune. I'm glad I did but had I been able to stay I would have.

How did you find out by the way?

You’re not overreacting. By not ending it you’re under reacting.

This is what cheaters do. Minimise their betrayal. Make it look like it’s your wrongdoing.

It’s all on them.

End it. He is taking the piss. Total disrespect

Op I'm sorry If I'm repeating advice but firstly I'm so sorry you're going through and secondly, hard as it is cut your losses now.
This is an emotional affair. I was a big advocate for reconciliation but 2 years after my dh did this to me (shortly followed by making it physical after I found out - he was a mess and needed comfort apparently...) he's decided he's given too much to me in the last two years at the cost of his neglecting his own happiness and boundaries and is off.
Seriously, just end it now and save yourself the heartache.