Son & girlfriend split. Need advice

[EveleenWinters]

My son & his girlfriend met up via a tinder hook up & she became pregnant.
This is obviously not ideal.
Now I will always try & be neutral & not interfere in relationships.
The baby is due next year & she is really struggling with her mental health. To the point social services are involved.
They live in England, us the other end of country.
She stopped working due to anxiety 3 months ago & claims UC.
I'm a bit annoyed as she told her parents that I said she came from a broken home.
My exact words were. My son wouldnt want the baby to come from a broken home & wants the relationship to work. She has divorced parents & completely taken what I said out of context.
But her family have now removed themselves from a WhatsApp group.
Son has said not to message her as she takes everything i say the wrong way.

I' ve put it down to hormones & she has been with a specialist mental health team while pregnant due to her mental health.
She wasn't feeling well & my son said maybe you're dehydrated. She said she didnt want a diagnosis. He was only trying to help.

They decided to try living with each other. My son has moved towns & moved his employment office & they've signed a joint tenancy.

Her mother lives around the corner, it's her childhood home & like most mothers we do everything for them when they're home.
Our son has lived by himself for 4 years.
My son is the only one paying the rent & all bills. He bought himself a t-shirt & she said she needs his money for the baby & he said he feels like a bank.

This weekend she has gone back to her mother's. Said she doesn't feel safe at home. Said there are items on floor & son hadn't put his clothes away.

They've been moved in for a month. My son works 16 hour days. As he's paying the bills & working overtime.
He's used all his paid leave up for appointments & cannot afford to take unpaid leave off as there's 1000k rent to find a month & she says she feels unsupported.

He can't do everything.
He forgot to take the bins out as it was midnight when he got home & she made her father do it.
It could have waited.
Hes sent me a video. All walkways are clear & she had left dirty dishes in the sink before she left & 4 cups by the bed.
He has obviously said you have to have good hygiene when the baby comes & cannot leave dirty dishes everywhere. He's doing his clothes a bit a day.
Again there's not much time when youre working 16 hours.
My son attempted suicide a few years ago & I'm concerned the stress will make him spiral again.
As I've said they moved in a month ago & she has gone to her mother's 3x & now shes not coming back.

He's afraid the tenancy is now broken & the landlord will kick him out.
She has asked him is he moving out.
He has nowhere to go. He's just moved his whole life to another town to try & make a go of it.
I honestly don't think she is being rational.
If she didn't want to move in. She should have been upfront from the start.

What happens next?
Our son has said he does not want the baby weaponised. But hes afraid that's it. Shes staying in her mum's to have the baby & won't go back home.

He has 2 weeks paternity & will then be back at work.
She has questioned what will happen when he is back at work. She wants a c section. He can't be there all the time he has to work to pay the rent.

It couldn't be any more of a mess if they tried.

He's more than willing to pay child maintenance but also has to afford to live in this house they both agreed to live in.
Hes already doing all the overtime going.

She had a go at him for not buying anything for the baby. He doesn't need to until a month before he doesnt want to tempt fate.

we have bought all the main things & she hasnt even thanked us.

They both had unprotected sex & this is the ultimate consequence
Im devastated as it doesn't look like we will ever see our grandchild.
We're visiting in March for a week for the birth of the baby.
My son is many things & I will always tell him if hes wrong. But I do think he is being treated unfairly here.

We're trying to help hom come up with a plan as there's no way this will resolve amicably & wants to see his child.
Any advice will be gratefully received.
Does he contact the CSA?
Will they take all his bills into account?
He's on the phone crying to us & I feel helpless.

He clearly needs to seek legal advice and get a proper agreement sorted as to when he will see/ have the baby and how much he has to pay to support her. He may not be able to afford the house they planned to live in. Harsh as it may sound, he has to live with the consequences of this relationship and so does she.

Are you saying they met through Tinder and she became pregnant on a one night stand then they established a relationship because she was pregnant?

If that is the case then he should be asking for a DNA test to ensure the baby is his before anything else. There is no easy way to ask for this but he needs to make sure he is the Father of this baby.

How old are they both?

Gosh this is complicated. It’s a shame your son’s/your going in thought point was the ‘broken home’ comment. They don’t sound at all compatible with their mental health histories, and I would think it far better for them to co-parent not in a relationship with clear support structures and boundaries in place. Learning to live with a partner is really tough for any couple, and under such pressure even more so. It does sound like your son really is doing his best, but is it what he really truly wants? Is it what she wants? Have they really thought about if they want to make it work together in the long run? If they do, then hopefully they can manage through the tough times, but they don’t have any foundations to build on. I’m sorry, but moving town, job location signing up to the tenancy etc does sound like it was really hasty.

