So lost - need help and reassurance

[concretemonolith]

Namechanged. In a bad place right now, and could very much use advice and thoughts.

Background - long marriage with DH. 3 teenage kids. Various ups and downs over the years, but a broadly happy and stable relationship.

Yesterday eldest kid home from uni opened a letter from HMRC (he has the same first initial as DH). He thought it was for him because he's just taking on part time employment. But it was for DH - a 'do not ignore this, we have tried to contact you several times' letter. A 5.5k debt that's been building for over a year, much of the amount due to late payment penalties and interest.

It's not the first time he's made such a mistake. A few years ago he ignored a credit card bill and again - the full amount mushroomed to a much larger amount. He promised me then that it wouldn't happen again, and that we would have full financial transparency going forward. For context - I came into the marriage with quite a large inheritance due to the sadly early death of my parents. This enabled us to buy a mortgage free house etc. The small amount of savings that remained have also helped him out over the years (eg for the credit card bill!), or when he left a job without another to go to.

Obviously I was shocked and angry. I called him at work, and he refused to discuss (tbf this would have been difficult). I messaged him with questions (not ranty or aggressive - more 'I can't believe this has happened again' etc). He didn't reply and then blocked me on text. We were due to go out to a school thing and I asked him to come home instead and get on the phone to HMRC to get to the bottom of this. At this point I was almost thinking it was an error, as he had filed a tax return in January.

I saw him briefly before I left - he was cold and uncommunicative. Just 'I am going to call them now.' By the time I got back (quite late), he'd gone to bed in the spare room.

This morning, when we were up, I tried to talk to him again. He briefly explained that yet again 'it's something I just ignored, I am an idiot, I am stupid'. I was trying to suggest ways we could manage to pay it off now and he said that he has set up a payment plan and will deal with it himself from his income.

He spoke to me aggressively - raising his voice etc. He's obviously furious with himself, but doing zero to apologise or attempt to explain himself. Younger DC heard. He left (slamming the door behind him).

Afraid to say I couldn't keep it together in front of DC or attempt to excuse what was going on. I was in floods of tears and told them what happened - and obviously eldest DC saw me in a state yesterday.

God, sorry this is so long. I need help with two things -

1. reassurance that it's not really awful the teenagers know that their dad has been a complete idiot and upset their mum?

2. how I should move forwards with him. The money is a worry - 5.5k is not a drop in the ocean. I could pull money from savings as I hate the thought of this debt getting bigger with interest (I am not even sure that's the case, but probably) or do I leave him to fix it? Obviously his income goes on household costs too, so it hits us either way.

But an even bigger worry is how he is behaving towards me. It feels immensely disrespectful. I know he is very angry with himself but this is unacceptable to me. I need advice on how long to give him to calm down and communicate like a bloody adult, and what I should do.

Thank you.

Is he angry with himself though or is he angry because he's been caught napping financially again?.

BTW what is his family background like?. Do you have any idea of what his parents attitude is to money?.

Was he angry with himself over his unpaid credit card bill?. I would stop bailing him out now re the HMRC and let him face the consequences of his actions and lack of head on without intervening.

There is a fine line between helping and enabling and he seems to have learnt nothing from last time when you ended up bailing him out. Enabling only gives you a false sense of control and does not help him either.

I would also consider on a wider level whether you want to remain married to him given his attitude towards both you and the DC. They probably wonder why you are still with him. And no it is not awful that your DC know that dad's been a complete idiot in how he has treated you as well.

Re kids, depends on their ages, but if older teens fine for them to know this about their dad. They need to understand the importance of financial stability and living within ones means, as well as that their parents make mistakes.

Re debt, do not dip into your savings. Let him pay it back as he says he will. Treat him like the adult, he needs to be. Do you work?

Re his attitude, not great, but I imagine this is his usual reaction to being challenged/aske for an explanation? I would leave him to it, but make it clear that you find this behaviour unacceptable. Set some boundaries and expectations, and see where you get.

Thank you @AttilaTheMeerkat

I think he is genuinely angry with himself. But this is what I fail to understand (and what scares me) with this particular situation - it doesn't sound like an oversight mistake. It sounds like he knew it was there all along, and just chose to ignore it.

I don't know why anyone would do that. He knew the debt was mounting. In fact if DC hadn't opened the letter the next step was debt collectors - so would I have found out when the bailiffs showed up? Why risk my trust like this? If he'd said 'I need to pay this tax bill' over a year ago (when the amount was much less), we would have found a way to deal with it.

At this point, I don't know if I even trust him to pay it off tbh - so that's another concern re 'let him deal with it'. I know that in the short term I need to insist on total transparency. If he refuses then that's a bigger problem.

