Friend and “soul mate”

[Dexysmidnightstroller]

So DH has a hobby, which is fine. I’ve always encouraged it and have gone with him to some events etc even though it’s not my thing. He belongs to groups on social media who post about it regularly, a mixture of people who can happily talk about it for hours.

A while ago we spent some time apart, not relevant except during that time he started messaging one of the women on the group on WhatsApp, rather than on the open forum. He showed me their chat and it was the usual hobby stuff, nothing inappropriate.

Fast Forward, and in the time since: she sent him an absolutely amazing present for a milestone birthday. I mean amazing - a piece of artwork she did herself. She is clearly super talented.

She came to his major birthday party. They spoke in a slightly awkward way and to me she was trying very hard to agree with everything he said, but there was nothing dodgy.

Then when she got engaged she told him but added “I was going to say no, but …” which he said was a “joke” but to me read like she was trying to play down the significance. Then the night before she got married she messaged him saying “You’ll always be my [hobby] soulmate.” He stressed that it is just about the hobby, that’s all she meant. But who sends messages to anyone like that just before they marry? They have apparently never exchanged any other gifts apart from that one from her, but they message several times a week. They have taken to calling themselves “King and Queen [Hobby]” which they shorten to KHobby and QHobby. They want to meet at an event shortly where he is going with a male friend. They arranged it months ago though he only thought to tell me a couple of weeks ago because I was arranging the diary.

I’ve not said he can’t go or anything but he gets annoyed if I even mention her. Is this all fine and normal? Shall I stop thinking about it? Or is it a bit much?

Sorry, you need to come down hard on this.
Its not going to go away, he is defending his position instead of saying. “I’m sorry, I can see it isn’t fair on you”.
You need to say I am not accepting being cuckooed out of my marriage, you need to choose & while you do, you can fuck off back to your Mum’s”.
Say it, mean it.

When somebody sticks hard to an unreasonable stance, it’s hard not to start to unpick your own argument and reasons for adopting your own position. He’s not gaslighting you, but it has the same effect. Decent people always examine their own position with a view to checking they are being fair and reasonable. When this is met with a stubborn refusal to see a different viewpoint, we might start doubting ourselves.
You are not wrong about this.
The reason we are all saying the same thing is that with the information you have given us, we can also see that you are not wrong about this.
I think it’s time to stop trying to justify your stand, he knows full well what it is and doesn’t want you to be right because he doesn’t want to stop doing what he’s doing. I would tell him it’s totally unacceptable to you, it has to change, and it’s so serious to you, that you are willing to step away from the marriage if it doesn’t change.
He’s pushing and pushing at this boundary, seeing how far he can push it, and hoping that you’ll step away from it.
You’ll argue forever with him because the argument has reached an impasse. It’s now become pointless.
You can just say that whatever he thinks, for you, this particular friendship has crossed an unacceptable boundary, you feel like an extra in your own marriage and he needs to put you and your feelings where you belong: first.

I know you want the marriage and that this stuff is very hard to do and very scary, I honestly know that and that we are all full of resolve from our own armchairs and that this is your life we are talking about.
However, ask yourself what kind of marriage you want going forward: one with this issue festering away and driving you crazy forever, or with you having peace of mind because he’s learned you won’t tolerate his little ego-driven sabbaticals from his commitment to you.
My husband was unfaithful and I decided that if we were going to stay together I needed to think very, very carefully about what that was going to look like and set my stall out.
No grey areas, zero tolerance. Absolute and bleedin’ obvious bare minimum was: stop this shit, never do this shit again.
There was a ton more on my list, but as much as I wanted my marriage, I didn’t want one which had no peace of mind or a lack of commitment, or anything that looked like me and the children were less than top priority.
A materially comfortable lifestyle or staying put just because you don’t want to be divorced never, ever compensates for a shit marriage.
Decide what you want for your future and stick to it. Stick very hard to it.

I am so appreciative of the support I have had here. I know as a result that I am NOT unreasonable I am NOT paranoid and I am NOT in the wrong and I do NOT have to stay silent or tolerate this moronic shite from him and her.

