Feeling very sad and lost

[glostghost]

I’ve name changed for this post. Just sat at home on the sofa with one of my DC and feel like bursting into tears. Earlier DH and I had an awful argument. It was about the back flip on of the ice skaters did at the Olympics of all things. I thought it was impressive and showed the DDs and DH a clip yesterday, he wasn’t impressed and said he’d seen it done loads before. I accepted that, but I googled it because I was surprised I hadn’t seen it done before and found out ‘oh it was made illegal for ages that’s why it stood out’ and thought that was the end of that conversation - until today he brought it up, saying ‘someone did it before in the 90s, I must have see it done as a child’ - this annoyed me because I didn’t understand why he was going on about it, so I said ‘I don’t know, I don’t think you’d remember that, why is it so important to you to be right about this?’ And then the argument escalated from there to a point where he told me to shut the fuck up and said when the kids were grown up he’d be gone - it was absolutely ridiculous. He’s spoken to me like that in a couple of arguments in the past 10 years and I’ve always stood up for myself, said I won’t be spoken to like that etc and we’ve resolved things - but today I just don’t feel like we can. He went on to say that he thinks I’m unhappy with our relationship and lying to myself, I said that he needed to stop putting words in my mouth and say how he felt, and then it’s the same issues about lack of sex etc that we’ve had crop up before and I’m just sick of it all to be honest. Things have been good between us and his having nice family times, both working hard, these things crop up sometimes like lack of sex but we always try and agree that it’s hard to at the moment because of the kids not sleeping well/in our bed/we’re tired/no alone time - anyway that’s not the issue today what I’m so lost and sad about is that everything seems to have been fine and going well and then this argument has come up and he’s speaking disrespectfully to me and talking about our relationship like it means nothing, saying he’s only staying for the kids essentially. And he says stuff in the heat of arguments he regrets and I usually rationalise it away but this time I don’t know what to do. I don’t feel like I can. I don’t feel like he really can love me if this is what he reverts to. And about something so stupid. And I’m just feeling so so sad. I don’t want to break up our family and have to lose all of that, because we have a lot of lovely times. We have a lot of plans. But I just feel really lost in the whole situation. I don’t want to destroy my DCs world, my poor kids, we don’t argue in front of them if we do have disagreements and we don’t argue often, there isn’t some toxic atmosphere all the time at home, they are happy girls and this would just be awful for them if we split up - but how can I actually trust him again? How can I trust now that he’s not secretly thinking ‘when the kids are old enough I’ll just leave’ all the time?

relationship counselling maybe?

I guess I could suggest it but I don’t think he would want to do it. He’d probably say that we should be able to work things out ourselves. I don’t even know what to say to him about it all, I just feel really upset. I feel like I always reach out and am the one to try and start to resolve things if we had argued and I just don’t want to this time. But equally I am the one who will suffer more if things aren’t resolved or fixed. If they even can be. He seems more able to compartmentalise and carry on if we’ve had an argument and prefers time to cool down and think about what he wants to say. I think I should probably leave it this time and not start off talking to him about it because honestly I really think I need him to be the one to start talking and apologise. Though even if he does I don’t know, I just feel like everything is so fake now.

So, basically, he picked a fight with you over something really trivial. Spoke to you like a piece of shit, belittled you and made you question yourself so he could then roll out the thing that’s really bugging him… lack of sex. Eurgh. His comment about you being ‘unhappy in the relationship’ is him projecting his annoyance about the perceived ‘lack of sex’ on to you. And the whole ‘I might not still be here when the kids are older’ is a thinly veiled threat that if you don’t start having sex with him more he’ll go and find someone who will. Of course he finds it easier to compartmentalise because he knows you don’t like conflict and will be the one that attempts to fix things to end the atmosphere and your own feelings of anxiety. He’s entitled, arrogant and manipulative. I’m so sorry for how sad you feel. I went through this sort of scenario repeatedly, with my ex, and it really is so distressing when you’re in the thick of it, particularly when the origin of the ‘argument’ was so petty! Big love

Yes I totally feel that the ‘you’re unhappy be honest with yourself’ is projection and it really annoys me when he’s said it in the past, I do call him out and say no you stick to saying how you feel about things don’t tell me how I feel - but even as I’m typing this I’m just thinking we’ve been through all this before! It’s so repetitive. It’s not like it’s every week or every month or even every year that this kind of argument happens or some of these points are raised but he has threatened leaving before years ago. And I do always cave first. I’m not going to this time. I don’t think he really meant what he said and we have been speaking when we need to this afternoon and evening in front of the kids but I’m not going to be the first one to bring up what’s been said and sort it all out this time, I just don’t want to. I think he needs to make an effort to resolve this, he’s really been out of order and as you say, manipulative.

