Overbearing SIL - family rift

[wuzawuz]

Regular poster with NC as details could be outing. Sorry for length, didn't want a drip feed.

I say SIL but it's my DH's brother's gf of 5-6 years - they don't live together, not married, no children.

DH's older brother is 42 and has always lived at home with their mum. Never had a full time or permanent job and spends all his time in his room, but no one seems to know doing what. Apparently a programmer but he's never worked as one and doesn't have a portfolio past the age of 25. I work in Tech and offered to get him a job at my company but he wasn't interested. He and DH don't get on as brother doesn't contribute to rent, bills, do any chores around the house - and when DH lived at home, he and younger brother had to cover his rent. His mum doesn't think he's on the spectrum and doesn't seem to display any obvious signs, is also physically healthy. He could of course be high functioning (don't want to armchair diagnose or cause offence, just to show there isn't anything stopping him working esp as we are in London with lots of jobs). My sense is he's just not incentivised to work as mum does everything for him, and dad and stepmum give him money when he needs it.

He's had a gf for 5-6 years though only mentioned her/introduced her 3 years in. She too lives with her parents a 60 min drive away (he doesn't drive so she travels to him mostly). It's an odd relationship as they don't see each other much, she only recently started staying over when she did visit, she does holidays alone as he doesn't like travel. But she's keen to get married as also 42 and keeps expressing her frustrations every time we see her that he isn't proposing.

She eventually bought a house in her suburb as got fed up of waiting and expects him to move in, contribute to the mortgage and learn to drive. We all know he will never do any of this (he's indicated as much) and is stringing her along though i'm not sure why she's still with him. It's been years of zero progress.

None of this concerned me as I only met her for the first time last year at a big family event and we aren't close to the brother, so didn't anticipate seeing her much. This is when she shared all their relationship issues - in front of him which was very awkward. However, I'm now pregnant and his mum is trying to create more of a family atmosphere by inviting DH and I over for meals regularly. The brother is always there of course and now so is the gf. And she takes out her frustrations with the relationship on me by haranguing me non-stop every time we are together. I can't open my mouth without her either contradicting, lecturing, patronising or arguing with me - on things that don't concern her at all e.g what my life was like in my home country (she's never lived there), my pregnancy, raising a child and mat leave (she has no kids), how my parents manage their finances when my dad passed (??!), my career (I'm 4 levels more sr than her in same career). She also practically yelled at me because i don't drive which really felt like she was yelling at her bf (we live in London with excellent public transport unlike her and won't move). I suspect a combination of being triggered by my pregnancy and also the bf's lack of commitment.

She only directs this at me and her bf of course says and does nothing, just leaves the room when it gets strained. DH and MIL are both quiet, non confrontational people which doesn't help so she does most of the talking. I'm a direct person and have no objection snapping back (and have tried) but also don't want to feed the drama as looks like she's spoiling for a fight with me. However, MIL still insists on having these meals and inviting other relatives as well and DH and I dread them. I also don't want her anywhere near my baby when he's here - which is the real issue as it would mean never going to MIL's house and inviting her to ours instead. Which would upset MIL as she likes hosting and it isn't as easy for her to travel as it is us.

I suggested to DH he have an honest convo with his mum about why we don't enjoy these gatherings and may decline invites, but he is worried that it's her house and brother lives there so not inviting the gf or intervening puts her in a difficult position. To me this is a result of the brother letting his relationship drama spill into our lives and he should be managing it - but MIL doesn't like challenging him. Does anyone have a way to deal with this without it causing a rift?

What a big pain! Would it be possible to start by going less often or staying for less long? I absolutely don’t think you should have to put up with her behaviour but I do think your husband has a point about your mother-in-law being stuck in the middle.

Could mother-in-law be persuaded into lunch instead after which you have to leave fairly promptly because you’ve got other things to deal with your weekend?

Or could you basically agree between you and your husband that sometimes he will go on his own, sometimes you will both go and sometimes you will both decline. It’s perfectly reasonable not to be available for every date.

It is worth pre-warning mother-in-law that when you’ve got a new baby “obviously” you won’t be up for as much travelling and mother-in-law should visit you on her own more often. Perhaps your husband could facilitate her to do that?

I’m sorry. I don’t think there is a way to avoid a rift. It sounds intolerable for you but your DH would rather you endure it than risk upsetting MIL. I would just stop or really reduce the visits and tell MIL why. I know it’s a pain for her to visit you but it’s either this or keep enduring these painful dinners.

maybe BIL and SIL will split up?? It doesn’t sound like either of them get much from the relationship!!

