So lost - need help and reassurance

[concretemonolith]

Namechanged. In a bad place right now, and could very much use advice and thoughts.

Background - long marriage with DH. 3 teenage kids. Various ups and downs over the years, but a broadly happy and stable relationship.

Yesterday eldest kid home from uni opened a letter from HMRC (he has the same first initial as DH). He thought it was for him because he's just taking on part time employment. But it was for DH - a 'do not ignore this, we have tried to contact you several times' letter. A 5.5k debt that's been building for over a year, much of the amount due to late payment penalties and interest.

It's not the first time he's made such a mistake. A few years ago he ignored a credit card bill and again - the full amount mushroomed to a much larger amount. He promised me then that it wouldn't happen again, and that we would have full financial transparency going forward. For context - I came into the marriage with quite a large inheritance due to the sadly early death of my parents. This enabled us to buy a mortgage free house etc. The small amount of savings that remained have also helped him out over the years (eg for the credit card bill!), or when he left a job without another to go to.

Obviously I was shocked and angry. I called him at work, and he refused to discuss (tbf this would have been difficult). I messaged him with questions (not ranty or aggressive - more 'I can't believe this has happened again' etc). He didn't reply and then blocked me on text. We were due to go out to a school thing and I asked him to come home instead and get on the phone to HMRC to get to the bottom of this. At this point I was almost thinking it was an error, as he had filed a tax return in January.

I saw him briefly before I left - he was cold and uncommunicative. Just 'I am going to call them now.' By the time I got back (quite late), he'd gone to bed in the spare room.

This morning, when we were up, I tried to talk to him again. He briefly explained that yet again 'it's something I just ignored, I am an idiot, I am stupid'. I was trying to suggest ways we could manage to pay it off now and he said that he has set up a payment plan and will deal with it himself from his income.

He spoke to me aggressively - raising his voice etc. He's obviously furious with himself, but doing zero to apologise or attempt to explain himself. Younger DC heard. He left (slamming the door behind him).

Afraid to say I couldn't keep it together in front of DC or attempt to excuse what was going on. I was in floods of tears and told them what happened - and obviously eldest DC saw me in a state yesterday.

God, sorry this is so long. I need help with two things -

1. reassurance that it's not really awful the teenagers know that their dad has been a complete idiot and upset their mum?

2. how I should move forwards with him. The money is a worry - 5.5k is not a drop in the ocean. I could pull money from savings as I hate the thought of this debt getting bigger with interest (I am not even sure that's the case, but probably) or do I leave him to fix it? Obviously his income goes on household costs too, so it hits us either way.

But an even bigger worry is how he is behaving towards me. It feels immensely disrespectful. I know he is very angry with himself but this is unacceptable to me. I need advice on how long to give him to calm down and communicate like a bloody adult, and what I should do.

Thank you.

He's pissed off with himself and take it out on you which isnt great.

I don't think ringing and texting him about whilst he was a work was a great idea.

@Jellycatspyjamas - I think this is exactly what happened. He does file a self assessment despite being PAYE. He didn’t repay it as tax and ignored it.

Presumably it makes no difference that the CB payments were in my name?

Just to put things in perspective. With both of you working, and a mortgage-free house and savings - this is a solvable problem. Not good, for sure, but solvable. Unlike most of the other issues people come to mumsnet with. So, lend him the money to pay it off, so no interest/penalties get added, and then have him pay you back. Back off. It might give him space to let guilt and responsibility come to the fore rather than anger (at you, which is just deflection).

@Itsanewlife - thank you. This morning he was insistent that he would deal with it himself. While I think he should, I am worried about the accruing interest. Does anyone know what HMRC does with a payment plan?

So, OP got the child benefit payments and this is a DH problem to repay solely? Surely it’s both of them

@UpDownAllAround1 - um, no? If you read the thread you'll know the payments were going into my DH's personal account. I had no idea they were even coming through! Plus, all the letters and communication from HMRC were addressed to him, not me.

I’d be showing his HMRC letter to an accountant and get that person to explain why this has occurred. It’s his muck up and he buried his head in the sand only for this now to catch up with him and bite him. And this is repeated behaviour from him because he went ostrich like over the credit card too; his debt that you iirc paid off. This is twice too many in my view given also how he has reacted towards you since. You are not entirely faultless here because you should have shown him
the letter later on that evening but you van
learn from this, whether he will or not is open to question.

Op you can not trust him to have made that call and set out a payment plan,
You need proof op,
CB will decide what monthly payments are so this can be monitored by you surely,

Get him to log onto his gov.uk website and show you,

You need to keep on top of this op, yes I agree he should own this and only he pays it back ,
Agree with you your feeling I would be spinning op, and spitting nails right now,

The interest will be spread over the full term ,

Remember op he can not be trusted,

How long ago did the credit card issue arise?

Please say you ringfenced your money when you bought the house?

I couldn’t stay with someone like this. The stress of it would make me ill.