I would not want to remain in such a marriage with such a manipulative man. This is not the relationship model you should be showing to them.

What do you want to teach your kids about relationships and what are they learning here?.
You would not want your dc as adults to be in such a relationship and it’s not good enough for you either. Your kids will pick up on all the vibes here, both spoken and unspoken .

Do not cave into him this time around. Better to be from a so called broken home than to remain in one because he has busted it. Get off the merry go around that he has you on.

I'm sorry you are going through this. I could never imagine saying anything like that to my wife. But she has said things like that to me in the past.

There was a huge amount going on and the end result almost ended our marriage.

We did go to counselling and it was good. Not to make the desicions for us but to cut through the bulls**t and leave nowhere to hide. Misconceptions my wife had about how I felt as she too would tell me during that time that I was unhappy, the counsellor took apart and gave us the ability to have a conversation about how we felt without guards.

There was a lot more to it than that that kept us together. And my wife did not want to do counseling as she thought they would make her look like the bad guy. They didnt.

It was an ultimatum and a plea that got us there. I said after 20 years its worth a few hours talking with a stranger at the least it might help us separate without drama.

Now my wife looks back on old home videos weve made and says to me about how horribly she spoke to me back then and how grateful she is that we figured out how to change.

Staying for the sake of the children is a statement that does not stand up to scrutiny when examined. Whose sake would he be staying for really because it would not be for the kids, more like his own ad it’s easier ( and you do the majority of the work anyway). Your man further uses this as a veiled threat to get you to toe the line. I would seriously consider divorcing him sooner rather than later if this is how he conducts himself.

If there is no trust, there is no relationship. Seek legal advice because knowledge is also power.

100% don’t cave and let him come to you. He’s caused a fuss over nothing and upset you and then thinks he can pretend it never happened. He knows you and knows that you will hate an atmosphere/bad blood and therefore fully anticipates you will reach out to resolve, thus absolving him of having to be accountable for his unnecessary nastiness. I’m absolutely sick to death of men behaving like this but I’m also conscious of the fact it’s not as simple as just getting rid. And I don’t think getting drilled about the fact you should leave someone, makes a woman feel any better. In some ways it further damages your self esteem because you feel a failure or weak for not wanting to end a relationship that everyone else thinks you should! You know when you know, in my experience, but if you can start to advocate for yourself in the mean time, that’s a step worth saluting! 🥰

Thankyou to everyone for all your comments, I’ve woken up earlier and read them all. He didn’t come and sleep in bed last night it seems, which has left me feeling more upset. I don’t think I can handle this if he’s now serious and decides our relationship is over. Our little family unit is so precious to me, I can’t bear thinking of us not being all together. All the plans we had and things to look forward to.

Why should you at all put up with this crap from him?. Bet he’s far more civil and otherwise nice to his work colleagues and people in the outside world,

Your kids and you are a family unit anyway. Family units come in all shapes and sizes. It’s his choice whether he chooses to participate civilly in family life or otherwise. His main concern is he and he alone.
You have not caused or otherwise driven him to act like this towards you, that’s on him.

You have a choice re him and your kids do not. Would you want them to be in a similar sort of relationship as adults?. No and you would want better for them. You deserve better for you too.

I did cave and spoke to him this morning. He apologised for swearing but continued to say he thought I was lying to myself and things were dead and over between us, I couldn’t handle this and so I’ve cried and basically pleaded. He’s gone to work and said we can talk about it all again tonight. Now I just feel so awful. I do love him but I ca see how people reading this will see his actions this morning as manipulative. He said he felt ugly and undesirable and very down about that side of things and also like we weren’t in love and I just liked the comfort and security of the relationship, I said that is love isn’t it too - and he asked when we’d had fun together recently and I brought up some of his days off the other wee when we’d had a good time watching films etc which he conceded had been good but he’s sounding really like things are done for him. Though if things aren’t then I don’t know, is it just really fake. Like he’s going to agree to try and improve things tonight, stay, and then just not really mean it. But I really don’t want our relationship to end and our family to break up, I feel like I won’t ever be truly happy again.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?. Was your childhood home a very shouty and or angry one?.

You are dealing with a master manipulator here and yet again you caved. That is your role amongst others here in this relationship and he has the vast amount of power and control within it. He over the years has put you exactly where he wants you.