To reiterate I really poured out my feelings v late last night. Said each and every aspect of their relationship that is wrong. Said I had always supported his hobby and always would, that I’ve never put restrictions on it and it’s great that he has made friends through it (as I said he hasn’t many and can struggle socially). BUT I absolutely will NEVER tolerate this soulmate fuckheadness. No no and no. No excuses and no pathetic justification. The King and Queen stuff is juvenile and lame, and no presents anymore - why the hell should they be buying them when they don’t for any other of the hobby lot. I don’t want him getting gifts from her and none out of our household income. And none of the above is negotiable.

So today it’s all trying to be nice from him, as if life is all sweet. Which is indeed what I want - but pretending last night didn’t happen is only acceptable if ALL of my conditions apply from now on. So, nauseating that it is I will see her messages and that’s his fault for creating the whole situation. I want my marriage to work and assuming he does I want respect, not conditional - exactly as he’s entitled from me. (In the past when she has come up he has encouraged me to find similar friends in my interests- I do have chats in groups etc but I don’t want some equivalent to him - I want him to stop. If he doesn’t like it tough, I’ve indulged this long enough and kept it bottled all the time, which leads to eventual outbursts as I’ve had and I’m not living like that anymore.

Absolutely right. Although there’s a clumsy “If I’m a model husband from now on and pay her loads of attention this will all go away” attempt to fix this going on (some men can be cunning and cynical but sometimes there’s a huge amount of clueless going on too. No excuses, obviously, but some men are truly. hopeless at trying to fix emotional stuff) he’s still got a lot more to do.
If it was me, my list would be along these lines:

1. State clearly that he knows he overstepped a boundary and is very sorry and promises to do whatever you want and need to fix this (not what he wants, what YOU want)
2. Agree to give/ accept no more gifts in either direction and explain to this woman exactly why.
3. Stop contact altogether with this woman, or, if you think you’d be ok with acceptable contact:
4. Agree to step away from the exclusive ‘couply’ nicknames and ‘miss you’ type messages.
5. Agree to message exclusively about the hobby, no flirty chitchat or discussion about their respective marriages, that stuff is absolutely private.

Think carefully about 3) going forward, clearly define boundaries about further contact and ask yourself if you can honestly cope with any kind of contact at all. Really, really think carefully. Here’s why I say this:
My husband had moved jobs to a city a 60 mile commute from home, and that’s where he was unfaithful.
I insisted after the affair that he moved jobs, no quibble (in 35 years I had never, ever vetoed or tried to control any job choice or relocation for his career, ever) and he was fine with that.
He got a new job but in the same city and I genuinely thought I could handle it, but at the time, even him going to the railway station was a trigger for me and I finally knew I’d never be able to sustain it.
We moved to where we live now years ago, because it’s a big draw for companies in his industry, so it’s easy for him to move jobs/ get promotions without moving house and relocating, we were both sick of it.
The bigger city where he was unfaithful paid better though. I felt bad about changing my mind, after he’d ended the first job, but I realised I’d said I was ok with something that when it became reality, was intolerable to me. It wasn’t the job, it was the whole city and situation. All of it.
He’d got the job at interview and accepted it, so had to invent changed circumstances which meant he couldn’t take it up. It was awkward for him and I felt bad but knew I couldn’t cope with it, I just needed that whole chapter and everything about it out of our lives.
It wasn’t to stop him cheating, only he could do that and he could still do it wherever he worked anyway if he wanted to, I couldn’t stop him and it’s his job to stay faithful, not mine. I just wanted it all gone. If ever I visit that city now, it still feels like visiting a crime scene, even six years later. The body keeps the score, as the book goes.
He was great about it and said it was fine, it was all his fault anyway and he’d ruined it all by himself, for himself, he said it was totally understandable.
Don’t, whatever you do, agree to anything you might not be able to live with later, because you feel bad for asking for things you need, now that he’s being so nice.
Think very carefully if you can cope with any messages whatsoever, however unreasonable that sounds. If every message sent or received makes you wince, or will make you wince going forward in the future, who the hell wants a life with intermittent wincing?
It’s easier to set your stall out now than need to modify it later, remembering, of course, that you can change your mind about any or all of it at any point.