In the long term, yes I do need decide whether this can work long term. I am very upset about the financial fuckery - but I am almost more upset in how he is entirely failing to acknowledge my position or feelings here. He has broken a promise, and my trust and respect for him are at an all-time low.

I am concerned for the DC because I don't want to worry them. My middle one is particularly sensitive, and I could see him immediately panicking that we were going to have to sell the house or whatever. I reassured him that it wasn't the case - but it's still shit for them.

@Itsanewlife - thank you. I do work yes, although he is the higher earner.

Re the debt, as I said earlier - I want to let him handle it but a) not sure I trust him to, and intend to insist on evidence that it's being sorted. b) I am hoping that if he's been in touch with HMRC and sorted a payment plan, they would not still be adding interest now? Does anyone know?

My head is spinning. I'm so upset.

Sorry you are so upset. Not having your feelings acknowledged is hard to handle. Do you feel like this is a one-off though or are there other ways in which he also undermines your feelings? Re debt, it is not a small sum but also not massive, so you might have to take your chances with trusting him to sort it. Agree, his ostrich attitude to a debt that's mounting is insane (I would be all over it like a rash, but some people really can't deal with stressful situations). In your position I would 'trust but verify' - any way you can check if he is actually addressing it? do you share a bank account?

So you bought a mortgage free house for both of you with some left over to bail him out? Well he landed on his feet didn't he! He's never had any responsibility and he's only angry that he got caught again. Don't make excuses for him. Is the house in both your names?

Thanks again. Re my feelings being disregarded - no, not new. I would say he is demonstrative, supportive and affectionate 'when it's easy', if that makes sense. But if I a problem of my own I want to discuss, he can be dismissive. I am a strong person and know to go to friends a lot of the time for emotional support. Not great.

He's very conflict adverse in many ways (but also loses his temper easily).

Re the debt - we do share a bank account for the majority of our outgoings and our salaries go into that, but we also have individual accounts.

@ginasevern - the house is in my name. But we are married, so legally our assets are joint (and jointly at risk) I think?

He is an idiot but tbh I don't think your approach has helped.
It would have been better to either wait until he got home or just to text "Letter arrived from HMRC, best you come straight home today".

He was on the back foot before he had even been able to read the letter himself.
I think you need to be a bit gentler while insisting that you are given all the necessary information. Definitely don't bail him out this time. He says he has made an arrangement to pay it back, so let him do that. Do you have a joint account which will show you what is happening going forward?
There is nothing wrong with allowing DC to know that parents make mistakes, so long as they can see you working together to put things right.
It's not a divorcing situation imho.

Your anger is understandable: your husband is behaving infantile, and in the end the problems fall on you.
This is not your area of responsibility, and that is why you are angry.
The fact that the argument happened in front of the children is nothing terrible - it will not affect them. There are no ideal families, we are all human.
The eldest child is already an adult enough to understand the situation.
It is normal that when we grow up, we begin to understand: parents have their flaws too.
What to do about the bills? I am not competent in this matter. I can suggest lending the money to your husband.
You pay off the debt, and he pays you back on a schedule from his income.
This is his mistake, so let him cut back on personal expenses, not family ones.
How to prevent this in the future? You cannot control an adult's finances. Talk to lawyers about how to protect yourself.
It is better to do this now, while the situation can be fixed. Later he may refuse to sign papers if needed. But now, feeling guilty, he will sign.

@Pearlstillsinging - I actually photographed the letter and sent it via text so he could see it. My tone was mainly shock and confusion - 'oh my god, what the hell is this?' particularly given they'd said they'd made several attempts to contact him.

This morning I made an attempt to communicate calmly, understand what the deal was - his response was aggressive and shouty and a general 'no, I am not discussing this right now'.

@TheMoonlit - thank you, particularly for thoughts about children. I feel awful about it, I don't want to worry them.

Re the debt - he's certainly not behaving like he 'feels guilty', he's behaving like he's angry with me, which is vile tbh. I want him to take accountability, but I don't think I trust him now.

You need to take a breath and calm down and, I’m sorry, but you need to act like a mature adult. No point crying over it. Talk to DH, let him know how disappointed you are and then work on the solution. 1st step would be to get confirmation he has actually set up the payment plan. Easy to say but it really isn’t the end of the world. The kids knowing or getting upset in front of them really isn’t an issue. You seem to be spiralling which really isnt helping anyone. Use this opportunity as a teaching moment for the kids about debt, how easy it is to get into it, and how to get out of it.