And he did also cause a fuss over you showing him a back flip of all things to manufacture an argument against you.

He has today gone to work leaving you to mull and stew. He won't be thinking about any of this during his working day. Speaking to you like something he trod on also led to his main issue re you - sex and his perceived lack of. Abusive men are not nasty all the time because if they were no-one would want to be with them.

What do you want to teach your kids about relationships?. Again would you want your DC to be in such a relationship as adults?. You and the DC are a family unit and would continue to be so even if he was not in their day to day lives

He’s busy making things sound as bad as possible isn’t he - you do not have any fun together, you don’t love him, it’s “dead”.

I think this frame of mind can leave men very vulnerable to having an affair.

You should not plead with him. It will make it worse.

It is possible for some relationships to recover from this sort of situation but only if both of you work at it.

So you give him the choice: you won’t put up with being belittled and sworn at. It’s hardly conducive to feeling sexy if he is utterly horrible to you - he needs to concede that. If he doesn’t want the relationship he can walk away. If he wants it he has to work at it and that means you need to form a plan together to reconnect and find a way to make the marriage work.

Do you talk about sex?
Do you want to have more sex? Or is he right you do like the comfort and security and don’t really desire sexual or fancy him anymore?

Sex is the glue that keeps couples as a couple, it helps relieve stress, boosts your immune system and does make you feel loved and desired. It’s not something to ignore. But you need to be honest with yourself and him.

Many things are fixable but done are not. If your vision of the future and family unit is different to his it will break up eventually. It might be better to be completely honest and have an amicable split.

Most relationships have a sex lull when children are small, during stressful times and with illness, that’s understandable, but for the passion and desire to be replaced by slippers and a nice cup of tea long before it’s time is a completely different matter.

My advise is to lay all your cards on the table, open up, calmly, honestly and tell him you need him to do the same. That would be much healthier than playing games or second guessing what the other thinks or means.

Lots of points to think on from everyone here. After we spoke this morning I messaged him to say a few things that I didn’t feel I’d been able to say this morning and he messaged me back saying that he didn’t think he’d been a very good partner or father lately and he doesn’t really know why, and his first instinct is just always to leave the situation and he wants to talk more this evening.

@AttilaTheMeerkat I did grow up in a shouty household and there is coldness and arguing between my parents so they were not a good relationship model for me. My DH also grew up with a shouting and heavy handed father who he saw physically attack his mother. His parents are still together and have a good relationship now with each other but obviously he also didn’t have a good model as a child and he is very wary of any toxic relationship behaviours like jealousy etc and as he said, his instinct if he sees a relationship going wrong is to leave as he believes his mother should have left his father. So all of that is a bit complicated. I do think he can be manipulative but I know him and deep down he is not a dark hearted master manipulator without any feelings - I do think his behaviour, wrong as it was yesterday was driven by genuine feeling.

and yes @frozendaisyI would say that I do need to be honest with myself about our sex/intimacy issues. It does stem from me not really wanting to because I just I guess have a much lower drive than I used to - it’s not that we don’t have a good connection in that way, when we do have sex it’s genuinely good and I enjoy it, but with just everything going on in life after the kids are in bed I’m just tired, not in the mood, all the usual things people say - for his part he doesn’t come up to bed at the same time as me so opportunities there are lost and he’s less affectionate than he used to be so there’s less chance to lead up to it. It’s all the classic things really. We’ve had these conversations before re our sex life and it improves for a time but at the end of the day I think I am the one who puts less effort into keeping it alive than I should. I frustrate myself because I know it’s essential for our connection, I do enjoy it, I enjoy being close to him physically - I just find it really difficult to keep it going regularly. And now we’re here and I feel like a big part of it is my fault.

And @TheOneAndOnlyMumsterThankyou for your comments too. I do want the relationship to recover and know we need to work at it, I just want him to say that he actually wants it to recover as well I guess. Instead of feeling like he’s been persuaded by me. But I guess I’ve already messed that up by talking to him first about it anyway.

If you want to stay in your marriage, you need to know if he does.
If you both do, you need marriage counselling.
You don’t sound very happy, and your H sounds emotionally manipulative.
My DP can be emotionally manipulative because that’s what his Mum taught him to say and do to “win”. So when he’s doing that I just say “okay Sharon” which is a reminder to him that he’s behaving how his Mum does (we’re no contact with her now).
He’s got significantly better and these moments happen so infrequently now but that’s only because I’m strong minded and won’t put up with his bullshit.
If you keep succumbing to his manipulation, he will never change and your happiness will utterly deteriorate.

