He's leaving the country

[Popandhop]

Really struggling this week!

So BD was 10th July and the first 2 weeks were the hardest. The grief and the fear were overwhelming, but then something happened(with the help and advice i received on here) I realised I was going to be ok.

Ive had to sort mediation, i had to sort the finances, i sort the divorce application. I never wanted this seperation however i have had to be the one to iniate every practical step towords divorcing.

Ive started enjoying being alone with the kids, Ive come to terms with being a single mum and over the past 3months I have been able to find joy and happiness in my life, silly things like reconnecting with old friends, redecorating the house to make it my own little sanctuary, seeing a glimpse at the old me.

But this week he sprang more news on me, hes leaving the country he wants to be able to take the children with him during school holidays and them live with me during term time.

Im now grieving another loss but this time for my children. Since he left they have been able to see him whenever they please, they are teenagers so have that freedom to just pop out and say hi!

But now thats going to be lost, they lose their dad all over again.

Despite everything thats happened between me and him, I cannot fault him as a Dad, as a husband and a dad he had always been present, hands on and helpful would do anything for the kids has always been amazing with them. And it hurts to think now he really isnt going to be around for the important things like my eldest is year 11 and he wont get to see him off to prom or help him pick his outfit.

He see's leaving the country as last resort for him, he has expressed how much he doesn't want to but due to circumstances (consequnces of his own actions) he has ended up losing his job and now homeless, he can't rent anywhere without a job no landlord will touch him so he see's moving in with his mum the only option.

This really has set me back, so much so that I NEARLY offered him to stay on my sofa whilst he looks for work and is back on his feet. Was just a fleeting thought and I am glad I didn't.

If I had I don't know if he would have accepted it anyway, and although the offer would have been purely out of wanting to keep him in the kids lives and not reconcilliation if i had offered and he said no i know it would have felt like a whole new rejection.

Sorry for the long post, but I just needed to vent somewhere away from real life.

Sorry, I can't work out what 'BD' means?

Either way, I understand why you're gutted but it sounds as though he feels it's the only way for now.

Perhaps he'll manage to sort himself out when he stays with his mum and it may only be a short-term thing.

Do the kids know yet?

"If I had I don't know if he would have accepted it anyway, and although the offer would have been purely out of wanting to keep him in the kids lives and not reconcilliation if i had offered and he said no i know it would have felt like a whole new rejection."

Good thing you did not, I made this mistake by moving my ex-w into my home when she had a mental health crisis due to being cheated on, losing her job and mental health crisis. I was emotionally manipulated into getting back together as kids loved the family unit; worst mistake i made in the last 10 years i would say.

Sad for your OP but feel lucky that your kids are much older than most people who are in this situation, a plane is available and I think kids will not lose the connection.

I think you could probably either block his plans, or make him cut back. The Family Court would look at that split with a lot of rigour, because your ex gets all the holiday "fun time" with your DC, while you do the hard graft. It's usual for half the holidays, and alternating Christmases.

But talk to a good family law solicitor. I don't think what he proposes is fair to you or the children.

And whatever you decide, he pays the airfares & transfers for his DC, as well as decent maintenance towards the costs of their upbringing.

i agree with @ParmaVioletTea .

@BingBongBish sorry BD bomb day

@jonathanwoss Yes im glad I didnt, felt stupid that the idea crossed my mind. And if i had offered i think the only reason he would have said yes, would be to try and get his feet back under the table, not because of feelings but because he's in a bad position and it would benefit him for now.

@ParmaVioletTea It's not that I want to block his plans so to speak, but absolutly need to have a proper chat with him about it as yes i want them to have a relationship and see him, but if he had them for all the holidays i will have no chance of building them memories of taking them on holiday and as my eldest is 16 not many family holidays with him left.

Xx

I think that his plan looks all good to him, but what do the children think? If they are teens, they will have exams to think about, revision in the holidays, maybe revision booster sessions as well.

As they get older, their friends also become more important to them.

They're not little children who can be sent off with a suitcase. They need a say in this too.

Despite everything thats happened between me and him, I cannot fault him as a Dad, as a husband and a dad he had always been present, hands on and helpful would do anything for the kids has always been amazing with them.

He's not a great Dad though is he. When my parents marriage imploded in my early teens, my Dad decided to bugger off and take a job out of the country, and basically opt out of parenting for months and months on end.

