My mother - lower contact needed after this

[pandarific]

Just called my aunt to find out what on earth my mother has been saying about me, having come to my cousin’s wedding and my mother announcing with the grooms mother beside her that she’d been “bitching” about me at the hen party. My aunt hadn’t heard anything and also denied being there (she was standing right beside my mother when she said that to me about bitching) so either she doesn’t know or doesn’t want to know. Okay, fine.

I didn’t expect it and we just turned up to the wedding as normal, chatted to family I hadn’t seen in ages and left at 10:30 (kiddos with babysitter). She apparently stayed up until 4am.

We popped into the afters the next day to wish the bride and groom well and allow them to meet the kids / say bye before leaving, my mother came to sit with us and I noticed the grooms mother and the bridesmaids staring. I’ve not trusted her or her judgement since I was about 12, but I’m just a bit ?!? what on earth.

I don’t particularly want to know exactly what she’s said (I can guess), but I do want to know the actual character of the person I’ve been giving love and access to my family. It’s difficult because you are primed to seek your mother’s love, and so when something wild happens you just… forget, until something else wild happens and then you suddenly remember all of the other times. Apparently the “whiplash” feeling is very common?

The irony is my life is going well, I have a new job I’m doing well at, a side hustle I’m mid turning into a business of my own, marriage good, kids are thriving, house renovation progressing… I have looked up “covert narcissist” before and gone “ah yes, my mother.” It would make sense that she does not like if things are going well for me but I’m still kind of shocked.

I wore a light coloured suit to the wedding and unexpectedly got my period at the meal and had to ask some staff members for a pad - I was treated with such empathy and compassion by all of the women involved, the one who showed me the way to reception and the ones on the actual desk. They were about five times nicer to me than my actual mother. Idk what I want from this thread apart from just getting it out.

She is a miles better grandparent than parent and my children (5 and 7) adore her, much like I did mine until I got old enough to realise she was not actually a very good person - when my kids are old enough my plan is to blame “getting old”/dementia etc. Idk I don’t want to see my mum for a while but she is visiting this week (pre-arranged) - I am just going to be very, very busy and barely see her. For context, my parents are long term separated, I am NC with my sister as her mental health is very bad and she is the grandiose kind of narcissist - the reason she wasn’t at the wedding was because she had been reported to the police for harassing my cousin, the bride. 🙈 Morto. I am at least happy we behaved like normal people

What do you think she said about you? Does your mother have other narcissistic traits too? chances are that she's jealous of you and enjoys putting you down. The only way to deal with these people is to reduced contact or go no contact. I've reduced contact with mine down to once per month and that's bad enough. They are jealous toxic people and sadly will never change. I would be wary of telling her so much about your life as narcs tend to use stuff against you, and just keep superficial conversations only

Probably that:
our house is digusting and isn’t it dreadful - we have cleaners weekly but are renovating
i used to be a nice soft person but am now horrible - I disagree with her sometimes and have my own mind
I’m not risk averse enough with my children / am a not bothered mother - we hired a babysitter and I’m the main earner right now so am working my ass off
how I don’t “help” with my sibling - when I was in hospital with pancreatitis and had a 4mo at home sibling accused my husband of poisoning me, this was the point I went NC
Idk something about how I “got myself diagnosed” with adhd - my kid is diagnosed AuDHD as am I a year ago which she was also shit about I think I made a thread here at the time

idk those are my guesses. I’m exhausted

…now worrying that I’ve got it all wrong and imagined some big deal when there wasn’t. Maybe she was just being a bit of a dick and I’m taking her too seriously?

It's a bit hard to follow, sorry - the groom's mother told you that your mum had bitched about you at the hen party. You called your aunt to find out what she said, but your aunt said it hadn't happened. You think she's lying and are fairly sure what your mum said because she has form for criticising you, but she's a good grandparent. You are nc with your sister and want to go lc with your mum.

Is that the gist of it? If so, then I wouldn't make it about the wedding situation because she'll just deny it like your aunt has and you're already doubting yourself. If she's been a bad parent to you and you don't want to see her, then that's reason enough to be lc. If there's a way to just facilitate her relationship with your dc, if that's as good as you say, then do that and pull back in your personal engagement with her. Just talk about the kids and don't share too much.

@pinkdelight almost, I had just met the grooms mother and was telling her how lovely the reception was and my mum then said “yes this is my daughter” and said to me right in front of her “I was bitching about you at the hen do” and laughed.