I don't think you have messed things up, you did not play stupid games like him, making big declarations, manipulating and controlling, punishing you by not coming to bed. Its all very pathetic and immature. You were more mature. You are more mature.

but I do think it is time for you to be clear with him about how this pattern has to change and these big sweeping statements and declarations need to stop. He is not a child, he can and should articulate what he needs to you. Saying 'I'm leaving because you are not a mind reader who can work out without me saying it that you are not doing what I want' instead of saying 'I am unhappy can we work on it' is childish.

Don't give him an out because he is a man and not used to this. Let him know it is time to step up and grow up.

Maybe there is fault with both sides here and obviously we're only hearing one side of the story.

The husband is behaving like an arse but maybe the resentment over the sexual side of the relationship has been building for a long time and has now exploded.

What age are your kids and how much has your sex life changed and is it something you are able and willing to discuss with him?

Our kids are 7 and 4, so we are past the baby stage but the youngest does sleep in our bed a lot. And lately they have both been through a phase of not going down to sleep very easily, getting up a lot and coming downstairs etc. but there is definitely opportunity for us to have sex which has been missed as well, we are off in the day together at some point most weeks when the kids are at school and they aren’t always up late/in our bed.

I can and have talked to him about our sex life. Things that would make a difference to me is just more affection. But it definitely isn’t all him, I know I have a much lower sex drive than pre kids. And I know we really need to sort this aspect out of our relationship too.

I just feel like I have no way of knowing what is ‘normal’. And I know that there is no real answer to that. Actions speak louder than words I suppose in a lot of ways. I do love him though, there’s just so much happening in life I feel exhausted by it all. I’m not even like unhappy exhausted, but there’s just so much to do and think about. It’s hard to even contemplate at the end of the day wanting to have sex, I just feel overwhelmed with it all. I would say since our second child we have had sex usually around once a month, sometimes more, sometimes less. We haven’t had sex for the last three months but I have wanted to at times and then we haven’t been able to because of illness/period/child in bed or awake etc I know that’s excuses but they are also true!

@glostghost there is no “normal” sone couples are happy having sex once a month, some twice a day, some have open relationships or go swinging or watch each other masterbate or turn a blind eye to flings.

Honest communication without blame or obligation is the key to moving forward with your physical relationship to see if what you want is what you both want and need.

Life isn’t perfect social media images, it’s boring, hard, repetitive and when you have children it is full of responsibility. But it can be full of fun, love, quickies at lunchtime.

If you both want to stay together, move forward, ride into the sunset with a family that stays together and is happy or a better word content, you need to talk, just talk. I can say anything I need to my H because I know he wants to be here with me with us and that is because we have talked when the kids were smaller and sex and affection had subsided due to energy and confidence and because it just felt a bit odd. We talked and hit the hay like spring bunnies as a reset and didn’t look back. But it took an element of being honest that was I thought a gamble. It was a gamble that totally paid off and it might not have I was ready for either outcome.

Thankyou@frozendaisy- we have talked pretty honestly about sex before but more in terms of why it’s not happening not really what we want and we definitely didn’t manage to make it stick the changes that we said we wanted to see, so I just don’t know. Maybe another talk but I just feel like I am going to have to really make all this sexual effort. It just makes me feel tired and defeated already. I feel very low now. I just feel like what does any of it all mean, one minute I’m just getting on with life, happy with little things and feeling content and now I just feel like it was all just fake and will require so much work to make it work, or the alternative is my family splitting up and that would just be the end of me really. I don’t get on well with my parents and I don’t want them in my life really, I have a sister but she doesn’t live near, without my own little family I just don’t see the point of anything. I’ve obviously made the wrong choice of partner and it’s all just gone to shit. My children are incredible and wonderful, clever and kind and loving and they deserve better.

I think you are both overreacting probably because you are both tired and both feeling unheard and unloved in the way you both want which seems to be quite different and that is not unusual.

Would both of you be willing to try couples therapy to try and find a different/better way of communicating with each other?

Thankyou @PinkSheepCriesmaybe I do need a reality check. I’ve just had a nice (cold) walk with the DC and they’ve cheered me up a lot and we’ve had fun and laughs. I am tired and feeling shaky emotionally which just isn’t helping. Re reading what I wrote previously as well of course I know that the DC are my family and are going nowhere it’s just I love us all as a family unit and would miss that in a devastating way. But I’m just getting too far ahead with all this catastrophising anyway, I need to talk properly to DH obviously. We are both quite dramatic people and while sometimes that is fun and positive sometimes it does result in too much drama and overreaction.