Adult DSD Turning the screw on DH

[Pemberlyhouse]

DSD is now early 30s. For more than a decade she has wrestled with an eating disorder and other mental health issues. Quite honestly, it's been hell. Mainly for her but also for us. There have been a number of occasions where we thought she was going to die. I've seen DH in absolute pieces over the situation and her sister is now keeping her at arms length because she can't deal with the roller coaster anymore.

She now lives on her own and has a job but her mental health is fragile. We know she is ill and probably will be for the rest of her life.

However, I can't help noticing how she works to turn the screw on my husband, almost like she has a need to keep him in a state of anxiety.

She will tell him how worried she is about money, how much her flat is costing, how she's saving every penny to keep her flat. DH gets worried and is on the phone to her trying to reassure her and work out a solution. Next thing we know she's off on another big foreign holiday to some far flung destination that isn't cheap. She has been on 5 foreign holidays in the past 2 years whilst pleading poverty.

She's tried to turn the screw again recently and my DH actually got really angry this time. I think he's finally starting to put two and two together and that actions are not matching what she's saying. When he got angry she hung up on him.

Her sister has told us she lies a lot and that she can't really deal with it anymore as she don't know what's true. I used to think this is too harsh but now I think it's just her sister's way of coping after so long and can no longer blame her.

DSD can't access anymore mental health support as she's had so much help over the last decade. I think she needs more psychology support but DH seems to think this is no longer an option. Whenever something good happens to someone DSD will have an episode and need help and support. It's like clockwork.

We are starting to reach the end of our tethers with it all. We don't know what's real and what isn't. DH has tried talking to her but she just won't engage in difficult conversations. Anytime she is challenged she will stop eating or start over excersing to lose weight. It feels like she brandishes her ED like a weapon so no one can challenge her on her behaviour.

It's so sad to admit but after a decade of hand wringing and ongoing support I feel like my sympathy has diminished. DH is exhausted with it all.

We have young children together and I'm dreading having to explain to the kids she's passed if the worst happens. It makes me so sad for her but also angry that she tries to manipulate those that have supported her for so long.

Anyone who can offer some words of advice or support?

I don’t have the answer but been through/going through similar with a friend.

the way I see it, it’s all about control because she is obviously feeling in no control. Control of others/control of themselves..control of their mental health/eating with no S**t given to the mental toll it takes on others. (I think mine does which infuriates me even more)

unfortunately mine has come to a head and I can no longer support the pity of whatever is to come or the “I’m really trying/I’m really struggling” so in turn she’s gone elsewhere for it. Fine for me but not for the next victim she’s subjecting the utter chaos on.

I do very much love her but I’m like you and at the end of my tether (also your other SD by the sounds of things). My only advice would be as someone else said “you’ll work it out, you cannot go on holiday and plead poverty” and be stern about it and do not feed in to anything else.

ps. My SD also has ED, I experienced nothing like this before so those with mental health issues/ED do not all behave the same.

best wishes to you and your husband as well as your children, I know how hard this is xx

Yes i agree its not intentional to some degree as they just arent well.
Sadpy there are no easy answers...
I'd potentially offer to help with budgeting but i wouldnt be bank rolling her holidays

It's such a difficult situation though.. especially when its your own child.

Obviously impossible to say without full history but i had the same thought as a poster above. My mil (who i believe has histronic personality disorder) did come to mind when reading this

She also has what i'd describe as controlled anorexia shes 60 and goes from ultra thin to painfully thin. It tends to go in cycles and generally flares up when she isnt getting enough attention.

This is precisely it OP.

I support a young person with anorexia and their family that I am extremely close to, and the extremes she will go to in order to exert control would send most people spinning and she has been called some horrible things because of it by people who don't understand the disease.

A recent one being her sister announced a pregnancy and so the YP decided to hurl a verbal and text assault on the mum saying it is all her mums fault that she is the way she is and can't eat and she has been a horrible mother, when it couldn't be further from the truth.

