Should I tell my adult son about his dad’s abuse when he asks?

[DressingGownDoor]

My eldest doesn’t live at home (very complicated), he is autistic and lives in supported living near his dad, and his dad has been supportive mixed with incredibly unhelpful (unhelpfulness reported by social workers, not my potentially biased opinion), but my son recognises the support his dad has given him over the last year, and so do I.

Background - dad was abusive towards me mainly, the kids also to some extent. I left 10 years ago, ds1 chose not to see dad for a number of years, his younger siblings saw dad supervised at contact centre, then supervised by family members, then unsupervised for a while before some incidents made me stop contact and go back to court which took ages and ended with him being granted unsupervised contact again which went on for a couple more years very infrequently (due to dad not me) with a few more incidents and then younger kids have in the last 2 years decided not to see him as they are now young teens and able to decide for themselves. The last incident before they decided to stop seeing him involved him screaming abuse at me at pick up in front of them.

Theres a lot more but I don’t want to make this too long. In a nutshell DS1 because abusive towards me and younger siblings as he became an older teen and eventually he couldn’t live in the family home safely with us any more which is why he’s in the supported living. He has severe mental health issues.

I have been aware over the years that dad has spoken inappropriately (imo) to all the kids about the circs of the break up, accused me of lying to police, lying in court etc - unfortunately while he was convicted of assaulting a female police officer in custody, there was not enough evidence regarding me.

Ds1 told me last night that dad had told him everything, that he knows everything that happened and that it’s terrible ‘that I’m not letting the younger ones see dad, it’s so awful for dad, that I’ve lied to the younger ones about dad etc. He asked me to tell him my side since he’s an adult now. I had Ds2 beside me at the time so I said I couldn’t speak then.

In general my policy has been never to speak badly of their dad to them. More lately when the younger ones have repeated lies their dad has told them in the past, I’ve corrected them factually without going into detail, but that is all.

What should I do if/when Ds1 asks me again? He is an adult but I dont want to collude in putting him in the middle. I don’t know exactly what his dad has told him, but I don’t want to tell him all the details and frankly, since he values his dads support I don’t want to tell him anything bad about him at all really.
But Ds1 had sent me a message before he called saying I wasn’t his mum anymore, and started the call by saying it would be the last time I spoke to him because dad had told him ‘everything’
I called him back later in the evening and he didn’t mention it at all because he was deep in his special interests at the time so we just spoke about those.
DS1 does speak to his siblings from time to time, and he tends to tell stuff even if he’s been asked not to, so I think it’s likely that anything I did tell him would eventually be heard by them.

What shall I do?

I would tell them all exactly what happened. There is not badmouthing the ex and then there is this. Think of what is in their long-term best interests. It’s an ongoing, strong, supportive relationship with you (not their awful dad).

I think if he asks again you should tell him a truthful axccount of what happened.
Not going into unnecessary detail.
Why should you let him believe a lie? I don't think lies ever do anyone any good.
He deserves honesty.
And you deserve to have the truth told to preserve your own integrity in his eyes.

How much will he let it lie? If you were to say that things were different than what your dad says, and there are multiple police records to prove this. But this is in the past, your dad loves you and is helping you so that's all that matters- would he let it lie at that?

Ask him what he knows. Tell him which bits of his knowledge are not true.

Ok thanks. People I’ve asked irl also say answer factually when asked.
I can't just say it was a toxic relationship that caused supervised child visits and leave it at that, I know my son and he would not be satisfied with that.

This is sensible

Yes, I think that must be part of it, but I think he’d be unlikely to leave it at that

Using the phrase “toxic relationship” makes it sound like the OP was partially responsible for the abuse she suffered. I could not disagree more with saying this, especially to a son who has also behaved abusively, which is likely a result of what he saw and absorbed as a child. He needs to know what happened was not normal and not OK or this might happen to some future girlfriend.

OP, if you tell him the truth, it is not you who has put him in the middle, but your ex. He is the one spinning a bullshit narrative to disrupt your relationship with your son. I think you have to calmly and factually set out what happened.

Completely agree re the toxic relationship thing, it is untrue and also likely to be very unhelpful for an autistic young man who is an absolute truth seeker (from experience!).

