Overbearing SIL - family rift

[wuzawuz]

Regular poster with NC as details could be outing. Sorry for length, didn't want a drip feed.

I say SIL but it's my DH's brother's gf of 5-6 years - they don't live together, not married, no children.

DH's older brother is 42 and has always lived at home with their mum. Never had a full time or permanent job and spends all his time in his room, but no one seems to know doing what. Apparently a programmer but he's never worked as one and doesn't have a portfolio past the age of 25. I work in Tech and offered to get him a job at my company but he wasn't interested. He and DH don't get on as brother doesn't contribute to rent, bills, do any chores around the house - and when DH lived at home, he and younger brother had to cover his rent. His mum doesn't think he's on the spectrum and doesn't seem to display any obvious signs, is also physically healthy. He could of course be high functioning (don't want to armchair diagnose or cause offence, just to show there isn't anything stopping him working esp as we are in London with lots of jobs). My sense is he's just not incentivised to work as mum does everything for him, and dad and stepmum give him money when he needs it.

He's had a gf for 5-6 years though only mentioned her/introduced her 3 years in. She too lives with her parents a 60 min drive away (he doesn't drive so she travels to him mostly). It's an odd relationship as they don't see each other much, she only recently started staying over when she did visit, she does holidays alone as he doesn't like travel. But she's keen to get married as also 42 and keeps expressing her frustrations every time we see her that he isn't proposing.

She eventually bought a house in her suburb as got fed up of waiting and expects him to move in, contribute to the mortgage and learn to drive. We all know he will never do any of this (he's indicated as much) and is stringing her along though i'm not sure why she's still with him. It's been years of zero progress.

None of this concerned me as I only met her for the first time last year at a big family event and we aren't close to the brother, so didn't anticipate seeing her much. This is when she shared all their relationship issues - in front of him which was very awkward. However, I'm now pregnant and his mum is trying to create more of a family atmosphere by inviting DH and I over for meals regularly. The brother is always there of course and now so is the gf. And she takes out her frustrations with the relationship on me by haranguing me non-stop every time we are together. I can't open my mouth without her either contradicting, lecturing, patronising or arguing with me - on things that don't concern her at all e.g what my life was like in my home country (she's never lived there), my pregnancy, raising a child and mat leave (she has no kids), how my parents manage their finances when my dad passed (??!), my career (I'm 4 levels more sr than her in same career). She also practically yelled at me because i don't drive which really felt like she was yelling at her bf (we live in London with excellent public transport unlike her and won't move). I suspect a combination of being triggered by my pregnancy and also the bf's lack of commitment.

She only directs this at me and her bf of course says and does nothing, just leaves the room when it gets strained. DH and MIL are both quiet, non confrontational people which doesn't help so she does most of the talking. I'm a direct person and have no objection snapping back (and have tried) but also don't want to feed the drama as looks like she's spoiling for a fight with me. However, MIL still insists on having these meals and inviting other relatives as well and DH and I dread them. I also don't want her anywhere near my baby when he's here - which is the real issue as it would mean never going to MIL's house and inviting her to ours instead. Which would upset MIL as she likes hosting and it isn't as easy for her to travel as it is us.

I suggested to DH he have an honest convo with his mum about why we don't enjoy these gatherings and may decline invites, but he is worried that it's her house and brother lives there so not inviting the gf or intervening puts her in a difficult position. To me this is a result of the brother letting his relationship drama spill into our lives and he should be managing it - but MIL doesn't like challenging him. Does anyone have a way to deal with this without it causing a rift?

I agree with this. And please remember OP that nobody gets to insist you do anything - you have a right to decide where you go and what you do.

If you do want to keep going then the next time she pipes up I’d put her on the spot and ask her straight up why she is trying to pick a fight with you/what her problem is. Don’t sit there quietly to keep the peace in someone else’s family: you’re not their punching bag.

DHs brothers gf has forward caused a rift already.

Do not set yourself on fire to keep other people warm. Someone has to stand up for themselves and you should not be used as a buffer.

This. When anything like it comes up just say out loud: "oh, he will never move out of here". "But he has no interest in getting a job". "Oh, he'll not learn to drive". "I really don't know how you put up with it".
Every time.
I think I'd smilingly push back on the other things too, if she's on at you.
And I agree with pp that you don't have to go there for these meals, and that mil and DH should have your back at the very least..

just be too busy to visit if you don’t want to.

honestly you sound dramatic by complaining to your DH and asking him to get MIL involved because you, an adult, dislike another adult.

besides, are you sure she isnt just annoying and socially awkward, rather than out to get you?

