Please tell me what the impact of marriage counselling was for you

[Squarehairbear]

I've come to the slow realisation that I don't think I can live with things the way they are with DH. Nothing dramatic, no other parties involved but he has, over our 20 years of marriage, done a lot of things I've found very hurtful. He can be very cold and detached, and very rigid in his thinking. I think all of this could be overcome but he doesn't seem willing to reflect on his behaviour. He was very unsupportive in the early years of our having DC but will always deny this (despite hard evidence) and attempts to address it get shut down or I'm told I'm 'angry' or 'getting at him'. He has travelled a huge amount for work over the years so I spent a lot of time on my own with the DC but I've noticed that he's started minimising that and implying that I'm exaggerating things. Over the years, I've talked myself down about it and balanced out my negative thoughts about the relationship by telling myself all the really good things he does - and there are many, I really do recognise the good things about him. I'm also very aware that I'm obviously as flawed as the next person (or more so!) and there will be things I've done and do that have, if not hurt him, then irritated him and got him down. But things have come to a head (in my mind at least) since Mother's Day - both DC forgot and he knew it was mother's day (sent his own mum flowers etc) but decided it 'wasn't his job' to remind the DC. So no-one so much as wished me Happy Mother's Day - until DD realised late in the day and was gutted, made me a card the next day etc. Anyway, the point was not mother's day itself but the fact that he knew how hurt I would be but did nothing and, although it's a minor issue, it's made me realise things are a bit broken between us. I don't think he recognises this.

Our youngest DC will likely be leaving home in the next couple of years and I fantasise a lot about moving into a flat on my own somewhere. I don't look forward to spending time with him the way I used to and I'm losing hope that anything will change.

But, we have a life together, children, animals, a house, we both come from big families that are very intertwined now, and I keep thinking of all the things that separation would mess up. I also keep imagining what would happen if one of us got sick - and how important it would be to be there for each other. The whole thing feels totally intractable.

I recently confided in a friend who thinks I should broach the subject of marriage counselling with DH. I've started googling and found someone who might be suitable. But my heart does sink at the thought of how gruelling it would be, and I don't have much hope of the dynamics between us changing. Please can you tell me if you've tried it and how it was/what, if anything, it changed?

thank you

It helped me realise I needed out, it took a couple of years but I ended it and 20 years later I'm very happy and more importantly my children are happy adults, that outcome wouldn't have happened if I'd stayed.You know deep down when it's not right.

I would just get out OP I bet counselling wouldn’t work on him sorry. I just think these men are all the same

Thanks for taking the time to respond. If you don't mind me asking, was there anyone else involved for either of you or was it the kind of thing I've described above (drifting apart in one way or another)? Did you instigate the counselling and did your OH engage with it?

Sorry x-posted but in case it wasn't clear, the above message was for @PTSDBarbiegirl

Due to me feeling so exhausted and unhappy trying to appease the ex and lots of other issues around enmeshment he had with his parents and family I was isolated and realised that it was all very toxic for me. It did mess things up with the families for a while but it was intolerable and does not improve. I realised that despite the fact I did love a part of him still he would never change and I could never forgive his treatment of me and the children. You have a chance to be happy in life and in another 20 years that may diminish.

Made absolutely no difference apart from wasting some money.

Made it 100% worse and we wasted a lot of money.

That's a really cruel thing to do - Mother's Day. To you and your children. It's not even not trying, it's actively choosing to hurt you.

Crikey, this is a bit depressing. But thank you for your honesty.

@Notmycircusnotmyotter I was really hurt by it but he just doesn't see it that way. Thinks it was the DC's responsibility to remember (one is now 18 so technically an adult) and, while I see his point, she is super busy (a-level year) and genuinely hadn't realised. He did eventually find some food in the fridge and make dinner (I cook for the family usually) but only having realised I wasn't going to cook and having noted I was upset. He seems actually baffled about why I'd be upset.

