Dealing with my mother

[SarahAndQuack]

My mum has always been difficult. My memories of my childhood are pretty awful. She's now in her early 70s; covid seems to have hit her very hard and left her very depressed. She does have positive qualities, and I can see that she is miserable and lonely. But I know that, invariably, she will make any significant life event extra stressful, either by having tantrums or making unpleasant comments if it's something positive, or kicking off about how I've ruined my life/how much worse things are for her if it's negative. That is just how she is. She would be mortified to hear it, but it's the case.

I have two brothers both of whom have wives and children; we're all in our late 30s/early 40s. For a while we tried doing family Christmas with mum hosting, which she desperately wanted to do, although in practice it meant me cooking in a filthy kitchen while she had a tantrum/panic and got very stressed. Over the years, one or other of us would say we were doing Christmas with our partners, and she would organise an 'alternative Christmas' where the same thing would happen. She is absolutely fanatical about this. She is also furiously jealous of her children's in-laws and will rant for ages about how unfair any arrangement is. For a while my younger brother and his wife did alternate Christmases with each set of in-laws, as they live nearby. My mum constantly complained about being invited to a Christmas that was not perfectly to her taste, whinged loudly about every detail, and generally made herself objectionable.

Gradually, both of my brothers have reduced levels of contact, which I find understandable.

My dad reinforces all of this. I don't get the sense he is miserable and lonely - he's still working which keeps him busy - but he actively encourages mum to see everyone as against her. An example would be: mum's a keen gardener with a lovely garden, but had some health issues and needed help. I found her a gardener happy to do a trial run. Instantly mum picked holes in every trivial thing this woman did - she'd trimmed grass an inch too far; she'd used shears for this when mum would use scissors. I couldn't get her to see that these things were trivial, or to accept that it would be ok just to say 'actually, this isn't working but thanks'. A few weeks in the gardener got in touch and said tactfully that she didn't feel it was working out. Weeks later, mum is still bitching about her, going on about how little she seemed to know and how poor her work was, while my dad smugly reinforces it by telling us all how talented mum is. My dad informed us that we should think of it as if mum was a master painter making great art, and she shouldn't have to put up with being assisted by someone who spoilt a masterpiece.

Everything in her life is like this: she is sure she is right and she has levels of knowledge/talent far beyond anyone around her, and my dad will always agree with her. So, for example, she volunteers at the local school to listen to children reading, and she becomes furious and frustrated that the qualified teachers and the headteacher do not take her perspective more seriously. She has some background in education (she did volunteer work for years), and when she was younger my brother and I tried hard to encourage her with that because she wanted to make a career out of it. But she wants to go in at a very high level and be treated as an expert, and it just wasn't going to happen without her putting in the work and the time to get qualifications or develop a career.

I don't want to have a massive showdown or 'go no contact'. But I've also hit the point where I just can't take it any more. For years I've done grey rock religiously and I've got very good at nodding and changing the subject. But increasingly, I feel very uncomfortable at the level of vitriol at other people she expects me to absorb. This Christmas she was ill and I saw both of my brothers (separately) with their families, and it was just lovely for me and for my DD. I really don't think I am being unreasonable here (I mean, say if I am). But I would like to know how other people in similar situations have managed it.

"The reason these people aren’t diagnosed is because these behaviours were not attributed to autism in the past".

The reason these people were not diagnosed in the past is that they think there is nothing wrong with them in terms of how they behave. They never wanted to seek nor seek out the necessary help. Narcissistic people for instance do not do well in therapy sessions mainly because they think there is nothing wrong with them. And there is the fact that these behaviours are not attributable to ASD. ASD is not and has never been classed as a personality disorder. It is a lifelong triad of impairments linked to social interaction and communication.

I am very interested in your perspective.

