I feel like I've sold out my daughter to my mother

[Moiin]

My daughter is 4.

I've always had a difficult relationship with my own mother, emotional abuse in childhood, some getting physical towards me in my late teens. My father is Emotionally constipated, I just get anger or indifference.
However with illness in the family and various things I did end up feeling close to my parents throughout my twenties and felt like I had the tools to deal with them. They were challenging at times but it was manageable, we only really fell out every few years. They did DIY badly on our house for example without asking so we had to hold boundaries with them for a bit.

When I had DD they were very practically helpful. Never emotionally- I know better than that now! They looked after her 2 days a week while I worked up until this summer and her starting reception.

Over time things went from lovely if a little overbearing to in the last 6 months just really boundary stomping. They stopped talking to me for a while when I tried to talk to them about this.

We are talking again but I'm still so so hurt by it all. What's even worse is my daughter demands to see them, says she doesn't want to do things with me and wants them instead. I have kept up her seeing them for my DD's sake. I try so so hard to be so gentle with her and the mother I wish I had. And yet I'm rejected and she wants my mum. I'm utterly devastated. I feel like I sold her out to them and in many ways I've already lost her emotionally. I wish I could cut my parents off but I'm afraid my DD would hate me more. I am so full of regret but genuinely at the time she was born they said all the right things and were so helpful. I have no idea where to go from here. I feel like an utter failure and like the problem was always me.

Please be gentle but I'd be grateful for any wisdom.

She’s only 4, they all go through phases like this of preferring other people. Don’t read too deeply into it! If your parents are acting the maggot just don’t see them and go to the playground instead with her.

I’m afraid I don’t have much advice on the bigger picture. However, please try not to worry about your dd wanting to do things with the grandparents when you are offering to do them with her. Children of this age can want to do more with people they see less often. My own ds is very emotionally attached to his grandmother and often wants to see her, have cuddles, spend time with her instead of me. It can be incredibly hurtful as I also have somewhat complicated circumstances, but I remind myself that I am his constant and his safe person- he can be rude to me and reject me and now I’ll always still be there for him (which is a sign of secure attachment that he feel safe enough to do so).

Also, at 4, you certainly have not emotionally lost her. I was in very difficult circumstances when my child was 4 and I realised I had become emotionally distanced with him. He’s now nearly 7 and we are very much bonded and have a great relationship. I’m sure things with you and your dd are fine in reality, but just remember this is a phase, things can change.

of course your DD still loves you and wants you. She is just testing this and making sure you are always there, so be loving and consistent and she will stick with you.

I noticed the phrase 'I try so hard to be so gentle with her' - do you mean the kind of gentle parenting where you explain everything and don't say no? For some kids, that doesn't suit them and they actually prefer clear boundaries. Do read up a little on the limitations of over-gentle parenting because it can leave a child confused rather than confident.

I would say we talk about feelings but I'm also pretty clear on where the line is.
DD says things occasionally like 'you will be cross and tell me off' . She reacts badly even though I'm calm and never shout, she tells me I'm rude and not being kind.

This is over stuff though like running off or purposely throwing things on the floor.

OP your daughter is 4 - you are the adult and the one in charge. Don't allow her demands to overrule your decisions. Have the confidence to make the rules and stick to them - it's great that you're gentle and don't shout etc but you still need to be firm and stick to your guns when necessary.

Please don't be upset that your daughter wants her grandparents - this is entirely normal. Grandparents have free rein to be the ones to indulge their grandchildren and don't tend to enforce the rules like parents have to. Their love and attention is unconditional and it's an important relationship from the child's point of view - most children love spending time with their Grandparents. It's not a rejection of you - you are her constant and you are there to parent her, not just indulge her.

Your DD is 4, you get to choose who she does and doesn't spend time with
If you think its unhealthy for her to be around your parents then you need to enforce that.

She is 4 . Just tell her your parents are busy. Or maybe next week. She will stop asking and get used to a new routine with you.
Its just because her routine included spending 2 days a week with them. Which is a lot to kids.
I bet they spoilt her with whatever she wanted. Grandparents are great at giving in to kids and so they do become favourites.
Just build up your bond. Thats what's important longterm .

Bit ridiculous that your parents gave you so much practical help- 2 days a week is a LOT- and you now complain you didn"t get any emotional help as well.
I am not big on talking about feelings and new age parenting myself. Find it tedious and counter productive. They probably find you challenging too.

If you want to parent entirely your own way, get childcare. It's very normal for kids to prefer GPs.

Your mother has spent four years basically grooming your child op. You know your parents are abusive and yet you have allowed them so much time with your child.

They are not going to magically improve. They are what they are.

I would brush off your child’s request to see her grandparents and tell her they are busy, and stop seeing them. You need to protect your child op. Your mother is not a different person just because she is a gp.

You need counselling to discuss and unpick your own childhood, and protect your child in the meantime.

Well I missed the physical abuse of ypu. so why let them have her at all?

This is why

They still have hope, even against their experience to the contrary, that the abusive parents will somehow behave better this time around with their child. It's a scenario that gets played out again and again. What often happens is the above and in addition OP now has the task of having to detach her child from them. OPs parents remain abusive and have not changed. It is NOT OPs fault her parents are like this and she did not make them that way. Their own families did that lot of damage to them.

OPs boundaries are also skewed due to abuse from her parents and she needs to address this in therapy.

OP needs to do what no-one sadly bothered to do for her i.e. protect her child from such malign influences now. And your child needs firm and consistent boundaries.