Invite MIL to lunches at yours. Decline invites at MILs on the occasions the GF will be there.

If MIL asks why simply tell her that the GF has been extremely rude to you on many occasions, and you’re not obligated to tolerate that. If DH wants to still go then let him.

If they don't see each other much can't you just go when she's not there? I can see it would be difficult if she was living there but she isn't.

This.

Just refuse to go ( and it might not be a bad idea, anyway, to establish that you are not theirs to summon when they wish before the baby arrives).

Tell MIL you are fed up of the GF having a go at you all the time. Tell your DH the same - and ask him why he doesn't jump to deflect her attacks. If he wants you to continue with these painful dinners, the least he can do is agree to intervene when she starts. If he can't agree to that, how does he think he's gonna be able to set and maintain boundaries ( with MIL and GF) once the baby arrives?

Typo fixes

This is another situation which to you, inside it, feels really complicated but to an outsider has obvious possible solutions:

— stop going - and put the onus of distress caused by that on the people causing the problem, which is SIL, MIL, BIL. You, as the recipient of the vitriol minding your own business are the least at fault and would be the only person doing the sane, rational thing
— if you insist on going, tell SIL to stop whatever offensive thing she’s doing as soon as she starts doing it, and let everyone sit with the discomfort she has caused by haranguing you. Again, this is nothing to do with you, the guilt isn’t yours. Be calm and her craziness will be apparent to everyone present.

It’s a bit like when a wife is cheated on and then feels guilty for breaking up the family by asking for a divorce. No, the cheating husband owns that guilt, he’s the only one who did the wrong thing. It’s never wrong to refuse to be treated poorly, and you should never feel guilty for doing so.

Refuse to go. Easily solved.

Does your husband sit there silently while she has a go at you? Tell him to grow some balls and stand up for you. Otherwise when the baby's here you can bet she'll be full of opinions. You and him need to present a united front and not allow her to dominate these dinners.

OMG this sounds EXACTLY LIKE the situation I was in a few years ago - with my BIL and awful potential SIL as well! He was also a non-starter at the time, and she was desperate for marriage and babies. It was clear to anyone he didn’t want either!!

She used to be the ‘expert’ on everything and turned every conversation back to herself. She was so imposing on my husband’s lovely and gentle non-conventional family, and ruined gatherings for us for a long time. We used to move from room to room to avoid her.

Thankfully he eventually dumped her.

I really empathise!!

I think just what PP’s have said - if she hadn’t been sent on her merry way, I strongly suspect we would have just engineered seeing family without her, and only met up when it was completely unavoidable.

She too would have been allowed NOWHERE near my son. She once got caught trying to give prosecco to my baby nephew at a wedding, despite being the leading expert on children.

Best of luck!

Non-confrontational I should say - not nonconventional. They’re as traditional as they come. 🤣

I can't open my mouth without her either contradicting, lecturing, patronising or arguing with me.

She only directs this at me and her bf of course says and does nothing, just leaves the room when it gets strained. DH and MIL are both quiet, non confrontational people which doesn't help so she does most of the talking.

What does your H do when she starts up? Does he stand up for you? Or does he sit there and leave it to you to have to deal with it whilst he stays silent?

I suggested to DH he have an honest convo with his mum about why we don't enjoy these gatherings and may decline invites, but he is worried that it's her house and brother lives there so not inviting the gf or intervening puts her in a difficult position.

If your H does not want to have a conversation with his Mum about this, then what other course of action is he suggesting? Or is his expectation that you have to carry on going there? If it's the latter, why is it more important to him that he doesn't upset his Mum, than to prevent his pregnant wife from being hectored and bullied and yelled at?

I suggested to DH he have an honest convo with his mum about why we don't enjoy these gatherings and may decline invites, but he is worried that it's her house and brother lives there so not inviting the gf or intervening puts her in a difficult position.

But as the host, it is her job to manage the dynamic so that one guest [you] is not being unreasonably harassed and harangued.
It is your husband's job to have this conversation with his mother and preferably with his brother too as to his GF's treatment of you.
If neither of them are prepared to speak to SIL, the simple answer is not to invite her on days you are coming.

DH needs to have this convo and make it clear that you will regretfully have to leave [which will cause a row undoubtedly] or not come at all.

If you like MIL and enjoy her company I would simply start to shift so she comes to yours on a solo basis at least on every other occasion. I'd also set expectation that Christmas's will be spent as a nuclear family and not with BIL and SIL.