I was in a similar length marriage and tried to persuade him to go to counselling whilst we were together and he wouldn’t. I ended it, he moved out and the reality of having to cook, clean and look after the DC’s hit hard, and suddenly he was interested in counselling. I made it clear that I wouldn’t go back to him as he sounds exactly like your DH. He was absent from family life and when he was there he didn’t do anything despite me working full time too. My life was so much better apart.
He booked some sessions with relate and I agreed to go to help us communicate better so we could coparent. He started off the first session by saying he wanted us to get back together! By then I was completely done and he’d eroded any feelings I had for him. He went to the rest on his own then had individual counselling elsewhere. He’s a much better father now but he’d done too much damage for the marriage to be saved.
He would never have changed if I’d stayed and I’d still be miserable. The year I ended it he forgot Valentine’s Day, Mother’s Day then my birthday.
It takes two to work on a marriage and if he won’t accept any responsibility whilst you’re together then marriage counselling may not work. My advice would be to leave.

If you need marriage counselling it’s over. It’s a total con in my honest opinion. Best to just move on. He sounds emotionally absent.

I do think once kids turn 18 it’s not up to their dad to remind them about Mother’s Day though but not sure how old yours are.

I appreciate everyone taking the time to post but finding this really sad.

@TheHouse I agree the 18YO should have remembered. She was very apologetic when she realised and made up for it the day after. My issue is that DH was with her the night before (I was away taking other DC to an event) and, knowing they'd both forgotten, could so easily have given one of them a nudge 'don't forget to give mum a mother's day hug' or something. What upsets me is that he didn't care how it would make me feel. In the reverse scenario I'd have protected his feelings regardless of what I thought the DC 'should' have done.

It a very small issue in the bigger scheme of things but it's triggered something in me and now I'm reevaluating everything.

In my first marriage, same as you with a 20+ years of marriage and 2 kids, we did attend two or three sessions of counseling. But it didn't work because he was too defensive and was convinced the therapist was totally against him and sided with me, which totally wasn't the case. He'd be livid with me for bringing up the issues, but how did he think we'd resolve anything without doing so? And he'd also say I was manipulative to start crying during a session, as if doing so was showing how horrible he was.

There was no cheating. He had depression which he displayed by being angry over minor things which would not upset the average person and I couldn't take it anymore.

That said, I'm glad I went anyway, because with kids involved, I could at least feel at peace that I did everything in my power before throwing in the towel.

If you want to baby step into suggesting counseling, before that you could say to him, "I love you and want to improve our relationship. Can we read this couples book together which has suggestions on communication and activities to strengthen our emotional connection?"

You can look at the library or make a purchase in a bookstore or online. If he isn't willing, nor willing to attend counseling, then it's time to consider divorce, but before that, make sure you relay how serious this is to your husband. Maybe he will be willing to make the effort when given an ultimatum.

If he refuses, no sense in staying with someone who doesn't care about your happiness. Divorce isn't easy but it's a temporary, stressful transition which does have an end date.

I divorced and eventually happily remarried. Though long distance, I continued to have good relations with my ex's family. After all, we had a long history.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

thank you for your thoughtful post @ScorpionLioness79 I fear DH's reaction will be the same as your first husband's - my heart sank when I read his response to the therapist. I have suggested therapy a couple of times in the past when things weren't great and he has always shrugged it off. I was thinking I'd frame it that, 'things are changing with DC leaving in the next few years and I want us to have a healthy relationship and happy future together in those years'.

If it makes you laugh, my marriage counsellor kept taking my side. My ex then accused us of being too pally and I had to fire her because we did keep ganging up on him. So I don’t know if that gives you hope or at least just makes you laugh.

Reading this really makes me want to know what therapists think. They must see couples all the time and realise straight away that one person isn't committed and therefore the counselling isn't going anywhere - do they ever intervene and say 'there's not point to this because one party is not interested in changing anything'?

Crazy these guys just insisting that the marriage counsellors are biased! I actually thought I might need to try and find a male counsellor because if it's a woman I fear he'll just assume she's siding with me automatically. But the majority around here do seem to be female.

Have to head off to a work event shortly but thank you again for your thoughts - still interested in hearing of other experiences and will check in again later

Really he was baffled? So he could buy his own mother a gift but not the mother of his children ? Who put her body through that and child birth and then raised them very much as a single parent?? !!
I would lose my shit.

