Can you have a happy relationship without trust?

[Jellybeans00]

In the past, my partner stole from the joint account to buy drugs. He’s lied multiple times about taking drugs and smoking when he promised not to. We moved away from family and friends with 2 kids. He promised this would be a new start with no lies. I caught him smoking after this and said if he lies again that is it and offered him to come to me if he was struggling as I know addiction is hard. But it was him who said he wanted to quit and promised this, although he is aware I didn’t like it. Last week I finally started to feel safe again and told him this. Yesterday I found cigarettes, confronted him that I thought he was smoking again and he barefaced lied that he would never do that to me and the kids. He then admitted it when showed the evidence. It broke my heart. It’s not the smoking - it’s the sneaking around, lies and betrayal. He can lie so convincingly to my face that I don’t think I can trust him ever again.

Is it over? Or can the relationship be saved?

No. If there is no trust there is no relationship.

Why would you want to save this anyway given what he is like?. Staying together for the supposed sake of the kids does them no favours either.

I dont think its is possible to have a happy relationship without trust, no.

It has to be over because you set your boundary, told him the sanction and he did it anyway.

You will never trust him again and he will know if you stay that he can do anything he likes.

No.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you. The reason to save is because he is a great dad and we genuinely have a good time together and get along really well. He is a good person, a hard worker, and tries to help everyone he meets. He is dependable and puts in a lot effort every day. He’s had some issues in the past and doesn’t know how to deal with stress so he resorts to smoking. Aside from this trust issue, everything else is good. It’s such a shame and I am devastated. I just don’t know how to get past this if we tried to make it work, but terrified it would happen again 6 months down the line. But I also can’t imagine my life without him.

@TheMorgenmuffel @mindutopia @Lmnop22 I fear what you’re saying is true - I just don’t feel strong enough to go through with it. I’m so upset by the choice that he made. It really has broke me heart. I didn’t want it to end

Has he tried a vape to help giving up smoking?
Just telling him to not smoke won’t work so he’s lying to you as he knows you’ve forbidden it.
You are of course totally within your rights to not like something and not want to be with someone who smokes but he obviously does.

He is not a great dad if he treats you and in turn your kids like this.

Women in poor relationships often write the good dad comment when they can think of nothing else positive to write about their man. If you let him
back into your life he will never take you seriously as bf will use that to do what he likes.

He’s already had more than enough chances from you and surely stealing from you was the end of this relationship anyway.

He can continue to be a father to his children if he chooses to when you are apart from each other.

If he’s now lying to your face about smoking what else could and will he lie about?. Once the trust is gone it never properly returns and if there is no trust there is no relationship.

@whattheysay he’s given up months at a time, but when a stressful event creeps in he falls back in to it. The way he saw it initially was that it wasn’t that bad and ending it over cigarettes was extreme - but I’ve had to explain it’s not the smoking, it’s the betrayal. Which he says he understands but obviously still did it. He has no answers

@AttilaTheMeerkat I understand. I have been thinking those thoughts too. I just don’t know what to believe in my own head any more and looking for perspective. I completely agree you need trust in a relationship. I just feel in a rock and a hard place as I don’t want it to end. I’m truly devastated that this has happened and it’s going to blow all our lives up. It’s just heartbreaking

I was going to reply that it depends on exactly what your trust is, and how it's framed. For instance, you could agree that smoking would never interfere with family life - perhaps he could smoke outside the house (provided he didn't end up staying out for hours) and never around the children.

I think it would be difficult to walk this back to a trusted compromise in your situation, though. If he's a person who always has to 'get away' with something extra, you'd be very unwise to fully trust any undertaking he makes. Some people would make the totalitarian demand but expect the compromise, and be happy with that. I'm not sure you're one of those people.

I don’t think it’s reasonable to demand he doesn’t smoke, it’s legal for an adult to smoke, and he clearly doesn’t intend to stop 🤷‍♀️ if that’s a dealbreaker for you, it’s a dealbreaker but you can’t reasonably insist he doesn’t smoke. I would be more concerned about the money from the joint account going on drugs tbh.

No

He’s not a good man and he’s not dependable or a great dad, he’s a lying thief who treats you like a mug because there’s no consequences to his shitty behaviour

No. You can never feel safe or relaxed with someone you can’t trust, and those things are essential for a happy relationship.

No. It's not the smoking, it's the lack of honesty. If he can lie about this, what else is he prepared to lie about? It shows a lack of respect for you and the children, poor decision making and an inability to change.