My master’s dissertation was about autistic girls and women. I have read a great deal of the literature around ASD presentations in different contexts. More and more research is beginning to support the view that personality disorders and autism might be linked:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-of-psychiatry/article/interface-of-autism-and-borderline-personality-disorder/65B36665CFAE841DC852F68996AD9ED6?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_source=bookmark

@SarahAndQuack You've got my sympathy, I've got a difficult mother of my own. Father was also horrendous, though that's a whole other issue. The problem we've got is that the world is full of unpleasant people, they frequently have children, and unfortunately we are those children. My mother also likes to complain and be rude about other people all the time. She's miserable company as a result and I've spent most of my adult life avoiding her. From what you've said I get the impression that this is bigger than that, though, there's a whole dysfunctional dynamic at play, including your younger brother being unwilling to do anything without her knowledge/permission. It's really hard. I'm still figuring out the mess of my own family so don't have much advice, but wanted to let you know that you're not alone, and I understand just how hard it is to take the simplest way out, which is NC.

No, we live a long way apart. I know lots of MNers seem to live close to family and it's an absolutely lovely thing to be close enough to call in for coffee or have a pub lunch.

I'm going to sidestep the discussion of autism if that's ok - I just don't think I can say anything useful, but I am listening.

Thank you. I'm so sorry you had to deal with all of that. Yes, there's a lot in play that I didn't post about (because no one has he time!). But I so much appreciated your post, and especially you saying that about how hard it is to go NC.

I get why people say it. And I get why sometimes it can be the right thing. But I just don't think I am there yet, and my brothers certainly are not. And (as you will know!) it's complicated because on the whole, people aren't cardboard cut outs of 'goodies' and 'baddies'. Something I miss hugely is the lovely conversations I used to have with my mum when she was happier, and in those, I'd catch the sense of the person she could have been. It's sad.

OP, I think you need to be very busy with work and life and go LC.
I wouldn't get into any discussion with your younger brother, he's not ready yet and you may find yourself scapegoated by him.
Keep up general contact with them, perhaps visiting quietly nearby during the summer and just avoid the subject of Christmas completely.
Do not get involved with your mothers arrangements like the gardening assistant again.
Its thankless.
Your fathers stoking your mothers negativity is serving some agenda for him, the question is what does he get from doing this?

I was NC with my father for years (until he died) and that was easy, but the level of abuse he dished out meant that it was very clear cut. I never had any regrets. I thought my mother was the decent parent until I started to experience her parenting away from my father (they had split up) and realised that us having a positive relationship meant agreeing with everything she said and making sure she always got her own way, and I couldn't do it any more. She didn't even seem to realise that she expected me to cater to her in that way. Once I started saying no, putting boundaries in place, the relationship fractured very quickly. She switches to nasty very quickly. It's really hard. I don't want a massive fall out. I just want her to be nice to me, which surely isn't that hard, except that it apparently is. This xmas has been an eye opener.

Your father was enabled by your mother and she was his secondary abuser. She’s always been like this but you were concentrating on dad.

Do not minimise her behaviour by calling it a fall out because that implies fault on your side too where there is not any . The normal rules of familial interaction do not apply to your family of origin and the rule book really does go out the window. Ultimately you will need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got. You are also going to have to let go of all hope that she will even now change or say sorry because she will not. She will never be nice to you (you perhaps remind her of her late H, she probably hated him too) and she is really not worth bothering about. I was also not surprised to see they got divorced, women like this cannot do relationships at all so the men in their lives are either as narcissistic as they are or are otherwise discarded. Drop the rope she holds out to you here. You would not tolerate this from a friend, your mother is no different.

Sounds like mine... you just have to carry on with thee nodding and changing the subject. Have more boundaries... like Xmas... just be firm and say it is being hosted by you/your brother or whoever. Don't get into a debate about her view, just say thanks for your feedback but these are the plans you can either come or not come. My mum gave me a load of awful abuse 6 months ago and now is going no contact with me... I have tried to the run up of Xmas to get on amicable terms with her so she isn't left spending Xmas on her own... to no avail. On Xmas day I even drove to her house and left a box of food including a plate of Xmas dinner. Not heard anything from her! I know she got it as my brother checked in with her. Just telling you this to know you are not alone with a crap mum.

You should not have bothered but you need to ask yourself why you did that. Do you feel obligated to get still?.

Drop the rope she holds out to you and have no more to do with her. She did you a favour actually by deciding to go no contact so saved you doing that.