He’s angry he got caught out. If your son hadn’t opened the letter you still wouldn’t know.
He has a very nice lifestyle partly due to the fact that there is no mortgage/rent.
He is behaving like a teenager, and not a decent one, and you are turning into his mum.
And I understand why.
He has known that bill is coming, and is spending money which he sees as ‘his’ on treats for himself while there is a tax bill he’s avoiding.
You have done absolutely nothing wrong, and neither have your children.
He is an absolute arse.

You both need to work on your communication. What you are doing is neither helpful nor healthy.

Maybe check out the Gottman Institute.

I’m getting rejection sensitive dysphoria vibes from
his reaction. In any case, it’s best to let him seat in the discomfort of what he has done rather you being the one to approach him regarding a solution. Stop pandering to his huffing and puffing.

I could not live like this. You will never have peace of mind, always wondering when the next financial disaster will hit.

Leave him to sort it out and , long term, start planning to escape his mess.

Thank you for further thoughts. He has been silent all day.

I just sent a message saying 'I don't want to argue with you. I just want to understand what has happened here and make a plan to address the debt. Can you let me know what your plans are?' But I think my messages might still be blocked.

I have just seen he's bought a round in a pub near work which feels very, very shit.

It’s not helpful to label feelings and behaviours as adult or not adult. As though emotions and reactions in the moment are not adult.

OP don’t mother him out of this. The monetary side is solvable, as others have said. Keep quiet and see what happens. Imv it’s helpful that the children are aware.

@LilWoosmum82 - credit card bill thing was about 2/3 years ago.

@Gioia1 - what are 'rejection sensitive dysphoria vibes'?!

OP he knows you will buy him out of the money trouble, and that is one of the reasons why he is treating you this way now, and the reason is two fold, his reaction is to work you down to a level where you will be the one suggesting to pay off his debt as he knows you hate seeing him that way, and he knows you do anything to keep the peace within the family unit, and secondly, he is probably angry at himself, but consciously made this happen as he is fully aware you will safe him, every time. He knows what he is doing, he is an adult but because he knows there is savings to cover it, he lets this kind of mishap or in my opinion concisous choices, its not a mistake, this is a choice, he knows you will cave in.

@HoppityBun - agree with your point, I don't think calling and messaging him at work and expressing my shock is 'not adult.'

That said, I think blocking my messages, storming out and slamming doors, and going to the pub after work when we haven't communicated calmly about this is pretty damn CHILDISH!

@TheAvidWriter - he is insisting that he pays it himself.

I want things to calm down before I start to demand evidence that he's doing that, and further financial transparency going forward.

What I cannot handle right at this moment is the way he's projecting his anger onto me, when it's all his fault. Why isn't he saying - 'I am so sorry. This is a big fuck up and I will explain what happened. Let's discuss it calmly later'?

He has difficult and unreasonable in the immediate aftermath of conflicts in the past. But this has been over 24 hours now. It feels different and alarming.

@concretemonolith he can potentially negotiate with HMRC to lower the fines and penalties, if he has enough patience to wait ont he phoenix to actually talk to someone and not just do everything online. I've done that when I made a mistake due ti having to make a self assessment when I didnt know I woukd have to (not originally from the UK and my income went over the threshold for self assessment due to a bonus and I didn't know the rules).
Its not the end of the world and you should try to calm down a bit, although I know the hardest part is probably not the amount owed as much as the break in your trust in him.

HMRC won't charge interest but if he's made a payment plan then you'll get a letter with the details showing the monthly payments agreed via direct debit so keep an eye on the post. I would say its best to wait for this before offering to bail him out. He's just been burying his head in the sand hoping it will go away-is he a procrastinator? Most likely annoyed with himself but its shit taking it out on you.

Once you know he's arranged this I think you'll have to discuss how to avoid this happening in the future. Would it be possible for you to handle the finances for instance?

Don't worry about the effect on your dcs, everyone has ups and downs.

There have been a few similar threads on here this week so maybe have a look at them.

@concretemonolith 'rejection sensitivity' = MN pathologising every behavioural trait as neurodiversity or mental health.
You DH is an arse basically. He knows he's 100% in the wrong and there's no excuse, but will try to turn it on you rather than take responsibility.
Think your options are to chuck him out or insist that you manage all finances including opening mail from HMRC. He can't be trusted and the abusive response is unacceptable.
But he pays the debt either way.

@concretemonolith RSD Is a strong emotional reaction to perceived criticism or rejection. The person gets really angry at the’source’ of the perceived criticism and then the main issue caused by them is set aside and the focus then becomes how hurt they are etc. So for e.g when he says “I am stupid”… he’s basically saying you called him stupid or think he’s stupid. In actual fact you simply asked what was going on. it is a very maladaptive way of dealing with insecurity low self esteem and an unwillingness to take accountability for actions.

This is why it is imperative you stay silent and do not pander to him at all Stop going to him. For once keep quiet and let him fix the problem he’s caused.

so child benefit in your name and you never received any post in your name from CB? Maybe I am being thick but something does not add up. Is he intercepting your post?