It's a really poorly understood and woefully unsupported condition.

Control is the root of the condition and when things are new it can feel out of control. There is also a percentage of comorbidity with autism, which can make tolerating change nigh on impossible for those with both. It can make them seem like narcissistic controlling abusers.

The thing I have noticed is a lack of support for parents and carers especially of adult patients. There's no unified source of support with trained psychotherapists to explain how to handle our young people with anorexia when giving them the illusion of control is the only thing that seems to abate the deterioration of their physical health, when relinquishing control is also ultimately their undoing too.

Have you had any mental health support and has your husband OP? You both need it. It is so so important that you have some real trauma informed support.

I only came here to give you these 💐

You are literally describing my MIL. Thankfully DH is totally wise to her. We are currently having to buy them a house because of her irresponsible choices, because we don’t want to see DFIL homeless.

Her brother owns their current house and is having to sell it due to ill health. In all of what’s happening it’s become apparent she’s spent years bullying her brother to literally support her lifestyle. DFIL ‘let’s her do what she wants for a quiet life’. So it’s very apparent, now, they’ve been enabling her for years, but it’s all now come to a bit of a head.

Sadly, with DH and I, she’s having to learn the word ‘no’. It’s coming hard and the tantrums are monumental!!!!! So far she ‘wants an extension’, wants to ‘landscape the garden’ of the house we are having to buy!!!! We are having to move them into one of my mothers rentals for a couple of months to break the chain of the house sale and completion on the new one and today request was a ‘do I get to choose the bathroom, I like the idea of a wall hung toilet’. I have had to ask her several times what she is paying for it with, it’s the only way to shut her up!

We keep telling her this is leaving us strapped for cash, but it just doesn’t register, at all. You can see DFIL is so embarrassed. But she’s had years of getting what she wants so undoing all of this now will be no easy task at all!!!

You literally have my deepest sympathies, but the best thing your DH can do is start to side step the issues so that she learns it’s not working any longer. I have a feeling it’s going to be a long road for us yet, so there will be a lot of ‘grey rocking’ requests to come.

Does she have a MH diagnosis? Sounds like what would have been borderline personality disorder or more often now called Emotionally unstable personality disorder.

Being a victim doesn't automatically make you a nice person.

I’d get DH a session with a therapist on how to manage DSDdo he stays healthy.

The lies are to meet a need. Your DD obviously has some serious mental health issues to have experienced ED and that's usually linked to childhood trauma. It's likely that she feels very anxious about her relationship with her dad and she has learnt that if she has an issue, like needing money, talking to him about it and him helping will make her feel cared for an loved. It will give her a sense of safety.
I have someone in my life who acts this way, they have a personality disorder. It's tough! Having an understanding of why it happens doesn't mean that the behaviour is justified but it does help me by easing that anger I can feel when I feel I'm being manipulated.

I just came to say that I thought some of the behaviour made me think of bpd too - apparently anorexia and bpd are commonly comorbid and according to Google about 1 in 4 people with an eating disorder have been found to also have bpd.

I think your DH needs to take an emotional step back so he is not so affected and doesn't take things so personally. Getting angry might be understandable but it's really not going to help. I think he needs to see that what she needs is reassurance - he doesn't need to actually worry, just reassure her that it's all going to be ok.

He needs to take it IMO in the way you take a child telling you they hate you, It's not fair on you or them to take it personally, you just say 'well I love you'. That's what dd needs, she's freaking out unnecessarily over things that are probably fine and she needs someone to say 'don't worry, I'm here and i love you'.

I think you need to reframe this, I don't think she's trying to keep him in a state of anxiety - she's trying to get herself out of a state of anxiety. And similarly of something good happens to someone else she may immediately feel they are better than her and that she is unloveable. She has no self esteem, and her well of need is so deep that it probably can never be filled by anyone. The need for constant reassurance is probably incredibly strong.