Just say ‘why would I be interested in your opinion? I feel a bit sorry for you, so I have been trying to be nice, that’s all, sorry if you misinterpreted it’.

This! I don’t think it needs to be a big drama, it is perfectly obvious to everyone there how rude BILs girlfriend is by your account so it shouldn’t be surprising. I wouldn’t be wasting any precious moments of life with such draining company.

Since your DH is a wet lettuce you will have to talk to Mil yourself and explain that you would be happy to see her but not the Sil since she's so argumentative. If that means she will come to yours then so be it but set clear boundaries right now. I think the parents have done a poor job keeping their son at home and not expecting him to pay his way nor help out but that's something else.

Mil doesn't get to dictate your time. Nip this shit in the bud or you will be expected to share your dc with them by visiting even more often as they haven't got a baby... Imagine either of them sat while you bf....

I’m yet another poster who can’t understand why this is MIL problem to sort rather than your husband’s?! Tell her straight yourself and have him back you up!! He sounds so wet…

Thanks so much for the responses, lots of good suggestions. Will attempt to answer some questions asked.

1. Gf's visits are more frequent because brother/MIL invite her to these meals/gatherings now which have increased. Also she sees these as an opportunity to force the commitment topic with his family. MIL only started hosting regular meets once she found out i was pregnant and wants to have the big family vibe for GC. They are a VERY unsocial family otherwise - we all used to do Xmas separately until last year despite everyone living close by, and would individually meet up with MIL.

2. Us just declining invites is probably the best thing as we can meet MIL alone when gf is not there (as we've done previously). Just means ruining her notion of big, happy family and not seeing other relatives who attend the gatherings (who we don't often see). E.g MIL has organised a meal with an uncle that DH hasn't seen for over a year and likes - so we do want to attend but gf is going to be present and seems unfair that we miss out because of her. Maybe we stay for the meal only and I deflect questions and get the others to speak as suggested.

3. Some good suggestions on how DH can broach this with MIL as I don't want her to think the worst if not attending, and she could also step in to manage the convo when it goes Pete Tong. It's another issue that he doesn't like to upset his mum but has no problem upsetting me! He will eventually (reluctantly) do it if I insist and is much better with this now than previously. I think he's worried his mum may choose his brother's comfort over his if he did say something which would be devastating for him (she's done it before) but surely knowing the reality is better than denial. Also I can't see his mum missing out a chance to see her GC but who knows..she is very codependent with the brother.

4. DH doesn't get on with his brother (no arguments or hostility, they have no contact outside of bday/xmas cards, DH dislikes his laziness) so if I don't go he doesn't like going alone unless it's just his mum. Tbf he has suggested not going as an option but of course will have to explain why when we initially accepted before knowing the gf is coming. We only find out she's coming after we've accepted!! This is also why MIL has to be involved in refereeing as they've been like this since children - but stay civil at the gatherings so MIL can have the family together.

5. I am cross with DH for not doing more at the time to diffuse the situation and he has agreed to step in when it gets strained...I'll believe it when I see it!

6. Am not sure brother and gf will end anytime soon. Gf did break up with him for a bit when he wasn't proposing and went AWOL when her dad died (as found her needy ...!) but they got back and it's been 18 months with nothing. Brother has a great arrangement with her so definitely won't end it himself.

7. MIL has offered to come to us when baby is here but will see whether that changes. We just got a car for emergencies and it's a 20 min drive for us (DH drives and I'm learning) but she doesn't drive so it's a 1.5 journey on public transport for her. She would still expect us to invite brother along for things like baby's birthday, or attend her own bday/xmas or boxing day etc. So that will require a difficult convo as we don't want the gf in our house - she has already mentioned meeting baby...No chance!

Big bulky isofix car seat..
Dh collects mil if it's not far by your car...
Sadly no space for bil +gf...
Dh drops mil back.
After all you will be post partum /bf /shattered to go visit her /them.

MIL has always been the go between for DH and brother since they were kids. She is very codependent with brother; DH has given up trying to intervene as it's futile and doesn't want to get pulled into picking up his brother's slack at home. I suspect when they were younger her favouritism of older brother created this dynamic. Older brother doesn't listen to anyone but his mum (sometimes) in any case.

