Codependent mother advice

[codependantmother]

I'm Looking for advice on a situation that’s been going on for a long time. My mum is 71, divorced from my dad since I was young. I’ve one sibling but it seems the problem is only with me.

my mum has always been very attached to me. Not so much as a teen as she had a long term partner but it all escalated when they broke up, 15 years ago.

she has always been emotionally reliant on me. I remember clearly when she would argue with her partner, she always involved me in it. Also was very emotional when I was a teen so she was up and down. Not frequently but when she was down she would cry a lot and we had to walk on eggshells a bit around her. She had great points too. Was always there for me and very loving But was too attached so for example when I told her I wanted to travel when I was about 20 she got so upset and wouldn’t talk about it that I made the decision not to go. Or if partner and her had a fight she would make rash decisions like burst into my room telling me in tears she was leaving him and we were selling the house only for them to have made up a day later. Or another time, when they were breaking up she would ring me crying asking me to speak to him!

she is a very jealous person in relationships which she has told me. Also very insecure, when in relationships she would need a lot of reassurance that they still loved her etc.

just for background she also still so angry with my dad who had an affair and gets jealous when I see him.

anyway the main problem is that now she demands so much of my time. She lives 5 mins from me. I used to have to see her everyday or she would ring saying she missed me so much. I went to a counsellor when things were bad last year to gain boundaries and stretched the visits out to 34 times a week. She always wants to meet in coffee shops so I’d meet her for lunch or go shopping etc. I’m always at the end of the phone when she needs something.

she is 70 now and has mobility issues due to muscle weakness. She has had scans, X-rays to confirm this and every doc has said to her that she needs physio and exercise but she won’t do it. She hasn’t walked or exercised in years which I think contributes the the muscle breakdown. She has severe health anxiety and spends her evenings googling illnesses so every week thinks it’s a different illness and will obsess over it and when I try to reassure her that it’s muscle weakness, she gets really defensive and says I don’t care about her.

i work shift work and do long hours/nights. When I finish nights, I could have up to 5-6 texts from her when I wake trying to meet me and telling me how much she misses me. This week I only did 4 night shifts and saw her on day I started and still had the texts claiming she misses me. I’m so resentful yet don’t have the balls to stand up to her and ask for space.

if she is down, she blames me for her unhappiness saying that she is lonely but there’s anger towards me.

my sibling is able to brush this off and doesn’t carry the guilt like I do. She is worse with me though. I feel sick when I can’t see her and I’m racked with guilt despite seeing her 3-4 times a week plus texts every day.

i feel so smothered I could scream! I want to say something to her but honestly feel panicky even thinking about it. My councellor didn’t really understand me when I couldn’t confront her but this is years of guilt trips. Even now she will tell stories of christmases when we were kids saying she would just cry when we were gone to bed or cry the whole time we were at my dads.

has anyone been through this or understand how I can’t confront her.

I have said it to her in anger a couple of times where I just snapped and broke but she doesn’t change. She says she doesn’t put pressure on me but if I have a busy week and can’t see her she will lay it on me either upset or angry.

she does have health issues so I feel awful. She has friends so does go out every day, it’s not like she is stuck in on her own but she wants me. Even if she has plans and I ring her she will say things like ‘I’ll cancel because I’d rather be with you’ which again makes me feel so fucking smothered!!!

Just reread my text, when I say she hasn’t walk in years I mean she hasn’t gone for a walk. She can walk, just has a walking stick now and shuffles along.

also I said she cried every Christmas, I wasn’t at my dads, we were always with her and family. We had one Christmas alone so I understand the upset over that but every other Christmas we would stay with family.

Boundaries. Boundaries. Boundaries! Decide what you can do and would genuinely like to do to support your mother, who you obviously care for, but other than that, be consistent with your boundaries. You cannot change her, but you can work on your guilt and need for her approval. I've had to do this. Not easy, and it will take time, but it can be done. Good luck!

It sounds absolutely hellish for you OP.
It sounds as though you have no life of your own.

Tbh I think You are at the point where you really need to take drastic measures. Is there any possibility of you moving home away from the area your mother lives? I honestly think you should do that. And actually consider goung nc with her?
I know she is in her 70s - as I am myself- but you can't let her continue to destroy your life. If she then still refuses to be the adult in her own life then perhaps your sibling will have to shoulder some of the burden that has been yours for so long.

OP I feel so much empathy for you, my mom was also a clinger. I call it 'the tyranny of the weak'. It would be so much easier to stand up to overt bullying - if they shouted or hit you physically you would shout back or defend yourself. But like a clinging vine they infiltrate your thoughts and feelings and its the emotional power of tears, guilt tripping and the constant dependence on you for their happiness and peace of mind thats so crippling. It is incredibly debilitating but people who havent been subjected to it dont always understand just how much it undermines your strength of will and independence (hence your therapsts inability to guide you through a way to deal with it).