My DC are not my husbands children - he took them (one is over 18) and chose flowers, gifts and cards and gave me one from him as did my adult step son nearly 30also got me a card and present. He also did his own mother - DH. Perhaps Father’s Day you can see what happens as I bet the DC remember his and he wants it celebrating!

the only way to see if he is serious is to say I’ve booked a counsellor to see if we can both save the marriage but currently I’m not happy and I can call it a day. His response will tell you everything.

I am so happy with my DH really really happy. But I was also happy alone and I was a million times happier with myself and dog compared to myself an ex.

Maybe you need to have counselling on your own to see what you want.

It was absolutely ridiculous. She became aware the relationship was not salvageable and did encourage us to split up towards the end, which is why I think he really lost his shit with her

We have had it and actually we have found it useful. We often leave feeling a renewed sense of closeness and we find it helpful to discuss grievances openly and also to remind ourselves of some of the good parts.

I’m a psychotherapist and work with couples and individuals. I couldn’t generalise on couples’ work because some couples come to work on their relationship and some come as a form of closure; generally the person who wants out appeases the ‘shock’ of the decision for the other person by agreeing to come. It’s pretty obvious from early into it who are committed to working on it together and who aren’t and I personally wouldn’t waste peoples or my own time by letting something go on and on if I felt there wasn’t transparency about the reasons for going into counselling. Can it help? In either if the cases I’ve outlined, I do think it can really help - either to facilitate positive coparenting/ending in a healthier way or actively working on what’s going wrong. It’s generally communication issues, intimacy issues or the aftermath of an affair. From what you’ve written, I admit, I think your DH may not be keen unless he feels there is no choice, and that’s never a good starting place for positive change. But like someone else said, even if it’s over, you’ll know you tried. Best of luck.

OP I’ve had two marriage counsellors and am also just about to qualify as a counsellor this summer so I can speak to this to some extent! In my personal opinion he needs to be onboard to attend. I would be fully honest and say that as things stand you are feeling worried that you might not feel happy enough to stay together after the DC leave, but in an ideal world you would stay together. Don’t sugar coat it with what you suggested as he won’t hear that and he won’t appreciate the possibility of you leaving.

Our (good) marriage counsellor suggested whenever you have something on your chest ask yourself the following questions:
do I need to say this?
is now a good time to speak to him?
can I say it in a way that he will hear?

if the answer is yes to all then go ahead and speak in the “I”. I feel x, I worry x etc. no blame language.

We are still at younger child stage so not the same as you but FWIW we found Relate pretty bad and unhelpful and nearly gave up our marriage. We had about 12 sessions with them but they were very unstructured, meandering and undirected. 50 minutes was also not enough for 2 people full of bubbling resentment to get everything off their chests. As a (nearly) counsellor I would say that often couples are very time poor (part of our problem) and so meandering sessions that go on for weeks and weeks can leave them feeling more frustrated and not able to speak everything they have on their minds or resolve things .

We later found an exceptional therapist who worked in intensive blocks. She was more expensive per session that Relate (quite £££) but she worked much more intensively and cut to the chase a LOT quicker, and had a fixed number of something like 6 sessions - I can’t remember now. She also spent around 2 hours talking to both of us individually first which really helped us both to feel heard. It was online which meant we could do it from home.

I am happy to recommend privately if you like the sound of her and I think she did a free trial consultation. But either way I would say think about these issues so that you both feel like you’re making progress early on as it helps both parties to stay motivated.

This is really honest and helpful - thank you @Vivisays

@underthehawthorntree I'm really glad it has been effective for you and your OH

One idea is the weekly meeting - it’s where you agree to an hour meeting very week and talk about topics. Knowing it is one hour can help avoid feeling that it will get too heavy and drag on which is what I think some husbands can think ‘talking’ is. Might be an idea? I think the time leading up to the kids leaving is a real chance for a reappraisal for both of you in terms of income, time, responsibilities so even if you are getting on well you need to discuss all of that. So you need to start this even if not in therapy