He can ask you specific factual questions and you can answer, but you won't rise to baiting, false allegations, emotive or manipulative behaviour?

He is obviously aware of the police involvement.
he could ask for support from his workers to obtain a Clare’s Law disclosure from the police. I would say he is entitled to this as dad may potentially abuse him in the future and he needs to be able to protect himself as an independent person.

Dad has said that you are lying about some parts - I agree with others to ask him what he knows and correct him on what did happen.

Support workers need to be involved IMO so that there is safety planning to reduce any potential for abuse to DS1 as he is vulnerable adult.

Thank you - very helpful responses

Clare’s law will return nothing - because on one count (which I would never ever speak about to any of the children in any capacity - he raped me multiple times) the investigation was dropped because lack of evidence, and on the assault charge it did go to court, and he stood in court and lied through his face, and because i hadn’t gone to police at the time (or at any of the times that he assaulted me over the years) there was insufficient evidence, and therefore it couldn’t be proven beyond reasonable doubt so a not guilty verdict was returned.
So his dad has told the kids multiple times over the years that I lied in court and he was found not guilty, and what the hell do I say about that? I didn’t lie, he did lie under oath, I heard him do so, but it’s his word against mine.

He ended up being arrested because I went to do a Clare’s law request myself (at that time I thought the abuse was all my fault, hence never reporting anything), because I knew that an ex girlfriend of his had had an injunction against him (obviously when he told me that at the beginning I fell for the ‘crazy ex’ story), but it was a civil injunction and Clare’s law doesn’t include those. I also had civil injunctions against him, which also won’t come up.

I would absolutely tell them he lied in court and he did abuse you, and that courts only order supervised contact when there are serious safeguarding concerns.

There is far, far too much pressure on abused women to effectively cover up what men have done, all in the name of ‘not speaking ill of the father’.

I actually think it’s a huge unkindness to kids. They will know in their heart of hearts that dad is a liar and an abuser, and failure to affirm this to them when they ask, is basically gaslighting them into doubting their own take on things.

The abusers tell lies. You tell the truth. Just tell it like it was.

❤️

Why do you think that the younger 2 don't know that their Dad was an abusive husband? They have seen it all first hand!

The best way to talk to DS1 about it imho us to start with the fact that he had to have supervised contact at a centre, that isn't ordered lightly, because of the staffing implications.

This is just awful OP I’m so sorry for your experience.
It might be worth you contacting a DV charity to get expert advice as I am sure this must be a difficult situation many women find themselves in.

Perhaps you could ask him if he knows what a lie is. See whether he understands the concept that some people can tell you things which are not true.

Explain that each person, including him, will need to decide for themselves whether what someone else tells them is true or not.

Then let him think about that for a while.

I've been in a similar position. The advice was always to find out what they think they know and work from there. With your son's added needs I'd ask advice from his case worker, as doing things in an age appropriate manner might not look the same in your son's case. My son never did swallow his dad's version of events but also wanted to know the truth particularly when one girlfriend decided to claim he was 'just like his dad' which couldn't be further from the truth. Sometimes they have to 'know' to settle themselves that it wasn't something they did, it's never easy and the biggest thing is to remain as factual as you can, almost like a list rather than any emotion.

The younger ones do know, that is why dad is telling ds1 that I have told them a load of lies and that that is why they don’t want to see him - when in reality as you say they saw him being abusive towards me, and unfortunately during the last contacts they had he was also verbally abusive towards DS2. So they know, and have subsequently asked questions which I have answered factually but minimally
(Along the lines of. ‘Did dad hurt you mum?’ - ‘Yes he did’ - ‘What did he do?’ - ‘You don’t need to know the details’)

I had had lots of help from DV charities, most recently last year I did a course with my younger ones aimed at healing and teaching the kids about healthy relationships while the mums separately talked about experiences and how to help their kids. My experience is that you get a mix of - answer factually but minimally, and - never say anything bad about dad, they’ll find out for themselves.

tell it factually, in an age appropriate way. Children these days know a lot about the world, and that things aren’t black or white; good or bad.
Explain that their Dad has a different view ; explain like you did to us how he justifies it and makes it convincing. But why it’s not how you and other people see things.
Explain that as he gets older, he has to be careful with what he believes.

This is good thanks