My advice is keep it simple. Get comfortable with being 'the bad guy'. Understand that that awful feeling of being a terrible person is actually just the conditioning at work to keep you in thrall to the powerful person who wants you to be at her beck and call and make up for all the deficiencies and failings in their life. Say every day - out loud so you hear it and start to believe it - i am in independent person. I have a right to my own life and my own happiness and autonomy. Set simple but very clear rules with your mother - I am willing to see you four days a week, but not seven. On the days I dont see you, I will message you. Start slowly and go from there. I am willing to help you with your health matters, but if you wont listen to medical advice or do anything to help yourself, then Im not willing to be depressed and dragged down by your complaints and learned helplessness. I am willing to talk about the past, but I will not take responsibility for your experience of it, If you were crying, why? Why didnt you do something to make yourself happier, more active, more independent? What are YOU doing to improve your health / boredom / happiness / activity???

You get the picture. And every day remind yourself that doing saying and thinking these things is an act of love to yourself.

I don’t think you need to have a confrontation or any kind of showdown. Just ignore all her wining texts and tell her when you will next see her. Just be to the point and not engage with all of her complaining.

Zone it out. She will learn. She only does it coz she knows it gets her what she wants. You need to change how you deal with her because it doesn’t suit her to. Good luck.

The things discussed in counselling last year are still relevant. Can you remember the advice or return for another session to help your resolve?

You know that your mum isn't helping herself, and she doesn't want to take responsibility for her own decisions. If she won't follow advice from physiotherapy then the consequences fall on her, you don't need to step in.
If she's bored and lonely it's not for you to fill her days, there are plenty of other options that other people her age will do. There are lots of widows and single people her age who don't see their children even weekly.
You are used to stepping in. Take a leaf from your sibling's book. It's not easy but you're the only one who can say "no". Nobody else can do it for you.

Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm

@Itsanewlifei know I need to reset my boundaries. It’s so difficult as the guilt just eats me up. In the few arguments we have had over it she will say ‘that’s YOUR guilt, it’s not me making you guilty’ which makes me feel like I owe her this and I feel guilty because I’ve let her down.

@Whenthetimeisright I can’t move away. I grew up here and love it. My husband also from area. My kids are all teens and settled. We talked about moving away when kids were younger and she just made it all about her saying I’ll be going with yous! But ultimately we don’t want to move asove the area and our jobs etc

@Lobelia123that is such amazing advice. What you’ve said is so relatable. I sometimes wish she was abusive so I could answer her back. I’m going to do exactly as you say and get a journal and write it out each day. If I have something on at weekend I always ‘have’ to keep other day free but a friend said to me recently ‘you are entitled to a weekend to yourself’ it’s so simple but it’s like I never even thought about it that’ way. It’s like she thinks she is the most important person in my life and my husband and kids come second. Some weeks it’s fine and the visits are ok but then if I’m busy it’s just too much pressure. I generally do 7nights in a row and work in a job where I give a lot emotionally and to wake up after 7 nights to her 4-5 texts asking again and again what time I’ll be awake and that’s she waiting on me just makes me explode! I also haven’t seen my kids or husband for the week and want to just relax with them never mind do the practical things like shopping catch up on house.

Have you tried telling her about your work pressures, needing time to see your kids and husband, and to do things at home? What does she say? Your needs and priorities are so so reasonable, that surely she must be able to see through the fog of her own needs/insecurities and show a glimmer of understanding?? Like others have also said, perhaps tell her you will visit her X times (whatever works for you) and will call her Y times a week but outside of that unless it is an emergency she needs to back off and let you get on with your very demanding life.

Some excellent advice on this thread. It’s really, really hard to get past the guilt but you have to keep working on it. You know what is a reasonable level of contact - stick to it. Learning to ignore the bombardment is hard work but incredibly liberating when you’ve mastered it. I often curse the invention of the mobile phone 😩

Guilt means you have done something wrong. You haven't committed a crime. You haven't been mean to your mom. You have nothing to feel guilty about.

She's conditioned you over your lifetime to feel guilty when you don't meet her needs. That's not a crime. Meeting her needs is up to her, not you. She's made herself weak and more helpless by not following the physio plan. That's on her.

I think you're deep in the fog of fear, obligation, and guilt. Read up on that.

Your mom is extreme enough you might have to move to get some distance from her. Your life takes priority over hers. That's normal.

