Child arrangements order

[lifeofasinglewoman]

Hi,

So me and my ex partner have come to an agreement when it comes to our child’s contact arrangements, he has said he wants to have our child’s Friday to Sunday every other weekend, I have asked him about half terms, holidays, Christmas’s, birthdays etc and he has said we can sort this out between us at the time. Now my solicitor has asked a series of questions in regards to extra contact and I have asked him and he just says we can sort this between us 🤷🏼‍♀️ will the judge just take this? I have asked him about alternative birthdays and Christmas etc and about holidays and half terms but he just said we can sort it between us, also when he starts work again he said he wont be able to commit to having our child more due to having to work and that’s why he has said every other Friday to Sunday as that’s what he can commit too otherwise he won’t be employed by someone if he has limited working days he can do.

Is this going to be acceptable in court In two weeks? I mean I have asked him and I’ve not lied or anything he’s the one saying he can only commit to Friday to Sunday every other weekend?

Im just worried the judge will not accept this and if honest I want this to be the final court case because i don’t want to have to attend more hearings in the future. I mean it’s what the ex wants contact wise and I am agreeing to it? 🤷🏼‍♀️

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I’m really confused about why you’re going to court. There seems to be no disagreement here, why don’t you just sort this out between the two of you? Why do you have a solicitor?

the court will only make orders on what the parents can’t agree themselves.
if you are worried that ‘sort it out’ means ‘I’ll grab the special days for myself’ you can ask to add on something like
‘child will spend at least all the odd year christmases with mother and they will be made available to dad on even years, unless agreed otherwise by both parties’ and ‘child shall spend Mother’s Day with mother’ are you happy for bday to always be you and to be with dad if it’s on dads weekend?
Make sure you get it written in that child ‘lives with’ you so you can take child abroad on your time without consent from dad.
court have a ‘no order’ principle so they don’t like to make orders about things that parents agree to.

Do you mean that the court has to sign off on this agreement?

Theoretically, sure, if you are both happy with it, there's a good chance the judge will sign off.

However, reading between the lines, I am guessing that contact /divorce etc has been a bit contentious? In which case, no, I would not agree to the "just sort between us" argument he is making. I would come up with a proposal you feel comfortable and send it to him. if he then says no, you would have to tell the court that option 1 (his preference) is that you make birthdays/holidays an ad hoc thing agreed between you and option 2 (your preference) is that you have agreed format for these, albeit you are happy to agree that with mutual agreement thes can be changed and that you prefer this because agreeing contact on an ad hoc basis has previously been quite difficult/contentious/last minute etc.

Do you work,OP? If so, why is it his parenting has to be around his work, but you have to parent whatever?

I’m going to court because this person has been very very awkward in the past and I want things to be sorted and court ordered so he can’t chop and change his mind when he feels like which he has done in the past, which has affected my life because I cannot plan holidays and stuff with the children because then I’m accused of taking our child away from him etc. What I am thinking is if this gets agreed by the judge then I have a little more control as he likes to be on control as such off course I wouldn’t stop contact etc and I’ve never done it but it’s stops him pissing about as such. I went for a living with order because of constant threats In the past of him not returning her and just keeping her but he is saying he doesn’t want her down as living with me and if that continues he will go for full custody and fight me. It’s an extremely long story of the last two years. That’s why I’ve tried to compromise with him and sort an arrangement out between that can be presented to the judge in two weeks.

Hope this makes sense.

this is 100% what I expedcted.

Do not, under any circumstances, agree to a "birthdays, holidays and special occassions to be worked out between us".

Put in writing YOUR proposal. Hopefulyl be agrees. If he refuses, take it to the court anyway. Include a line highlighting that with joint agreement, these arrangements can be changed.

Given your update about him being awkward etc I’d push him for firm answers on things like birthdays, Christmas, holidays/half terms etc and get that firmed up in your agreement to be signed off. If the two of you were capable of “sorting it out” between yourselves then you wouldn’t need to go via a court anyway, so just take the guesswork out. If he can’t commit to it then it needs to be a no, and then at the time if he IS available he can ask you, you can then say yes or no.

I don’t work at the moment I am finding ways to get into university and starting a job. Have been trying to sort that the last year. 😩

It has always been about his job if honest. Even the judge agreed before that he has to work etc blah blah blah.