MIL and I get on fine but she is a bit weird about anyone saying something that reflects badly on the brother - hence why i leave it to DH to mention to his mum who can then manage it with the brother.

You don't want to cause a rift, but there already is one and it is not of your making.

How do you respond when she talks to you like this?

MIL, as you have probably noticed. Sally is incredibly rude to me and neither DH or DB say anything, so I think I will bow out of family dinners if she is going to be there for now. DH can still go if he wants to. You are very welcome to come to ours or we can meet halfway somewhere, or we will happily come for meals Sally isn't invited'.

Done.

She sees you as direct competition to herself as 'favourite daughter-in-law'. So not going round your MIL's house will only be playing into her hands.

Have you thought about standing up to this woman? Tell her you’re really not interested in her views, any comments she wants to offer, just say, no thanks I’m done talking about this/ being lectured by someone with no understanding/business in my affaires

I think you actually have a DH problem. Why is he not defending you or stopping the SIL from verbally attacking you?

Whie I have not had this situation with a direct or indirect family member, I HAVE had it with friends of my sister's and also my sister had it with a previous GF's sister of our brother. SO it's a bit different becuase in both situations it's not like there's constant need for family events.

BUT.... I agree with a PP who said that you need to push back and just sit with any resulting awkwardness. It's on her, NOT on you. Firm tone (not shouting or aggressive) and firm statement, "Mary, Honestly, I don't understand why you're hounding me about my pregnancy/my parent's finances/ my career. Please stop."

In my case, this friend of my sister's was OBSESSED with insisting that I needed to take more maternity leave when I had DD. I was the primary breadwinner, and I did freelance consulting so if I didnt work, I didn't get paid. She was also a freelance consultant. She had been able to save and take a year off, and of course, really valued that time. But she couldn't get her head around the fact that a) her freelance consulting job paid a lot more than mine and b) (more importantly) her DH earned a shitload of money and mine was a SAHD who had previously been on basically minimum wage...... I had to get very blunt, "Jane, you don't know what you're talking about. Your DH earns more than enough that you can live and pay the mortgage and feed the children, so you just had to do a bit of saving. Your situation and mine are very different so I'd really appreciate it if you stopped teling me what I should do, when that really isn't even possible for me."

I’d hate to inform your MIL but she doesn’t have a big happy family.
While this gf may seem like a functioning adult, by causing trouble in someone else’s home because she’s not getting her own way is a bit pathetic, isn’t it?
If she wants to stick around with the brother out of sheer desperation, leave her to it.
Perhaps MIL hopes if she sells the ‘family dream’ her beloved son may actually grow up a bit.
Ain’t gonna happen.
It’s clear in this home you are the only one sticking up for yourself, so take yourself out of the equation. This woman is holding a household to ransom, so you don’t have to be a captive any longer.
Let’s hope they don’t get married - who on earth would want to watch?!!!!

I dont understand why you are going along with this big happy family thing when it’s only off the back of your pregnancy. She clearly wasn’t interested before.

so what if she’s making arrangements for gatherings, don’t play. This will only get worse when baby arrives.

Lots of fair comments on me being more firm with her. Ironically I’m fiery and forthright in my circles but DH’s family are so ’brush under carpet’ and non-confrontational I auto follow their lead after all these years. But she clearly isn’t them so I’m being silly not shutting her down myself in a polite but firm way.

DH has now said that apart from the gathering with his uncle where he’ll step in to support me if she starts up and leave straight after meal, we don’t have to attend any of these regular meet ups with his brother and gf. And will let his mum know why so she doesn’t force the issue. Hallejuah! He has agreed the 4 of us don’t get on, it seems silly to play happy families for the sake of our child who will prob only care about time with his grandma, not a weird uncle and gf.

You sound a bit smug op maybe that’s why she doesn’t like you. I live in London too but I can drive! Very handy with a small person and grocery shopping.

Eh? You think I’m smug because I don’t feel the need to drive…? I’ve survived 40 years not needing to drive (30 of those in London), my MIL has lived her whole life in London not knowing how to drive and raised 3 kids as a single mum. Her mother also lived her whole life in London not knowing how to drive and raised 4 kids as a single mum. But please patronise me by telling me why I need to drive….

We do online grocery shopping and have a supermarket 15 min walk away for emergencies. I’m used to carrying 20kg rucksacks up mountains and fells so carrying heaving shopping on my back with a child in tow isn’t a problem. Or even cycling with my child in a carrier like a lot of people in London do.