It felt like an utter slap in the face for me and my brother, and 25 years later my relationship with him is still crap. He basically stopped being Dad in that moment, and since then he's basically like an old friend who shows up every 6 months or so and you hang out with him out of obligation without really knowing why you're bothering.

His plan isn’t realistic. You need to be able to have holidays with the children. They are teenagers and as they get older may need to use those term breaks for various activities of their own. What if a a child wants to get a part-time job or use the summer break to do an internship?

@Satisfiedkitty absolutely, they took the news well when he was explaining to them,

However he did sell it to them pretty well, lots of holidays, seeing his family that they don't see often. Seeing their baby cousins grow up. Places they can go and visit ect ...

Unfortunetly he broke this news to me and them we he came to pick them up so i havent had a chance to sit and talk with them properly.

Bollocks ot that. And frankly, he's not a good dad is he? Reading between the lines, I bet he hasn't been paying child support has he? Just seeing the kids in between, as is convenient (for him)?

So, if he wants to leave the country sure, you will have to acept that some of the holiday time will be spent with him in that country. But hell would freeze over before you should agree to ALL holidays.

Also, what's the plan for these holidays? He'll be living with his mum and, presumably, working, so where will the DC be spending their time? Is her house big enough? Who is goign to pay for these trips overseas - is he going to pay? And is he going to ipay additioal child maintenance in the meantime?

And, ddepending on their ages, will he be travelling to collect them and bring them back?

If they're teenagers, there's not a chance in hell they'll want this. A week in some other country with dad - sure. A full holiday, giving up time with friends, special activities etc? Unlikely.

Also, what's his plan for maintaining a relationship with them whiel he's in this other country? Has he reassured you/them that he'll be available on chat/whatsapp/facetime at regular intervals? Will he be checking in? Does he have plans for this?

@VimesandhisCardboardBoots He hasn't chosen a job over them, he is in a dark place and feels like this is his only option and to be honest i have racked my brains on what other options he has got and other then asking him to move back in here i can't see another way.

However what you have described is what i fear the children will end up feeling like and i do not want them to have a fractured relationship with him.

His plan in his mind is it will be 6months max, once he is living with his mum, finds a job gets savings behind him, and then come back. However I don't see it being that simple as even with savings for deposit landlords will probably still want reassurence he has a job here when he comes back.

I agree with PP’s, why on earth does he think that he’s going to get all the fun times while you put in the hard parenting graft? No court is going to agree with that, although it sounds as if your children are older (mid-teens onwards?) so you probably don’t need a court order at this point.

I’d ask him why he thinks that he should have all the holidays and what about child maintenance, etc.? He needs to deal with the practicalities of being a parent, not have his head on the clouds, oh we’ll all have so much fun.

So he basically wants you to look after the kids whilst you deal with all the drudgery of school, and the kids irritation with getting up HW etc etc
Then he takes them all holiday when they’re calm, and has fun and can be super hero Daddy?

yea no ….. big fat N O in my book

You need and should want half the holiday

Don’t make the mistake of being the one who is always seen at their worst

Sorry, somehow I skipped that paragraph where you described why he was leaving.

I don't think it really changes how it'll affect the kids though. The sheer fact that he's not around regularly, is going to affect their relationship, even with video calling etc.

Where is he moving to?

Where in the UK are you?

Clearly if you live in London & he's moved back to Paris its different to you living in Newcastle and he's in Athens.

If he's lost his job then that takes a bit of doing.

Given the kids ages then really its their choice what they do so long as he can pay.

@JadziaD wow lots of questions i haven't really had time to wrap my head around this situation so lots of things i have not thought about yet!

Thank you, gives me lots to mull over and have ready to put to him when I next speak to him.

@VimesandhisCardboardBoots No worries.

What you said about how you felt is my exact worry! And hearing someone who has experianced it describe how it has affected their relationship is helpful.

At the end of the day, the reason why he is doing it will be less important to the children later down the road then the fact he is not around. They will notice the absence more then the reason why.

I suppose any advice on what could have made your situation and relationship with your dad better may help me and ex navigate handling situations long distance with the children.

He sounds clueless to be honest. I know you’re understandably struggling but please don’t pander to his stupid ideas. And what he’s proposing IS a stupid idea. I’d be fuming that he’d spoken to your children about it before discussing it with you. You’re the resident parent. He doesn’t get to tell you what to do.