It should read do you feel obligated to her still?

Not sure if it was obligation or that I felt sorry for her. She's 75 and on her own and thought she still deserves an Xmas dinner. But i guess I hoped it would also be an olive branch. I'm 47 and I never learn lol. But I prob won't do anything like this again. She certainly would never do something like this for me or my siblings. Sorry for jumping on OPs thread with my woes

It’s sad and comforting to realise that there are many others with a dysfunctional relationship with their mother too. I moved almost 2 hours away to get away from mine and to minimise the ability for her to pop into my house daily. I would 100% have gone NC before I had my DC (and if I were an only child) if I knew going NC was an option. My siblings and I are also in our 30s/40s and still struggle with navigating our relationships with her. We sometimes laugh about waking up to her 3 page ranty WhatsApp messages when she has fallen out with one of us and must announce how her feelings have been hurt, what she has done for us, how ungrateful we all are, how other children treat their mums and how she made a mistake by taking us with her after her divorce as our DF would have been a much better parent. At other times, it’s just crushing. And there is no room to “wrong her” in private because it ends up being a public show of “Look at how your sibling has disrespected me!”.

I’ve now learnt to gently take myself to my bedroom for 30mins every day she’s visiting to get a break from her negativity. I also silently celebrate after the end of a visit where she has managed to not speak badly on my siblings or her relatives for essentially not agreeing with her.

It’s so hard and incredibly draining indeed.

.

'and must announce how her feelings have been hurt, what she has done for us, how ungrateful we all are, how other children treat their mums and how she made a mistake by taking us with her after her divorce as our DF would have been a much better parent'

That's so horrible. I can understand why you all end up laughing at her rants from time to time because they are clearly so over the top, but honestly, how incredibly nasty of her. She clearly doesn't see any of you as real people who are deserving of respect and care - she's just using you all to mop up her vitriol

I would suggest having a good think about the impact that all this vitriol has on you, and what it costs you to keep absorbing it x

You have my sympathy. Mine is negative negative. Bought kids nothing. Nothing is ever enough either. Low contact and tight boundaries good til she bored and rings.. god its tiring. 80s...

Cut off contact. I did over a year ago and life has been so much better. Good luck

Your dad has enabled her narcissistic manner, she won’t even check herself for it as he has encouraged it. That’s bizarre but not uncommon.

I assume he’s making an easier life for himself but it’s his place to tell her when she’s behaving unreasonably.

it sounds like she may have low esteem or depression. I’d speak to her about this and try to encourage self awareness

Awful op but look she wont change in her 70s mine 80s with same crap! We tolerate her a day each at xmas 3 us. You get told on here ah she your mum. Its awful though. Mine had me crying xmas morn as she didnt get her own way. Its awful. I hate it

You need to distance yourself from your mum, if not for yourself, do it for your DD. Surely she deserves to be your priority at this special time of year.

Are you actually looking for solutions or just wanting a moan?

Your parents are highly unlikely to change. This, is it until they die. To be blunt, you won’t get an award for putting up with them and IRL nobody will actually care about the effort you put in with them- your brothers certainly don’t seem to. Perhaps you have a God/s or a belief in Karma or similar that has you ‘coming back for more’ again and again? Otherwise the only thing making you tolerate the intolerable is you.

Your parents will take more and more of your time as they age and it will be more and more draining. What do you want to do about that?

There won’t be a perfect solution and if you shrug off all the available imperfect options then you are agreeing for everything to stay the same.

I understand people use MN to let off steam, and you definitely deserve to let off steam. It’s just none of this will change anything.

My DM was exactly the same and she was a narcissist. Nothing was good enough, so many people wronged her, she could have had a different life. On and on coupled with vengeance and jealously.

I really tried to have a relationship with her for decades but it was pointless. She didn't have a relationship with anyone really, she just used people.

You need to go at least low contact.

I don't think he even does think she's behaving unreasonably. He can be as bad as her. She absolutely does have depression, but I don't think any of us get anywhere with her by raising it. We did try, for years. And it seems to have got worse after covid. But I think there's a point where I had to say I can't keep trying, because she has no interest in helping herself.

She is.