DD debating going NC with her dad. What do I do?

[MumintheMiddle00]

Hi,

This is really tricky one.

DD has been considering going NC with her dad for several years, but can't make that final decision. He has DC with his new partner and DD really does love them, although they live far away and there is a very big age gap. They have more of a cousin relationship really. Nevertheless, they do mean a lot to DD and I honestly do think this is the biggest reason she can't draw a line under it, understandably.

Without going into too much detail, she's steadily losing all respect for her dad and just doesn't like the person he is. She does love him, but is finding his views and his whole personality really, very difficult to take. He can be very misogynistic, is becoming increasingly right wing (and I'm talking far, angry right) and often says incredibly bigoted things and is actually quite aggressive when DD challenges him. Not physically of course! But just loudly shuts her down, calling her a snowflake etc.

She's 18, so I can't intervene really at all, but I would say, if he'd been saying and doing the things back when DD was little as he is now, I'd have really wanted to minimise contact.

Every time she sees him, she comes home mentally drained and sad and will often cry and then need to reset again. He shouts and swears at his kids a lot and has let DD down so many times. Broken promise after broken promise and I am so sad for her, as she's desperate to have a dad who is considerate and who respects her and basically just doesn't treat her like crap.

There have been things brought to my attention about him recently that have made my blood boil and I have said to DD that I would absolutely not blame her if she did want to stop seeing him.

As I've said though, it's his other DC that stops her doing this. They are completely innocent, after all, but seeing him is destroying her mental health, quite honestly.

When she hasn't seen him for a couple of months for example, she seems so much happier and calmer and just more herself, so I dread her going, knowing that she'll almost certainly come back home a little bit broken again.

I just don't know how to navigate this. Any advice would be really appreciated.

TIA

You don't do anything. She's 18 and it's for her to decide and navigate.

@ChillBarrog Yes, she's 18, but that doesn't mean I'm not involved. She's going to be living with us for the foreseeable and it affects us all. I've already said it's not my decision to make. I am looking for advice on how to help her.

I agree with this, this is not your problem to navigate you can only support her decision. My 2 DC went NC with their Dad last year for nearly 12 months over how he has generally been a crap Father since we split something he cannot accept. He has blamed me for poisoning their minds even though i have not spoken to him in years. TBH I just listen to the kids and offer a shoulder when they need it I am certainly not getting involved with him. I think this is all you can do with your DD.

So sorry, it must be awful to witness. But I don't think you can do anything until she decides. You can't influence her in any way. It has to be 100% her decision. And she shouldn't burn any bridges unless and until she is sure.

Would very low contact be an option. That way she could perhaps maintain phone contact with the younger siblings?

I assume he is some kind of INCEL and a racist bigot from what you have said, so nobody could blame her for cutting him off. But it does seem a shame for her to lose contact with the half siblings.

What is his partner like - does dd get on ok with her?

There is a distance between visiting regularly and going No Contact.

Why doesn't she reduce contact (and avoid talking about contentious issues for a while) and see how it goes?

So low Contact, not No Contact.

She doesn't have to go to see him she can just do face time for a chat and if it goes off course just say goodbye. I think cutting contact altogether would be a shame particularly with half siblings involved. How old are the children can she contact them directly to stay in touch? Could they come to you once in a while if they are old enough, to visit big sis. I guess the distance is the main problem, I assume she has to stay days at a time, which is too much.

You can only be there to pick up the pieces.

I do not know how old the half siblings are but is there some way she could see them independently of her father? Or communicate with them electronically.

Another thought would be to genyltly encourage her to have a bigger gap between visits.

Unlikely to be an INCEL if he's married! But an unpleasant person to be around. The right wing influencers have a lot to answer for stirring up hatred.

You can listen to her and support her decision, but you can’t really navigate anything. She’s an adult. I think you just need to make sure she knows you’ll support any decision she makes.

@tragichero she gets on OK with her, but they're far from close. She can also be incredibly insensitive and thoughtless when it comes to DD.

@TeenToTwenties I thought this might naturally happen actually, but she has been specifically talking about cutting him out altogether.

@BadgernTheGarden I think their age is what's making it harder. They're toddlers, so she can only see them through him really. I wouldn't mind them staying with us, but again, as it stands DD would have to see her dad to do this, even if it was just very briefly. It would be very painful for her. I'm sure it would be for him too, but he had had plenty of opportunity to fix this.

Sounds like she just needs a short break from her dad - I'd let her work it out herself. It could all blow over in a matter of days/weeks.