I think it’s not ideal to have difficult conversations when folk are getting organised for work. I completely understand your feelings about it and the urgency of getting it sorted but he’s clearly struggling too - justified or not. I know if my DH had sent something like that to me while I was at work he’d not get a great response, and trying to talk about it while I was preparing for work wouldn’t be any better.

I’d arrange time to talk about it when you both have time, when the kids aren’t around and give both of you time. He’s fucked up, and needs to be accountable for that but that’s going to be hard when emotions are running high.

How would you expect him to behave if he felt guilty? I suspect he’s both guilty and angry, but anger is often a more accessible feeling so that’s what you’re seeing.

Once again I want to reassure you.
Do not worry about the children. Do not blame yourself.
You behaved like a real person, that is normal. What is worse for children is when they are sheltered and treated unnaturally.
Trust me, children understand everything. You have not done anything bad to them.
Regarding your husband. He is an adult, you cannot re-educate him. The only thing you can do is protect yourself from his actions.

Stop bailing him out for a start

Regardless of the debt the way he spoke to you is not acceptable

He needs to explain how he has let this situation happen again

I'm a bit the same as him if I'm honest, a bit of an ostrich. But I basically had a word with myself to stop being a tit and I force myself to deal with things. I don't like it, but I do it. It's part of being an adult. Procrastination is a curse, but he has to recognise what it is and put things in place. He has to grow up, essentially. It's not nice though. And I do still put off things which are not crucial/urgent, but i allow myself to do that.

Aside from the added interest, what is the debt relating to?

if you have a mortgage fee house and both work your income vs outdoing should not be in the area of getting into debt , ie he should be able to pay the original amount due

id be furious that I) he didn’t 2) he’s left the balance grow 3) he didn’t tell you 4) he’s being disrespectful and lying now

and no, I would not care that my teenage children knew / I would of course reassure them that the house is fine and we are not in financial dire straights but would absolutely be ok with saying it’s not acceptable and you are hurt and angry with their dad but it’s between you not them

@Notmyreality - to be fair, not sure that I'm not behaving like an adult. I called him and he said 'can't talk about this right now'. I messaged him the information, and also pointed out that he'd promised not to do anything like this again. Also pointed out that he had recently bought himself a new bike and booked a (inexpensive, tbf) holiday with his mates, while knowing about this debt and ignoring it. On that, I said 'can you consider how this makes me feel?'

He blocked my messages and was very short with me before I left for the school event. This morning I - very calmly! - said 'okay, so what happened when you called HMRC?' and he responded very dismissively and aggressively, before storming out.

It's the DC who have seen me crying, not him.

@millymollymoomoo - thank you. I am unclear exactly what has happened, but from what I could deduce from him - he says this is because child benefit payments (which are under my name) have been going into a personal account of his. He is over the earning threshold for for us to receive the CB, but did not inform HMRC - he claims he tried.

Not sure I believe this. Have just looked at the bill again and there is amount that begun as just over 1k ' first self assessment payment on account' from April 2024. I can see that there's been tax, interest, and daily penalties added to this, which have caused it to balloon over the financial year, together with a 'second self assessment payment on account'.

I guess it adds up that the CB entitlement would have been about 3k. I presumed these payments had stopped ages ago as he had gone over the threshold.

don’t get how if you are both getting salaries, this is a HMRC debt matter? Is he self employed ?

I can understand both sides. You got a shock and were angry and disappointed and wanted to discuss it in the moment.

He was at work and, reasonably, couldn’t speak about it then. He told you that and you continued to message him - pointing out his recent purchases sounds like you were telling him or trying to provoke a response while he was trying to work.

The adult response would have been to recognise that trying to discuss it while he was at work, and had said he couldn’t talk, was counter productive and to wait until he got home. In all honesty I’d have blocked my DH or turned my phone off - because I was at work.

The adult thing on his side would have been to acknowledge the issue and assure you he’d come home on time and speak about it then, but he couldn’t give time to it while at work.

@UpDownAllAround1 - he is salaried, I am self employed. Presumably HMRC recognised that he was over the threshold but hadn’t paid the CB back?

If you’re over the CB limit as a PAYE employee you need to do a self assessment each year to repay the child benefit. It’s not as simple as advising them you’re over, you need to repay the CB as tax. It’s a simple enough system but looks complicated. Once you’re registered for self assessment you need to submit a self assessment each year or you accumulate penalties for late submission, even if you technically don’t need to do one (eg all earnings through PAYE, below the CB threshold).

@Jellycatspyjamas - he could have handled it 50000 times better. Yes he was at work but I think anyone would be shocked by a significant debt their spouse had been hiding/ignoring. And there’s no excuse for how he behaved this morning, when I attempted to question it calmly.