@Popandhop I know this has pulled the rug from under you but - nothing has happened yet. The kids probably won’t want to go there all the time for a start. And he’ll have to be in a position to pay for their tickets won’t he? Of course ask questions but I doubt they will go for every holiday, and certainly not all of specific holidays - they are teens with their own friends and lives ans perhaps Saturday jobs soon …?

I absolutly have no plans to agree to all the Holidays.

And looking at your replies it shows that im not being unreasonable in saying that.

I am not having them away over christmas, i know he is saying he wants to be back in 6months, but i dont see that happening realistically.

Im worried if i have them this xmas he will expect them next year, now if he is back in the country thats fine because they are close enough i could still see them around the xmas holidays, just means they with him xmas day, however if he is still away i do not want them going does that sound unfair? I no its selfishness on my part but xmas is my favourite time of year and not seeing them over it would be really difficult.

I think probably the best bit of advice I can give is that he can't effectively parent from another country, and that he will need to accept that when he is around, he's not going to suddenly become the most important thing in his kids lives.

My Dad had this expectation that just because he'd taken himself out of the equation, that I should drop everything when he was around. So he'd phone when I was on my way out of the door, and then get the huff when I wouldn't talk to him because I'd miss my bus if I did. Or he'd be back for the week, and I was expected to drop whatever plans I had to spend time with him.

Or he'd be annoyed that I wasn't ecstatically grateful for a "holiday" when I'd been dragged out to the arse end of nowhere and left to my own devices all day while he worked.

And then he'd try and parent me from a distance, like telling me I needed to do more revision, when he could have absolutely no possible idea how much work I was doing. My Mum certainly wasn't feeding him information, so he was just assuming I was being a lazy fucker. (Don't get me wrong, I was, but he had no way of knowing that)

Your ex will need to try and be as present a parent as he can be, while accepting that he doesn't get to dictate terms. He will need to meet his kids on their level, work around their schedule, and accept it if their relationship suffers as a result. He's choosing to become a peripheral figure in their lives, that's on him, not them.

Had my Dad done that, then yes, our relationship probably still would have suffered in the short term, but would probably be better now, 20 years later.

I agree @HundredMilesAnHour, he does sound clueless. Also as @Ohnobackagain, how’s he going to pay for all the tickets as he’s getting back on his financial feet?

Does your ex-husband have a job to go to abroad, or any likelihood of getting one? If not, how does he expect to 'get back on his feet' and how does he propose to support his children when they visit, or pay for their airfares?

As I read this more and think about it, i have more questions. You say that he doesn' thave work through his own fault? Is this a pattern? Realistically, what are the chances that things will magically get better when he returns to his country?

if he does get work, does he have a history of effectively saving and will he be in a country where he can save enough to come back?

Assuming he has the right to live in this country, has he looked into what benefits he might be entitled to to allow him to stay? Assuming he has that right, and has been working and paying his taxes etc, he should be eligible for some benefits and the UK's basic principle would be to try to help him to remain part of his children's lives (albeit he wouldn't be getting housing etc necessarily if he isn't having them).

The question really is: Is he a genuinely good dad or, more likely, more of a lovely uncle figure? There for the fun times, maybe some advice and the odd bit of practical sypport, but no responsibility or accountability. I have'nt read your earlier threads so I don't know but my guess is he just got up and left one day or had a mental health breakdown and left and you've been left picking up the pieces ever since? I'd also be fascinated to know what he's actually done to TRY and find a job in this country as it sounds like he's lost hi sjob and then just thrown up his hands and gone, "nah, that's it, it's too hard, I'm off."

I'm afraid I'm not really buying the MH issues either. If you split all parents into four group s- women with reported MH problems, women without MH, men with reported MH and men without MH problems and then looked at the group of parents (male or female) who just disappear and/or refuse to take responsibilty/accountability for their children, I think you'll find that amazingly, the vast bulk are in the Men with Reported MH problems group. And cynically, having met a number of men with real MH problems, I can tell you anecdotally that those ones often continue to do their best to be good parents, even as they struggle with their MH.

So he’s going to mooch off his mum? Does she even have room for them all?

I’d agree to him having a week of the Christmas holidays (after Christmas until back at school), then review next year.