Aah I missed that. If your mum said it and laughed it sounds like a joke and that she probably didn't say anything really bad, but you know her best and know your own limits so it's fine to set boundaries with her about what's okay or not.

OP

No you have not got it wrong at all re your mother. She was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and she has not changed fundamentally in the years since. It is not your fault she is like this and you did not make her that way. She has always been a dick when it comes to you and likely dished out the same ill treatment to you that was done to her as a child.

Would suggest you now cancel her forthcoming visit to you; no good will come to you from seeing her. Cite work and or d and v or something. Do not have her in your home.

She uses your children as supply and likes them because they are easy to control and or manipulate at those ages. Make no mistake here either; your children do not adore her. They fear her and she can and likely does show her disapproval to one of them over the other; it can be a look, a pinch. The harm to them is being done right in front of your very eyes.

If she is too difficult / toxic for you to deal with it's the SAME deal for your kids too and they also need to stay away from her. She will likely harm them too in not too dissimilar ways as to how you have been harmed.

It is not possible to have a relationship with someone this disordered of thinking.

You do not mention your dad here; is he still around?.

You can try and set boundaries but this will be difficult because she has encouraged you to not have any and she will simply ignore any you care to set.

Do read Children of the self absorbed by Nina W Brown.

OP

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles; your sister is playing a role, you are playing a role, your aunt is playing a role too. What roles are you playing here?.

I would also assume she is playing favourites with your kids with one being the scapegoat whilst the other is her golden child. Both roles are roles not without price and your own sibling is more favoured.

As everyone seems to be saying different things, I’d just let it go. No need for a drama at someone else’s hen party.

I’m sorry, this doesn’t make any sense. Try reading it back.

I think sometimes in life we don't get the answers we want or crave. So I have found the best we can do in those situations is be our own best friend (positive self talk etc) and protect our peace. I would cancel her visit. She needs to learn her actions have consequences though I doubt very much she ever will .

She’ll start on your children next. Seen it happen with my mil & DN’s. They play the same games all over again with the grandkids.

My mil is a classic covert narc too.

Sounds like it.

@pandarific listen to Attila seriously a lot of us have had mothers like this and it is so soul destroying. The fact your mother even thinks it is ok to 'bitch' and gossip about you is so humiliating and shes probably been doing it your whole life. Join the stately homes threads and have a read of what some of us have also gone through as it is very very samey with mothers like this.

Awful. I think it’s the old bring you down a peg by saying that because she knew it would send you into an ADHD spiral of second guessing and sleeplessness.
I would not want her around my kids. This part, the early years where she is being nice to them (and was to you) is the grooming. The creating of an emotional bond, of a trust link so that when they’re older (just like you) she can start the mind games.

Agree with this. Mine is a toxic narcissist who says horrible things behind my back and to my face. I’m just ignoring her now. I don’t intend to visit her for as long as I can manage or help her with anything .

Your poor sister. How much of her mental health struggles stem from your mum?

You sound overly sensitive and I can’t work out why? What’s missing? You mum joked about bitching about you, the normal
reaction is to jokey ask “what have a done now”.

You talk about people staring at you, but again that sounds overly sensitive were they just looking in your direction perhaps? And what’s the significance of starting your period, and staff being nicer than your mum- you’re not a child and this sounds like quite a childish comparison to make.

It doesn’t actually sound like your mum did much wrong, you’ve just assumed a load of stuff. Perhaps she is a nightmare but I’m not getting narcissist from what you’ve said. You perhaps need to work on yourself a little bit, perhaps with a therapist. There is a lot of sensitivity and anger there for what sounds like no reason. Perhaps consider and play with the idea- what if it’s not everybody else, what if it’s you?

Seconding the suggestion of therapy! If your mum really does have narcissistic tendencies (and no one online can really judge that), then as others have said, you need to protect your kids. Not nec NC, but distant/guarded/supervised. If she is a narc, then she will adore then as long as they reflect well on her, but as soon as they are teens with their own thoughts/priorities/differences that she finds challenging, the depreciation will start up again. I don't recommend lying - it means your kids will learn to distrust their own gut instincts. Without overloading them with your own history (which is itself a form of boundary- crossing, just tell them that she's always been difficult and it's not their fault, or yours.

I strongly relate to the part where you realise that other people can be nicer to you than your Mum, and that she isn't very motherly! Mine wasn't either.

I'd back off a bit, see her in the Grandparent context and make the best of that. Don't worry about how she will be in the future, that's the future and has a million possibilities.