Thank you so much for all the advice on here. It’s been really helpful. I think my work needs to be like you say on dealing with my own guilt. Changing the narrative in my head. I will 100% book back into therapy as that did help. She initially just listened to me, she actually commented that it was one of the most intense mother daughter relationships she had ever dealt with 🫣

my mum is well at the moment but if anything happens even a head cold. I am expected to drop everything and rally around her until she is well…recently she broke her arm and rang me one morning saying she needed help getting changed on and tea and toast made. I offered to send my son up to do this as he was off school and I was on the way to hairdressers to get my highlights done. She was really upset saying she didn’t want him helping her get changed and could I not change my hair apt as she is ‘disabled’. Really angry tone as that’s the way she is when down/sick. It’s like she blames me for her not feeling good, not sure why. Anyway I like a feckin idiot cancelled my hair and went up. When I got there she had managed to get dressed and all I had to do was make tea and toast which she could have done. She went straight to bed and I went home having missed my apt. This also involved an 60 min walk as I had no car that day. Not even a thank you, she just went back to bed and I went home. When I say that out loud it sounds insane…

another time she had a cough. She rang me saying she needed her prescription collected asap. I had planned on sorting my own house out that day and was trying to be strong and said can you just send me picture so I don’t have to walk to your house, back to chemist and back up to her (prob a 1hr and half journey as again had no car that day). She said prescription was in her kitchen, it’s an apt so just down hall. She didn’t have the energy. I stayed strong and said well when you find the energy go take a picture of it and I’ll do it then (still an hour round journey). Eventually guilt got the better of me and I went as she had implied it was a prescription for antibiotic and I knew she needed them. I got there, the prescription was for her normal medication and wasn’t actually needed that day. No apology. I still went and got them, why does she do that to me 😢

she is not always like this, the anger comes when she is down.

as I said in original post I work nights this weekend and had texts saying she missed me etc I met her Monday even though I had to drag myself out of bed early to do so. Saw her, yesterday I had a course in work all day then worked another night shift somewhere else. She text me upset that I wouldn’t make my nephews birthday cake, I had only been invited that day and course already booked. I told her I was too busy with course etc and wouldn’t be home until late then have to work. She then text again in the evening ask could she call in as internet banking not working and she needed a hand, I held strong and said no I’ll do it tomorrow. Anyway then this morning another text asking what I’m doing today and that she felt she was hounding me (you are!) I said I’ve had a busy morning and need to sleep after night shift but will call her when I wake. I then have a text about 2 hours later telling me her whereabouts for when I wake, I was asleep so no reply, then another text an hour later telling me of new whereabouts for then I wake and just now another one with new whereabouts!!!! I feel so smothered!!!

but I need to just take the posters advice to say to ignore these texts as they cause me so much anger!!!

the only thing I find hard with the therapist is as I said she doesn’t really get why I can’t just say things out straight to her. She will help me but she doesn’t understand this is years of conditioning. My sons say I have a different voice around my mam 😂 I’m tense

Your mum sounds almost pathologically selfish and manipulative. It's all about what she needs and what she wants. She doesn't see you as a separate person from her with a job and a family and a life, she just sees you as someone whose sole purpose is to fulfill her needs. She isn't grateful because she doesn't see this as you doing her a favour and being kind. She sees the sort of service you provide as her right and she thinks that she is massively more important than your husband, your children and your job.

Every single time you have tried to push back a little and say no, you end up caving in and she gets her own way yet again. Her emergencies aren't really emergencies at all. You need to start getting angry about how badly she treats you. It sounds as though you were parentified from a young age and you are stuck in that mindset.

She has friends and another adult child so if you pull back, she wouldn't be on her own.

@thepariscrimefiles it’s interesting because I always would have said she would do anything for us like when kids were younger she would mind them at the drop of a hat but interestingly, she’s not keen to babysit anymore because it doesn’t serve her, my kids are older so always out with friends. So it might be just a case of having someone here so my 11yr old has someone home. I very rarely ask her, but it’s just interesting I would have always said she would do anything for us when actually I think she was only ticking her own box spending time with my kids. Sorry I hope I’ve explained that right.

after all the texts all day today, I rang her and she had arranged to meet a friend and said she would see me tomorrow. She sounded a bit frosty so I’d say she’s annoyed that I left her waiting for me to wake up even though I told her I’d ring her when I woke and didn’t set a time.

Sorry know im going on about it now but actually thinking back on the incident where she made me cancel my hair apt. I had actually rang her first thing that morning to offer to go and help her. I said I had hair apt at 10am so if she needs anything let me know now to give me enough time. I was on the way to hairdressers when she rang so she originally told me she didn’t need anything then waited until just before my apt to say actually she did need me

She will get it but it's not true you can't , you are choosing not to, beacuse of the grooming to be her emotional support animal but it is a choice, that will be what she means.