Teenagers have a tendency to over-dramatize - just be a shoulder for her to vent her frustations on and let her find her own way through this.

@Susiy it won't blow over. It's not a blip, it's an ongoing issue that's basically been going on the whole time. It's just his views have become more extreme and she's now developing her own adult mind and realising she really doesn't like what she sees anymore and maybe doesn't have to put up with it.

There’s a whole spectrum between fully involved and no contact. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. It doesn’t have to be a decision she makes now or at any certain point. It doesn’t have to be one decision that is made and set in stone. Perhaps help her to see that and support whatever position she is in in the moment.

I have been in similar situation with DS and no matter what age they are you can listen and guide. Ultimately I said to my DS that if he was to go NC then he needed to know that if anything happened to his dad than he could handle the NC -his dad is in poor health so that was a genuine concern (I worried that if his dad passed the impact of going NC would be a VERY heavy weight). I also said that if he was to make that decision it might be best to tell his dad he was going NC so that he wouldn't be plagued by incessant messages. Ultimately he has chosen to stay in contact, tbf the issues do not sound as challenging as for your daughter. I hope she is able to navigate this with your support.

If you can afford it, I'd offer her the option of seeing a counsellor so that she can be heard by someone outside the situation and helped to work out for herself what she really wants to do.

@NewJobProblem You're right and I did try to say this doesn't have to be an all or nothing decision. I think DD feels that she needs to be all in or all out though, as if she doesn't put all her effort into it, she can't do it, which I do understand actually. She feels like she has to almost become a different person when she sees her dad, just to get through it. I think if she saw him much less often, she'd almost lose the ability to do this - to pretend. I know that probably sounds a bit strange, but I do see where she's coming from.

@Amsooverthis that does sound like an incredibly difficult situation. I hope your DS feels happy with his decision.

She could just avoid him. His calls and so on.
She doesnt need to cut him off completely in a dramatic way.
Its very popular to go no contact . But at 18 thats a very big step . When really she could just completely avoid him .

@Starlight7080 actually, I've noticed recently that DD is probably already starting to do that. She has started making excuses not to see him. Excuses she wouldn't have made before, even when she didn't really want to see him.

No contact with her dad likely means no contact with her siblings.

Her dad is verbally and emotionally abusive and it's affecting her mental health.

The age gap sounds like she and her siblings will never have a really close relationship and with an abusive father in the mix, it's going to be really hard. Frankly, she can't help her siblings right now, especially if her mental health is taking hits every time she visits.

I think her mental and emotional health is the priority. It sounds like she's almost having to dissociate to get through visits.

If she goes no contact or just really spaced out her visits, she could ask if the sibs can contact her. If not, she can see them when she's 18.

I would encourage drastically reduced contact and get her into therapy. If she decides no contact, I'd support that.

If she continues going, this is going to be a huge mental and emotional drain on her and she's going to live with a sense of dread and possibly fear. I wouldn't encourage her to visit at the same frequency she is.

I went no contact with my abusive father when I was a teen but there were no siblings involved. No regrets.

@outerspacepotato it is abuse. You're right. That's why I feel I can't just be a shoulder and leave it at that. She does actually feel like she needs to protect her siblings. It's not just a case of her missing them. She feels obligated to make sure they're OK.

I think you should let her if she wants to. She obviously feels the need for a concrete barrier and I think you’d be parenting well to teach her to trust that instinct.

(I have my own horrid ex and it is disregarding that feeling, including being encouraged to suffer toxic family relationships when I was a child, that kept me married to him for so long.)

Be there for her and let her make the decision. I cut my dad out when I was 17.. over 10 years ago now. Some things for her to consider...

She may not get told if her dad dies suddenly or if he develops a long illness. He also may request to see/speak to her on his deathbed. Would she go? Would she go to the funeral? Would she be upset if noone told her he had did/was ill or when the funeral was?

I think people cut people out without thinking of the above. It's something I made peace with before cutting him out.

I don't expect to be told if my dad falls ill/dies and I am at peace with the fact I won't be at his funeral. Although it means I won't be there to support my sibling.

Does it have to be all or nothing? Can she take a big step back, and set a boundary for herself. Perhaps see the kids/ take them out somewhere, but have a quick cuppa with her dad first?

But she's not in a position to do anything about that except speak to their mom about protecting them. That's their mom's responsibility, not hers. Social services won't do anything about a dad yelling and swearing at his kids.

She also can't martyr herself for them. It wpn't help them but it will harm her. This is a situation where she has to put on her own oxygen mask and do what's in her best interests. She has no control and no leverage here.