Thanks so much @Thewookiemustgo, I really appreciate your support along with everyone else’s (and I notice not a single commentator thinks his behaviour has been acceptable, meaning I’m actually tempted to show him this thread - I will if we have a repeat). I also really admire your strength of character and clarity of thought. I don’t think I would have recovered if they had had a physical affair. Given what their frankly juvenile and petty emotional twattery has done to me (which when said and done amounts to moronic behaviour on WhatsApp, a long way short of physical actions) in fact I know I wouldn’t have coped at all with an affair - it would destroy my marriage and I would hate him with every fibre of my being. I so admire those able to recover and reorder their marriages under greater strain than mine.

I’m not sure I’ve done exactly the right thing this afternoon: We had been planning to go to a hobby event when we are visiting family in another city soon. So today I went online to confirm arrangements for the event (I do most admin in the house). He was all “oh no, we don’t need to go” and “oh no it’s fine save the money”. No. I’ve made clear throughout I support him having a hobby (she won’t be there btw). I said we were going and put it in the diary accordingly. Because I’m not becoming the bad witch by stopping his hobby. And much more to the point, it is NOT the hobby that is the problem, as he damn well knows, it’s HER. And she wouldn’t have been a problem if she knew how to behave. So I’m absolutely not going to have a situation where he gives up the hobby and whines in 5 years time that he has no friends or any other bullshit (don’t know if he would but I’m not taking chances), and I’m especially not having any deflection from what he KNOWS is the problem. And the problem isn’t a harmless pastime, it is a grown woman supposedly married to someone else who is acting like a fecking teenager with a crush.

Sorry for the anger but it’s still working its way out of my system. And thanks again to those who have taken the time to help, I can’t tell you how much it has restored my confidence.

Don’t underestimate the damage to you from what he’s doing, believe me, it feels the same when your husband so much as shows an interest in somebody else and starts to invest, pursue or reciprocate .
I’m no stronger than the next woman, I’d have been just as devastated to find the messages you’ve read as I was to discover a as full blown affair.
For me it’s not the length of time, physical or not physical etc. that makes it worse, it’s all shit the second they cross a line. If he’d taken his OW out for one drink and been texting her it would have felt as bad as what actually panned out.
It’s the betrayal and putting somebody else before me that hurt, the affair was treacherous and the details are horrendously painful, but at the end of the day it was fantasy island clichéd twaddle. Ridiculous midlife crisis man in his fifties, married for thirty years with two children, running around with a wallet-chasing woman in her thirties. And before I get criticised, you don’t know but I do. She didn’t want him, she wanted my life.
If a younger version of him or richer version had showed up, he’d have been toast.
The whole thing was just more advanced than what you’re dealing with right now, a third person in your marriage and a stupid husband with his ego in the driving seat.
Your pain and anger are no different than mine.
You’re right to insist on going to the hobby event, he needs to see you modelling what you’re saying ie “You can have hobbies and friends, I’ll support you in that and take an interest.” But that woman needs to go and turn her energy back towards her own husband, not yours.
And if he’s getting the point, he’ll know why and agree with you.

@Thewookiemustgo strong or otherwise, you’ve really helped me here. He was quite sheepish about the event he’s going to with me, kept saying it’s fine, he doesn’t need to go, he doesn’t want to make me etc etc. I think it may be that he feels he should show that I’m coming first now (at fucking last in my own fucking marriage I’d add if so), but that’s not earning him any forgiveness etc from me because it is NOT WHAT I ASKED FOR. I have always supported and will always support a hobby he loves and am quite happy to attend and may even enjoy the day if nothing like on the same level. The problem which I can only pray has permeated his thick skull is not the hobby it’s that idiot woman who is obviously in thrall to his knowledge and passion for the hobby while he I bet not only feels the same way but hasn’t failed to notice she has a killer figure which I don’t. As you’ll have noticed I’m still angry but don’t feel the need to say any more to him, I’m just going to observe whether what I have said makes any difference.