Has she had DBT? That's what I'd want for her if i were her parent, but she's 30 so not as simple as just making that decision of course.

I think it sounds like she feels loved when dad is in this state of anxiety and worry about her. I think you’re right to suggest he tries not to feed into the next lot of drama. Maybe he can change their dynamic by finding a new way of giving her attention so she doesn’t feel the need to seek it. Perhaps there’s something he could ‘need’ her help with?
I have a 25yr daughter with BPD who is also a compulsive liar. I don’t feed the drama anymore as I can’t take it. I find ways to make her feel valued to me in ways that her unique from her sisters eg, I ask her for decorating ideas, cat care, style choices etc. She has a very fragile sense of self but I think becoming useful to mum has helped her self esteem

My cousin was a heroin addict. My uncle did everything he possibly could to support her much to his own detriment. I won’t list it all here but it affected his finances, his health and his other relationships.
In the end he went to counselling and got some help to support but not enable her. This helped him a lot.
I would recommend some counselling to your partner. Yes he will care forever but he also has a life to live and he needs to live it but I know how hard it is.

Your husband needs to pay for some therapy... for himself.

My armchair non expert opinion is that an eating disorder is rarely a condition on it's own, but rather a behaviour that is being used, albeit not necessarily with intent, to meet the needs of another mental illness. The need to control others and using distress as a weapon sounds a lot like BPD.

Either way, whatever the label, your husband needs to find a way to absolve himself from the guilt he feels around her behaviours. He will need therapy to do this, because accepting that your child might harm themselves 'because' of you but not because of you is a total mindfuck.

My best friend has an ED (but realistically BPD and autism, undiagnosed) and she is awesome in a million ways but her poor parents are broken.

Have a look at some of the stuff on codependency. People can become codependent when trying to support someone with mental health conditions just as they can with addicts. If you’re scared to tell her she needs to take responsibility/leave her to be responsible & change your response because she’ll escalate then codependency is there.

Yes she sounds very ill, but she has to want to find the help she needs/get bored with the life she needs/engage with services that can help her change her thinking. And the first step is taking responsibility and not expecting others to fix her.

Alk your dh can do is hold his own boundaries. That can be easier if he has a clear understanding of the line between support and enabling.

It’s not easy but if you can find someone who can talk through the codependency stuff with you it will be helpful.

You can't tell another person what to do (and expect them to do what that is) - unless you are maybe a highly qualified psychiatrist unconnected to the problem.

I would say get DH lots of counselling to talk through the issue and stop him running round in circles over DD

This.

I won't diagnose your DSD especially as personality disorders are complex and contested. She needs to be willing to engage with mental health services. Your dh could offer to contribute to that. Beyond that he needs to decide on his boundaries and hold them. "Grey rock" is often advised on here but is only really a short term tactic in a relationship like this he wants to maintain. There is a difference between grey rock and not responding to provocation. Whatever the cause, this provocation and manipulation is fulfilling some need for her that you cannot fix independently. The only thing that will fix this is if she is willing to engage in treatment. If other people refuse to meet her psychological demands, this may increase her willingness, but she likely will not respond to any demands or begging on your part.

EDs, especially anorexia, are linked to a number of other MH conditions, not only BPD/EUPD (many people think EUPD is even more stigmatising than BPD as a term) but also now autism. On top of that trauma is strongly linked to emotionally unstable behaviour. There's a lot potentially going on here, but it's not a thing you can fix. I'm emphasising that because "fix it" is a very tempting trap.

despite all the terrible things you hear about personality disorders, they can respond to therapy in many cases, especially these symptoms. The key is really the person developing insight into their condition and becoming willing to work on it.