The best thing I can think of is to ignore what’s already been done in terms of the flat, job etc. Start afresh with what each wants the future to truly look like, (not what they feel obligated to do) and then try and work towards that.

And no he hasn't broken his tenancy. She has a right to live there but is choosing not to, that doesn't mean anything. She is however liable for the rent that is payable. I am assuming she has updated UC to say she is now living back with her parents.

Gosh what a mess. Was he working in her local area to hook up on tinder?
This has long term disaster all over it. Have you had any discussions with her parents? I know they left the WhatsApp group but outside of that, are they approachable ( and rational)?

He needs to move somewhere he can afford, for starters. What does he want custody to look like? Does he see himself living in her town long term?

Of course you’ll get to see the grandchild, but it doesn’t sound like it’ll be smooth sailing for him. I’d be encouraging him to see other family and friends as much as possible.

First off DNA to check the baby is his and some legal advice.

If the baby is his he is in for a long bumpy road and needs to live somewhere he can afford. It doesn’t sound like she wants the relationship to work and they will be parenting solo.

How selfish of both of them to have not put contraception in place.

You are too involved. How old are they?

You are saying in one breath that she is mentally unwell and in the next that she’s not rational! Well that’s because she’s a complete stranger that he’s made a baby with and you know absolutely nothing about her. She potentially comes from a line of people with poor mental health. Who knows? He certainly doesn’t. You are trying to illicit sympathy for him and I’m really not sure why.

Oh OP, sending love to you and your son. It sounds like the pair of them have played silly games and won silly prizes here. How old are they?

What is his take home salary (with and without overtime as this doesn't seem like it's sustainable!) would be better entitled to any UC top up? I've just done a brief calc on my local authority and a single person over 25 would need to be taking home somewhere around £2.6k a month before they weren't eligible - would this allow him to dial back some of the overtime to preserve his mental health?

Would the landlord allow them to break their tenancy and he move somewhere cheaper?

I think he should seek some legal advice re the baby before it's born. My understanding is that he will have very little say initially about being named on the BC or whatever so it would be wise to have some guidance on what to do to ensure contact with his baby, including a DNA test for starters and applications to the court to secure parental responsibility and a custody/visitation schedule if needed.

I would encourage him to be civil with the mum and not get into anything too contentious. Ensure when/if it gets to court he accepts and is open to the fact that baby needs to be the priority, not either of them. Initially that will likely be baby having one primary carer and not doing overnights with dad, especially if she chooses to breastfeed. Ensure he expressed to the court that he understands this but wishes to visit as frequently as the court will allow, with a view to taking overnights as the child gets older so that it's on record as to the reason she has primary carer status - if he wants to go 50:50 later down the line it would make it harder to claim that it was his disinterest that left baby with her.

Document everything, show up, shut up and accept that it's not fair but do the best he can. Pay maintenance and provide for his child without letting the child get caught in the middle of whatever games the grown ups might choose to play.

ETA: I would be mindful of how you speak about her/the situation to him. I appreciate you are devastated about it all, but it's as much his actions that got them here as it is hers, but you don't speak hugely kindly of her. You mention MH issues, divorced parents, you know nothing about her or her background, she may be feeling all manner of things and has gone home to feel safe and supported. That doesn't allow her to run roughshod over everything, but be mindful not to encourage him to paint her as the villain. It won't help amicable co-parenting, or in court. Their relationship ended, that's sad, and I'm sure everyone has said/acted in ways that aren't ideal, but that doesn't inherently make her an awful person

You said you would try to be neutral, but that’s going to be impossible when you only have one side of the story.
Bottom line is a relationship isn’t going to work, it doesn’t really matter whose fault it is.
DNA test, legal rights to see his child, move somewhere he can afford, stop working 16 hour days. Although you didn’t say if that was every day or condensed.

Well it’s a shit show, but that was pretty much inevitable if you have sex with a stranger and don’t use contraception. So - other that the fact that they have broke up and she has moved out, what is the issue? In practical terms he has a job and a flat that will be suitable for the baby when he has contact. If the rent is £1k a month and he’s working full time that sounds manageable. Why is he worried about having used up annual leave? (He won’t btw if he’s only been there a month, he’ll have to do what the rest of us do and accrue leave entitlement.)