Exactly. We all hope to have a loving family, but it will never happen. Unless OP’s parents have had extensive professional intervention they will be using exactly the same abusive techniques on OP’s dd. They are lining up the next cycle and generation.

It's a phase. It will pass. She will soon get absorbed in school, you'll be the one helping her with homework and going to parents evenings and nativity plays.

You have the Christmas holidays coming up. Can you take some annual leave and spend a lovely Christmas together, making mince pies & icing gingerbread men, and going to the local Christmas markets, just the two of you. Share decorating the tree, and take her to a pantomime.

The thing is you have to do the difficult things and say no quite often, but the GPs can just do the nice things and very rarely have to say no. I would gradually reduce the time she spends with them if it's becoming a problem rather than a bit of spoiling.

If your parents do your head in and are difficult to deal with, you are an adult and you can see a lot less of them. They will have less influence over you. The more they do your head in, the less you see of them.

Your DD may want to see GM because Reception is a big deal and school is a big deal and she may miss being cosy at home with full attention.

It doesn't mean you have rush around to DM's every time she says it. And no need to keep explaining why you don't want to go there. You could start making the meetings with DM on your terms. When you want them to happen, in neutral places, eg a cafe in a park where dd can run about or take DD to cinema with DM. And you are there. And the visit doesn't have to be all day. But DD still gets a bit of grandma time as she did when she was little. So in a way, renegotiate your relationship with your mum so that you can avoid some of the difficult behaviour and encourage the better bits.

Maybe start taking your DD on some "adventures" of your own with her. make them special outings, not expensive, just doing things together. and just sometimes having cosy, relaxing time indoors, occasionally, maybe doing some baking, or play dough together, like she would have had pre reception.

Also on that note, you are the adult in charge of your household. Decide now how Christmas would best work for you and for DD and speak up. This is your time when you get to be mother to your DD. You don't have to keep complying with difficult rules you grew up with.

(not saying you don't already do these things with DD, just examples, you may well already have your own routines)

ps.. just read where you say your parents cross boundaries and when you stick to your boundaries they stop talking to you.
That is very simple to deal with. If they stop talking to you let them!

I've experienced people who do that , and you are supposed to come running back being contrite and giving in to their demands. It's very controlling and unkind and you don't want them behaving like that to your DD. If they take offence and won't talk - its their loss and they've made it even easier for you to stick to your boundaries.

Reduce contact now and remember she will be at school soon and then it will drastically drop.

Each time your DD says she wants her grandparents just calmly repeat that they aren’t here or available right now. Eventually, especially without the contact, it will stop.

Yes, exactly this. My mother often stops talking to me for whatever her perceived issue is. However, it happens less often now that she has realised I just leave her to her strop and do nothing to make amends.

I am relieved to see this response after reading the first few. I recognise this scenario and agree with this approach.

Op you're the parent here. This defeatist attitude you're taking is really just you repeating old patterns where you know they won't change so you feel powerless against them - but really all you're doing is giving over the power you do have to them.

It's normal and natural for a child of that age to want to spend time with grandparents but given the history here I'd be worried that they've been undermining you when you aren't there and are now affecting your relationship with your child. You need to step up here and put the foot down. Sure your dd will miss them - children of abusive parents do miss them but it doesn't mean they're safe to be around. As the parent YOU decide who's appropriate for your child to spend time with, in what context and for how long. And if you decide that someone is not safe or appropriate then you need to explain that in an age appropriate way to your child while holding your boundary. She can demand it, she can be upset about it, but at the end of the day she's still only 4 and you are the adult.

I think you need to maybe look at counselling for yourself to try and properly identify these patterns you've been living under so you can break them for yourself.

My son was having similar issues and I increased his childcare and reduced the amount of time spent with his grandparents. He gradually got used to it and I reassess this to see if the boundary is working or needs adapted as he gets older.

She’s only 4, I partly think you’re panicking a bit because of the past, understandably - it’s normal for dc that age to assert themselves, apply the new rules theyve heard by telling people they’re rude/mean/shouting/they prefer the person that’ll give in etc - all classic kid tactics learned at nursery etc to get what they want.

if she’s started reception, your p are naturally seeing her less aren’t they?

counselling is a good idea, especially for the boundary setting but wrt what your dd is saying, I’d under-react to it, it sounds to me like an intelligent 4 year old trying to maximise outcomes and quite normal.

I know you have history but I’d work through it carefully with a counsellor in this area before I cut contact with your p becasue your dd is close to them. Childhood is long, nobody’s sold or lost anything here it’s all fixable. Talk yourself down a bit, you’ll always be the main person.

With this background of emotional abuse of you I wouldn’t leave DD unsupervised with them, at all. I would always be present when they saw her.

Agreed, don't give them a chance to start the old parental alienation tricks on your daughter. They are abusive and for your child's sake, it's best to start limiting contact. Bad parents don't miraculously become good grandparents.

The problem with this is that the emotional harm to her dd will then be done right in front of ops very eyes. It can be a look , a pinch etc.

Given that op herself was abused by her mother as a child with her dad not seemingly doing anything to prevent this (he’s her enabler) then op should not see her parents at all. They have not changed . Why should they now have any form of contact also with op’s most precious resource ie her child?.

Well one reason that leaps out - the practical support has been helpful, the dd has spent a good chunk of time with them and it sounds as though op has no other support whatsoever to rely on?

i’d want real life support (both practical and psychological) before i cut my parents out of my dd’s life when they’re so involved, to make sure I was doing the right thing for my dd.