I agree with your dh taking some steps to stop feeding the drama. We’ve been though similar although I think sd mum got it far far worse than we dd having talked since.
It is draining and consumes your every thought and you and your dh have a right to stop that for yourselves. It doesn’t mean you don’t love or support her it out means your own boundaries can protect your mental health whilst not reacting to the drama. Initially it will be worse then settle but the first part will be the hardest while she really kicks back

I do agree with @knitnerd90

I did think reading your posts that DBT might be helpful if you SD engages. www.eatingdisorderhope.com/treatment-for-eating-disorders/therapies/dialectical-behavioral-therapy-dbt

So she’s not getting money off you? So what’s the issue? Maybe she just wants to sound off to her dad or feels vulnerable and wants to know her dad is there.

It’s easy for you to be pissed off as it’s not your DC; I’m sure if your adult DCs in the future needed your support however questionable then you’d be there without question.

All you need to do is support and sympathise with your DH.

Gosh this is a hard read.

you have boundaries but are you sure buying them a property is the right thing? It’s still enabling her and your FIL to a degree. He chooses to stay with her.

I think you and especially your DH need to see what support and advice such as Mind is available to you. I think you are both well aware all of these behaviours are because of her illness and that doesn’t make it easy

I think the idea of therapy for your DH is a good one as well as I think he needs a professional sounding board as well

why does he think help can’t be accessed anymore? state or private due to funding or he feels she is a lost cause

You and your DH need to decide what to tell your DSD.

Kindly assist her financially in a very predictable manner - only what you can afford to do long term - and absolutely no more.

Don't give her fuel to feel sorry for herself or to out compete for another person's good news. Keep news low key. Compliment DSD for all her successes and repeat often how much you admire her overcoming her ilness.
Compliment what she does rather than how she looks.
Expect DSD to contribute to family events like her sibling. (Ask her to supply XXX for Christmas etc.)

DSD is responsible for her own journey. Backing off is good.
be strong in offering company and affection but not money.

She isn’t “turning the screw” at least not on purpose. Eating disorders are really complex, and when we reach a place where restricting eating is the only way to get ourselves heard, that can start to become a way of being in the world.
She isn’t pretending to be anxious, she is anxious, and that is what needs to be worked on.
It’s not possible to “get to the end” of psychological support. There will be some more available. Usually NHS support is CBT, it may be that she need a different kind of therapy now, to try to work on what got her there in the first place. Eating disorders are usually a response to something, and maybe that’s what needs to be worked on now.

I’d also encourage your DH to get some support to manage it. it doesn’t sound as though he is helping, by being so stressed.

Thank you. Completely agree with you and your thoughts and it’s absolutely something we’ve had to consider.

In his time FIL has done an awful lot for us in terms of helping us (not financially as they never could have done), but physically with house improvements and things which has helped us financially by not having to pay others. He is phenomenally embarrassed by it all and I know that when she pushes us now he will gently remind her she is out of line, but the moment she starts a tantrum he tells DH there is nothing he can do with her. We think he goes and hides in the garage TBH…

We just can’t see him out on the street, it wouldn’t be morally right. At least this way we can step in and have some control where he can’t or won’t! DH handles his mother well, so this gives him the chance to support his father to manage her a bit more. He will take no nonsense at all from her.

So then just listen and take everything she’s saying with a pinch of salt. If she’s not asking for money and she just wants to use him to sound off to then I don’t really see why he needs to challenge her when it has such a negative impact on her.

It sounds draining and maybe he should limit the time spent on calls etc but otherwise if he knows this is all her MH then he needs to accept he cannot change her

Has she been assessed for a neurodiversity like autism? Super common in eating disorders to also have autism - it’s more about trying to control part of your environment rather than being super slim. If she is autistic will have social communication difficulties / difficulties processing emotions and this therefore has come up with her own way of having a relationship with people.

what does she really get out of this behaviour? Try and work that out and then work out it there is another way she can get that but in a postive way. It’s a bit like if a child users a whiny voice and then they get their mum comforting them - they’ll use a whiny voice when they want comfort.