I understand your concerns over his MH, but break down the issues for him. They’re not really big issues. She has family support and a home. So does he. Once the baby arrives he should visit a few times a week in her home, building to in his home for short periods. And pay her whatever the going rate is. He should certainly stay local and try and build a life there and get to know his baby.

I've said a dna test too needs to ve done.
Hes 28 shes 26.
Yes. Met on a dating app both utterly irresponsible

Exactly. Thats my worry. He has a good wage, but how much will csa take, will they consider all his outgoing bills etc. No good if it leaves him with not enough money to live on.
Actions have consequences. He'd be homeless if they take too much. It has to be balanced surely?

Thanks, yes it is a shitshow. The worry i have is that csa will take so much he cant afford to live in his house he's just moved to. Appreciate I am borrowing worry.
Just trying to get things straight in my head to help him.

He is telling a depressed pregnant woman she ' needs to have good hygiene" by doing the dishes as if she doesn't it will harm her baby?!

Yeah it's not going to work is it. I'm afraid you need to stop being so closely enmeshed in your sobs relationship.

He's telling you she's saying all these things but there's two sides to every story. You need to keep your distance as you can't make them have a happy relationship.

Rather than panicking why not look up how much he’ll have to pay. I don’t mean to sound like an arse, but your ds (28 and didn’t use condoms ) has gone from zero to 100 in half a second. If you want to support him, don’t do the same. - you need to be calm and work out actual facts to present to him. Not spiral yourself into ‘OMG she’s going to take all his money and he’s going to be homeless.’ He won’t be. At all. Maybe a bit broke, but he’ll survive.

That's not what he said. He said she needs to have good hygiene when the baby comes.

Have you actually considered the baby in all this?

I thought your son was 18, not 28, by the way you infantilise him. He needs to start preparing for this baby (and yes, that means buying things). You need to stop being so involved and let him deal with the consequences of his actions.

The Csa amount is a percentage of income. He'll have to pay it and they won't take his rent or other bills into account.
How long left on his tenancy? When that ends he can move somewhere cheaper.
Hes not broken the tenancy as she is choosing not to live there.
If he is going to struggle to pay bills once hes paying csa then he needs to save what he can. If you have bought lots of baby stuff them he may have to just say he cant afford to buy liads more now as he has all this extra rent to pay.
Make sure she is now claiming benefits living at her parents not with him.
It sounds like hes tried to do the right thing but that they are utterly incompatible.
If he wants to stay in baby's life then he can rent a cheaper place over there eventually when his fixed term ends. All fixed terms will end in may next year anyway due to law changes but he'd need to give notice. If social care are involved then it sounds like her mental health conditions are fairly serious and he should probably stay close in case he needs to become primary carer.
I think him analysing her behaviour is pointless. Just accept the relationship is over and work from there.

This is not a good relationship, it sounds like it only exists because she got pregnant (and yes do a paternity test), they don't seem to be compatible and her mental health problems are a big red flag. He may have to support the baby but I think he needs to separate himself from the mother.

He's made a rod for his own back, they both have. I'm asking for advice to get things straight in my head to advise my son. Solicitors, the csa, being on birth certificate.
Yes, she is a complete stranger. I tried talking to her & she lied about what I said to her family. That isnt rational.
If your child was crying down the phone to you, I'm sure you'd be at a loss on what to do too.

Thanks for this.

Who come on OP. He’s 28!!’ I assumed early twenties. This is big boy grown up stuff. It’s called consequences when you decide to have sex with strangers and not prioritise contraception.

okay if social services are involved and I was giving advice to my son I would be suggesting he stays actively involved with the pregnancy/baby and be sure that SS knows he is a stable alternative parent. Trying to have an intimate relationship with the mother is a no-go. He tried. It failed. Healthy co-parebting is the way forward. He needs to stay close to them to ensure he is bonding with the child. If he can’t afford his current accommodation then he needs to find accommodation he can afford. He will also have to work out a schedule with the mother re. seeing the baby once it’s born. Does she plan to breast feed?

Thanks for this, its balanced & given me some clarity. Weve said all along to be calm & civil. Baby is the most important person in all of this.
They have both been completely irresponsible & have to deal with the consequences.

Agree completely not sure on breast feeding if im honest.