If none of them are going to grow a spine and stick up for you then they can’t complain at you taking action yourself and not attending. They can’t expect you to just unconditionally take shit just because they will.

I was in a situation similar to this and I ended up just going 'I dont know how you out up with it, its obvious he isnt going to move out and you'd deserve better than that' and then whenever it came up id just repeat it. She eventually stopped and then left him within the year.
Obviously she had been fed up for a while but I think someone else saying it out loud is what she needed to be honest, as she didnt have a lot of friends and her mum basically encouraged her hanging on, but equally im not going to be endlessly patient, if someone is rude to me 20 times a meeting, every meeting, they can cope with me being 'rude' back a few times.

So your H is quite happy to throw you under the bus. What a wet lettuce.

Honestly, this sounds really draining, and it’s completely fair to want some peace, especially with a baby on the way. One way to handle it without creating a family drama is to focus on your boundaries rather than trying to change her or your MIL’s household. That could mean going less often, leaving early, or keeping conversations brief and neutral when she starts in, and physically removing yourself if needed. DH can gently frame it to his mum as pregnancy tiredness or needing calmer visits, rather than as criticism of her or his brother’s girlfriend something like, “Big gatherings are a lot for us right now, we might catch up in smaller ways.” You’re also allowed to quietly set limits in the moment, saying things like, “I’m not discussing that,” without escalating. Long term, it’s reasonable to plan that once the baby arrives, visits happen at your place or in smaller, calmer settings. You can’t fix their drama, but you can protect your own peace.

Op I don’t understand why it is your mil’s issue to sort out! I know she is allowing her son to live there and is indulging him but I think it’s up to your dh to speak to his brother and ask him to have a word with his gf surely?

Mum’s can’t favour one son over the other so she won’t act. She is trying to get you all together.

It’s up to your dh to resolve this, and if he won’t, tell him you will speak to his brother and gf and it won’t be pleasant!

Non committal mmm noises if she says these things?
or
“Im not prepared to discuss this. “
If she continues you leave the room, saying ‘I am not prepared to discuss this with you’
I have a younger sister who is very much like this. Im sorry it’s very hard. My approach now when she goes on and on and on is to explain I am leaving them room but I am not upset with you. I remain neutral and calm and leave the room. I return after a few minutes. If she restarts I leave the room again. If it happens a third time I go to a room and read a book, have a shower etc. I appreciate you can’t do that at MIL but maybe there is something else you can do. If you want to keep visiting.
Ideally you DH will step up a bit and support you. If he doesn’t then you will likely need to redid visits and if MIL then chooses not to come visit you then that is her choice.

It does put your MIL in the middle, but she sounds like a lovely caring person and she is entitled to understand how you feel. It would be awful for her if you just stopped coming all the time without explaining why. Your DH should have a calm but honest conversation with her about to and together try to find alternatives - she comes to you more often, GF isn’t invited to all the events you come to, MIL helps shut down poor behaviour by GF, etc. At the end of the day MIL may have to make a choice, or more likely lots of little choices, but let her choose - she will almost certainly choose her new GC over the GF.

I don't agree that the MIL is in a difficult place. She is allowing SIL to have a go at OP who is in her house at her invitation. All this 'I don't like confrontation', nor do a majority of people! Calmly tell her why you will no longer be attending when SIL is there.

This. Life is too short to put up with this shit, and your DH who should be dealing with it/standing up for you, is a wet lettuce. Just stop going, he can go if he wants.

Once baby arrives, you could invite his parents to yours and decline visiting them whenever you know she will be there?

(Why is she always there anyway, what about the house she bought?)

Invite MIL to yours and on days out or for coffee and cake.

If you really can’t rely on your DH to have your back on this one, and just refusing to attend would make you the bad guy. I think the approach outlined by SummerInSun might be the best way forward.

MiL might talk to you about it but jeez. This family dynamic is really messed up and yes MiL is enabling it so I wouldn’t bet on her taking any action.

for sure get it sorted before your baby comes.

I wouldn't be worried about causing a rift - DHs brother's girlfriend is the one causing it. I would just not go there if she's there. Have an honest conversation with your MIL and say that while you love to see her, you're not prepared to be put in the position of having to defend yourself against this woman's verbal assaults. Make sure she knows you'll happily have MIL visit when you have the baby or will visit MIL when brother's girlfriend is not there. It doesn't have to be a big drama, just an adult conversation. If others choose to create a big drama, it's not your problem. Stay calm, firm and resolute about what you will and won't do.