He knew what the consequences were, but he still did it. There are many ways of dealing with stress, asking for help, knowing where you stood on the smoking issue, would have been a good place to start.

The stealing from the joint account to buy drugs would’ve ended it for me. The smoking though not serious shows he’s lied about that too. Can you be with a man who lies and you don’t trust? I couldn’t.

As an ex smoker, you can’t force someone to give up by being angry about it, they have to want to and be in the right frame of mind to do it. It’s not as easy as just stopping because someone told you to. He’s hiding them from you because of your reactions.

@OriginalUsername2 yeah I totally agree. I come from a family of smokers. I didn’t ask him to quit. I expressed I really didn’t like it and that was his response, probably to please me. Although, he seems to say he wants to give up for himself for health reasons but he really struggles with it.

Anyway, it’s not really about the smoking, it’s the lying. I asked him to come to me when he was struggling and thinking of going back to smoking rather than lying and doing it behind my back.

I’m just not sure if is OTT for ending it over this when addiction is a complicated thing and maybe I’m partly to blame for my adverse reaction against it but at the same time lying isn’t acceptable. Is it worth blowing up a 10 year relationship with kids about it? But knowing trust is integral to a relationship. This is so hard

@unsync you’ve hit the nail on the head. All of what you said is true. He does make really poor decisions and has shown he’s not changing.

I feel sorry for him because he obviously was never taught how to manage stress and how to deal with problems. He is an innocent lost soul in a way as I truly believe he doesn’t mean to hurt anyone but soothing himself through smoking was the only way he’s ever known how.

It’s a sad situation. His heart is in the right place - I know that. And then I swing to the thought of every relationship has its problems. No relationship is perfect. And it is only this thing that is wrong with ours. But yes Trust is a biggie, but I do believe he would never be unfaithful

@GarlicBound thanks for your reply. It’s tricky - he said he was the one who wanted to give up and made the promise, which I took for his word. He didn’t want to pursue the idea of continuing smoking - I think he wants to give up but can’t. But he also said he’s all or nothing, and honestly he can’t afford it.

I’ve not thought about if he is a person who always has to 'get away' with something extra; I’m not sure if it is that, which is why he’s not changed, or it’s addiction.

I know on face value and based on these facts it seems stupid to give another chance, but when everything else works is it a hump in the road and worth fighting for? Not everything is so clearly black and white in these things. He does absolutely everything for the family in terms of chores and kids (while I work - it’s just the situation at the moment) and he is about to start a new career that he is doubting himself on and worries it won’t work - it seems to have got too much for him

With anything else - drugs, cheating, gambling, etc. I’d say yes. They destroy lives. But smoking cigarettes is a real bastard to stop when it’s so socially acceptable and many people get alway with it health wise, or at least do until decades later 😬

It took me many, many attempts and relapses, despite really wanting to be a non-smoker and do the whole clean living thing desperately and I’m really not a bad person! I grew up with my friends and family all smoking too. There are always smokers at work. It’s really hard.

The ability for me to give up seemed to be a moment in time that would come around once in a blue moon and I was lucky to sort of hook onto it and hold on if that makes any sense. If I were to have one puff now, that would be it, I’d be back on them for years. I just know it.

But if all else is genuinely well, what I would do in your position is drop the control over this and let it be his personal demon to slay in his own time without added pressure.

My boundaries would be never in front of me and the kids or inside the house. And I wouldn’t want to smell it, so would ask him to brush his teeth afterwards. And no more lying about anything at all - an honesty pact.

@Jellybeans00 You can't fix someone, unfortunately - they have to realise (and want) it for themselves. Only you can decide if you want to live this way. Think if you will still want this life five, ten or twenty years on, or do you have a different picture of how you want your life to be?

There's no relationship without trust.

Also don't give ultimatums if you're not willing to follow through with them.

No. Without trust you have nothing.

You say he's dependable, but he isn't. He's the opposite. Because he doesn't do what he says. He lies. So you can't depend on anything he says.

You know for a fact that he lies to you. Which means that you don't know when he's lying and when he's telling the truth. It means when he commits to something / makes a promise, he may later change his mind and go back on it. It means you will never feel totally safe with him. You will always be waiting for the next lie to come to light. You won't take his word as meaning anything. What else is he lying about? Once he's happy with the principle of lying to you, he could be lying about anything. And he can protest or say it's unfair if you don't believe something he says - but he's literally proved to you that you can't trust him to be honest with you.