Ok I will speak to my solicitor about this, she is drafting up a letter of agreement, he has to sign it too before the court hearing. I’m fine with alternative Christmas’s and birthdays I mean he had her last year for those occasions and I said to him this year I would like her for her birthday and Christmas. I just need this sorted because it’s been a draining year with the court cases and I want it to end.

Ok I will speak to my solicitor about this part of the agreement because I just don’t want any issues going forward after this court case if it makes sense.

I woud then include in the proposal that as he had her for last christmas and birthday, the order will start with YOU having her for this christmas and her next birthday, alternating from then on as per whatever schedule you want to suggest.

Remember to consider Christmas overall in terms of the entire week - ie christmas eve, day, boxing day etc.

Also, don't exclude actual hoidays. So think about how you want to arrange school holidays. eg, if you think you might want to take her away, how will that be organised? Under what conditions can you do that over his weekend? Or are you happy to accept that unless he gives permission, the max holiday time you can ever take her away is 12 days. Similarly, if he wants to take her away, what do you conider to be reasonbale - do you want to agree which weeks in advance or that he has to confirm date within a certain timeframe etc etc etc. Be specific. Very very speciific.

Also don't forgett to consider things like your birthday - if it falls on his weekend, is there room to negotiate that motehrs day etc.

I understand a lot more now!

It doesn't matter if a judge would accept it.
YOU should not accept it.
It leaves far too much room for discussions and debate. If leaves you stuck having to communicate every single decision with him.
The smallest detail should be arranged. And if he won't arrange it, then the judge should arrange it for you.

Also, plenty of people, men and women, work while co-parenting their children. My parents both worked full time and has us every other week. Does he - or do you both - think that you can't work on days that you have your children? That sounds absolutely ridiculous. Unless he's doing shift work or has very odd hours. I mean, going from this logic if you have the child every weekday, you can't work at all?

Let's be clear, there is only one of you who benefits from the arrangement as it's drafted right now, and it won't be you. Don't let him do this to you.

OP I am going through something similar, the responses here have been really helpful. My ex has refused to have any conversations in the last 5 years around contact and just says 'they can come to me when the like' not helpful! He has recently left my son here earlier than expected (days earlier!) and not informed me even when my car was not here. I have been to mediation hoping he would attend and have a proper discussion, but he has ignored them completely. Looks like I'm now heading to Court to see if a judge will make an order to set arrangements.
Good luck x

@lifeofasinglewoman I'm a little confused here. You say the judge said he "has to work" but you don't? Hardly seems fair to me.

Hi everyone, thank you for the replies already.

I went for a living with order because I assumed (silly me) that it was basically a care of address and that he couldn’t then actually just keep our child and not return her when I’ve looked into it, I didn’t realise it was more than that, that’s why he is refusing it, he has said to me that he will not allow it and if I go ahead with the living with order which to be honest is what is already happening as he does only see her Friday to Sunday and sometimes extra but that’s only because he’s not working at the moment as when he was working he didn’t have her anymore anyways that he will go for full custody.

So he is basically threatening me and saying unless I drop the living with order he will go for full custody and drag my name through the dirt. So it’s black mail really.

@lifeofasinglewoman But why should father have less time with the children if he is working? Is it right that you have more because you are not?

In that case get it formalised now while the opportunity is there. Keep it simple as possible eg alternating birthdays and Christmas day. There's still nothing preventing you from deviating from thisnon occasion, as long as you both agree.

You may also want to suggest half the school holidays each. He'll probably baulk at that 'because of work', but otherwise it'll be quite challenging for you to work yourself. And he he doesn't want your DC half the school holidays the alternative is that he pays for 50% of holiday childcare.

A lot of nrp's also have their dc for an evening during the week as well, even if not overnight, so consider offering that too (unless distance makes it impractical).

I’ve not said that. He has asked for that he wants just the Friday to Sunday every other weekend as that is all he can commit too as he won’t be able to find a job that will allow him so much time off due to having our child. They was HIS words.

@lifeofasinglewoman So what will it look when when you are working too?

Means I will have to pay child care and rely on that like most single mums have too? 🤷🏼‍♀️ I can’t force him to have her while I work and I know he wouldn’t do that anyways.

Also I will have to try and find a job that works around nursery and school runs too.

I wouldn't be worried about him trying for custody when he can't even commit to parenting for half the holidays. You need to propose what you want and what you think is best for your child e.g alternative Xmas, birthdays, half of school holidays etc