At the moment you are caving because you don't like the sicky horrid feeling of guilt, but it's not real, it is a feeling that you are generating - it won't kill you to not give into it so, in therapy speak, sit with the guilt. It will get easier I promise as someone who has had to do the same. I worried about mine every single day, I can now go days without her even crossing my mind. I was horrendously enmeshed - she had an affair when I was in my thirties, when the bloke called it off she just had me there night after night whilst she sobbed to me , not considering for a minute that it was my dad she had been unfaithful to and I may be upset - I now think ffs why didn;t you just leave her to her own devices and not spend hours comforting her - well because from day 1 she had groomed me to feel sorry for her and treated me as her spouse. Mine doesn't have friends really and I am an only child.

Have you read Emotionally Immature parents by Lindsay Gibson - there's also one on enmeshment/covert incest which I can't just remember the title of.

Also, you'll be trauma bonded to her and to the behaviour so be prepared for the really perverse feeling of missing the drama and getting in touch just so you prove how awful she is and you can rant about her - that's a bit of a head mangler I found.

It's great you are recognising this stuff and how it triggers you but look at reframing it, she didn't make you cancel the hairdressers appointment, you went into fawn/people pleaser mode and the thought of displeasing her was too much or you wanted to please her rather than put yourself first. This is understandable but start to recognise what is happening, at first you won't realise til after but the goal is to recognise you are about to do it in the moment and not do it. So, presented with a problem by your mum you say - oh that sounds rough what are you going to do - rather than think it is yours to fix.

My friend had this with her mother and similarly her sister was left alone, her sister gave her great advice a while back that the friend has really incorporated recently. The sister said that she decided years ago that even if she were to devote every minute of every day to keeping her mother happy her mother would never be happy. These types never are. There is an endless void inside of them that they simply can never fill.

Her sister said from that moment forward she decided that since she was never going to make her mother happy that from that moment on she was going to live her own life going forward and not even try to please her mother.

She has done that and her behaving that way in their dynamic means that the relationship was night and day compared to her sister’s relationship with their mother.

Because this person has taught their mother over a long time that she will not be the person trying to keep her happy her mother responds differently with her.

My friend has been operating with a decent amount of success from the same mindset. You guessed it their mother is still very unhappy but now they are both happier.

Have you read Emotionally Immature parents by Lindsay Gibson

This book is a MUST read!! I had so many “AHa!!” Moments reading it, everything with my mum fell into place. Knowledge is power, once you understand it all you can deal with it much better and you won’t feel so guilty.

You have to find a way to be okay with her sulking/being cold/frosty. That is an essential stepping stone to some degree of escape from this situation. Don't feel like you need to bend over backwards and explain yourself to get back in her good books. Just remember being in her good books is draining the soul out of you. The frostier she is the less she will ask of you. Simple. I've been there.

I actually downloaded that the other day! Only just started it. I’ll defo get stuck in tomorrow.

How do I live with the guilt? I have a knot in my stomach when she is annoyed. It’s so difficult. Even if I ring her and she doesn’t answer, I can’t think about anything else until she rings me because I assume she’s pissed off over something.

it would be so much easier if she was abusive and mean to me. She gets annoyed with my brother but it just washes over him. I then get angry with him as he doesn’t ‘help’ me with her but having thought about it I’m envious that he gets away with it all and nothing bothers him. She’s just a really difficult person. She’s fallen out with friends and is always annoyed with my sister in law. Always not picking at everything she says.

Baby steps. Observe that feeling (the knot in your stomach) distance yourself from it. Do a yoga class. Try meditation. And, let the feeling go at the end of it. Give yourself little goals - ignore the message for 12 hours, 24 hours etc. You have learn to live with the discomfort until it stops. That is the only way! I have been there. I still have my moments. I have to take a lot of deep breaths. It does get better and life opens up!

p.s. take a leaf out of your brother's book!

@Itsanewlifedefinitely need to take a leaf out of my brothers book!

I really feel for you. I feel smothered and suffocated on your behalf, just reading your post. It is awful and no way to live.
I think genuinely that you should tell her you will not see her until she has arranged and attended several psychotherapy /counselling sessions
She is being deeply, deeply selfish and unfair to you, her child. Parents should want their children to enjoy their life. And I think you also need to try again with a counsellor to break through the feelings of guilt and start enforcing boundaries.
The present situation is no way for you (or her) to live. My MIL is like this though not even as bad as that and it has had such a deep and detrimental impact on DP and on my life that it is impossible to list all the ways.