I also recommend counselling - I found that talking stuff through helped to unravel some pretty complicated thoughts and left me with a better picture of why my Mum was like she was. What she did wasn't nice or kind but I had a better understanding of why she did it.

Your entire beef seems based on assumptions and guesswork as to what she may have said. The comment along the lines of "I've been bitching about her" seem like a throwaway joke to me and I would never take that seriously. If you are actually going no contact over this then you need to consider whether your decisions are based on reality or a huge misconception.

I'm shocked at other posters cheering you on when you've given such a vague description of what your mother may or may not have done. This should surely show you that mumsnet is full of goady commenters who will egg anyone on for any reason as long as they can eat their popcorn while they read all the gory details of the aftermath.

Tread carefully.

Op has come to learn that her mother cannot be at all trusted. I guess your own mother is great but sadly not all mothers are kind and nice to their offspring. Some of therm are actively abusive. The comment I’ve been botching about her should never be seen as some ttowawsy joke. Jokes are supposed to be funny, this was said in all seriousness.

Ops mother announced that she had been bitching about her at the hen party op attended so she heard that directly. @Trying to play down or otherwise minimise the OPs own experience here is not helpful.

If you don’t trust her I would be worried that she is getting your kids on side so that she can turn them against you when they are older, they will become her flying monkeys. She definitely has narcissistic traits. My ex MIL was the same. When she started criticising me to my young daughter (after her son was an absolute shit to me and DD) it was time to draw a line in the sand. Keep your DC close and protect your peace. She may be jealous of you and will sabotage, if things are going well for you she will hate it, narcs cannot stand this. They are deep down miserable insecure people who can never be happy for anyone and will create drama and discord to make themselves feel better. Make an excuse and cancel her visit and aim to be LC.

Thanks all for the responses and apologies it didn't make much sense - essentially my mother is a classic covert narc, split up with my dad when I was a teen, I see him separately with his now partner. To be clear, I wasn't at the hen do, but my mother obviously was, as well as the bridesmaids and the groom's mother. So, when I had just met the groom's mother and my mum said to me in front of her "I was bitching about you at the hen do hahahhaha" it did throw me off balance.

@MyMiniMetro @Blocksfruity I didn't include any background really so it's fair you ask, all I can say is she was emotionally and physically abusive growing up - she had a raw deal with two undiagnosed SEN kids, lots of house moves, she worked and my dad then fucked off when it got really tough with my sister, however. Those things did still happen and she will never really acknowledge any of it. But that I have more or less made my peace with, and you know, whatever - fine. I try to keep it light.

Not totally relevant to this but my sister very likely has undiagnosed SEN (runs in the family) which means she is NEET and abusive which is why I am NC with her. My mother is the only one who is still in touch with her, and is essentially her carer. This is partly where some of my mothers rage comes from - her life is hard and has been hard, but there's no actual reason that should be pointed at me. I'm repeatedly made a target for her anger and I'm just kind of done with it.

At the wedding when she said the above I did laugh and say "oh god I wonder what I'd done I can't remember" and brushed it off, she then continued and said "and that was a JOKE now, Panda" sort of to the groom's mother. I again just repeated I wondered what I had done and then that was that - back to the rest of the reception.

If she is a narc, then she will adore then as long as they reflect well on her, but as soon as they are teens with their own thoughts/priorities/differences that she finds challenging, the depreciation will start up again
Yep. This is how it was with me, and how it will be again I'm sure, BUT. I am going to stick her in a home / blame dementia / age and that means my kids will have pleasant memories of a grandparent who adored them hopefully without the shitty end of the stick that I got.

She is still coming to visit tomorrow - it's more trouble than its worth stopping it. I am just going to be very very verrrry busy oh dear so sorry can't really stop rushing around...

before "why are you even allowing her near your children" - because:

• We live in a different country to my husbands parents
• I do not have a lovely happy extended family closeby, I am doing my best with what I have
• I would like my children to have positive memories of a grandparent who loved them
• she is lovely to the children and doesn't golden child / scapegoat with them
• if she ever did I would cease allowing her to see them - she has tried to blame me to my 4 yo previously and I cut down on visits sharply and told her if she ever does that again they will stop entirely
• she stays with us when she visits as she is 3 hours drive from us
• I am doing the best I can with what I have - recently I have taken to grey rocking her and using conflict handling advice so she is less likely to successfully provoke me