It’s good you’ve laid down the boundaries and enforcing them.

However, part of me wonders whether he doesn’t want to do The Hobby with you as that’s a sign of unity, which may get back to her. Hopefully , though, it’s because he’s what’s to show he can take a step back from hobby.

@Dexysmidnightstroller don’t put yourself down, none of this ‘killer figure which I don’t’ crap!
Never, ever forget, you are his WIFE.
If being in thrall of his hobby and her ‘killer’ figure were what he really wanted he’d have been out of the door chasing it, telling you he was done.
He would have been relieved that you mentioned it and brought it up and it would have been his excuse to leave. This is just cake.
The flattery and attention from an attractive woman are food from the Gods for his ego. “oooh, look! I still got it.” Idiot.
Am not playing OW top trumps here, but my husband’s OW was 17 years younger than me, very beautiful, fabulous figure, exotically foreign, and made out that she thought he was God. And told him so. I’d make jokes about the second coming here but since it was all Viagra there you go….🙄
Did he want her when the shit hit the fan? Did he heck.
She no doubt scratched her gorgeous head at this point and couldn’t fathom why after all he’d said, he wanted to cut all contact and just go home. He had done such a great job on her that he was so done with his marriage and so unhappy at home, that she genuinely couldn’t believe he just wanted me, she even asked him if there was somebody else! (Bit rich coming from a OW but hey ho…😂 ) There was always somebody else: me! Finances not the issue for him here, either, he genuinely wanted to go back to Kansas, Oz wasn’t all it was cracked up to be in the end.
If I had a self esteem wobble about my looks he’d say “You don’t get it. You just don’t get it. You don’t have to change anything, I just want Wookie. My Wookie, not a thinner or younger or different version, just Wookie. I hate what I did and desperately regret it, it was the situation I was in love with, the way the affair and attention made me feel, not her.” He kept saying over and over that he’d ruined his life, nothing to do with me, it was all on him, and just wanted his life back.
It’s hard to wrap your head round why the hell, in that case, they do what they do, but affairs are rarely about the other person, mad as that sounds. My husband’s AP was playing a losing game from the start, she wracked her brains to wonder why he wouldn’t leave me and really should prefer her to a fifty something woman on her way to her bus pass. The answer was simple: she might be young and beautiful, but she wasn’t me.
So please realise that this woman’s arrival is nothing to do with you, his focus on her is not because of anything you are or are not, or anything she is or isn’t, she just represents the dopamine hit he’s chasing. It’s the validation and flattery he’s high on, not her.
This is all to do with him, his dodgy self esteem issues and age crises. It is absolutely nothing to do with you. He likes the excitement of the romantic game he’s playing, not the player, but that excitement gets projected onto the player and he thinks that’s where the excitement is coming from.
I think he wants you and his marriage and he might be stupid but he’s not so stupid as to be ignorant of the value of that. He just needs to climb down off his ego ladder and see it for what it is. Or get the ladder kicked from under him.
Hang on to your confidence and anger, it will set your boundary in stone and no doubt frighten the shit out if him. As it jolly well should.

Thanks again both. There’s no way I could survive him having an actual affair, that’s one thing I’ve learned from this. And I hope he has learned I’m not going to be a doormat. He hasn’t contacted her since we spoke and hasn’t said anything about the event he’s supposed to be meeting her at. I’m not going to - I’m going to wait to see if the message has gone through. I can’t begin to think how I will feel if it hasn’t. He’ll have caused some major damage if not. Wookie I remain in admiration of your strength and resilience, I just don’t think I have the same.

The soulmate remark would be enough for me. I’m so sorry.

I wish I’d spoken up earlier, I realise now what a doormat I’ve been. And I’m not convinced he has any intention of altering his behaviour to her, and I can’t see why his feelings for her would change just because I object. I’ve lost enough sleep over this. He is due to be at the event next week and she will be there. That will be an acid test.

Yeah right, nice try....OP that texting the night before her wedding, it gives off "it could/should have been you" vibes. Time for a straight conversation and ask him to think about how he would feel if the shoe was on the other foot.