Dealing with an unclean man

[SofiaJessica4]

I'm a 39F and neurodivergent. I've been in a LDR with a guy in the U.S. for a year now (I'm in the U.K) who is a bit younger than me (33) and diagnosed autistic. He is high functioning, in that he has a complex professional job in software development, lives alone, etc.

We get on really well, have a lot of shared values, hes intelligent, kind and hardworking. Although I wouldn't normally be interested in a LDR, it's been OK so far especially as I can work remotely and travel.

I've just been out to see him for a month - my longest trip so far - and have had a rude awakening with his household management skills.

I'm posting this as I've not actually had to deal with this before as previous partners for the most part have been very competent - more than me, and I'm confused by it, and second guessing myself

He knows it's important to me that things are 50/50. I have a professional job, my own home, and I like a comfortable, clean environment. I would be the breadwinner if he moves out to be with me, which has been the plan so far. I don't expect him to be perfect, but I do have an idea of the 'average' cleaning a competent man will do if he intends to contribute.

He said he intended to make a big effort to ensure sure his place was in a good state when I came out, and tried to prepare for my visit.

When I arrive, I found things.... weren't great. I spent 45 mins cleaning his bathroom the day after I arrived as it hadn't been done properly - the bottom half of the toilet may not have been cleaned in a month, and was pretty gross, there was dust all over the shower, piles of dust in the corners of the bathroom, etc. He also had new black towels which had created black fluff all over the bathroom.

I told him it upset me, and he said he'd do better, but by the end of the trip I'd spent another few hours cleaning the rest of his house, mostly on my own, as he 'forgot'. The one time he did clean the bathroom in his apartment I had to re-do some of it as it hadn't been done properly. I was wfh in his place while he was out and I just wasn't comfortable in an unclean environment. It's surprised me, as my previous partners were mostly very competent, better able than me at doing stuff, made my life easier etc.

Another example - he used a fan every night that was literally black from being covered in dust. He cleaned that as I insisted.

I also cooked most of the time I was there as I don't trust his cooking. His food is great but he uses a lot of oil when cooking and doesn't make vegetables so it didn't feel healthy.

For his birthday I planned a big thing for him, during our trip to Mexico. On my birthday he got the logistics wrong for travel in his area so we ended up driving for literally 7 hours, with no free time to spend together. This guy was in the military for years, it blows my mind.

He only had one set of sheets, and 3 forks, and no decent pans. I bought him 2 new pans to cook with as the others were so old / gross.

When he visited me he cleaned the kitchen every night and put the bins out, did all the washing up without asking. It gave me the impression he was very capable.

Writing it all down upsets me. I feel like his mom.

I now feel if he moves to the UK to live with me that I'll either have to do everything, or micromanage him. He's said just teach him and he'll do what I say... but that is a lot with a 33 year old man. Yes I could get a cleaner as friends have said, but I also feel I have to carry the mental load - I can't trust him to organise a birthday party for example. Everyone finds him to be a really kind, lovely man, and he is. But this can't be normal? Should I be accepting this?

I don't believe you should expect anyone to change. It's hard to ascertain if it's a lack of knowledge or a lack of care. I know plenty of women have been through this, there's also the autism angle. I'm beyond frustrated!

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius thanks this is what I think. I learned to clean properly when I wanted to, and was ready, with instagram and youtube videos. Before I was motivated I would not have been interested to do that... so I do question how much anyone is actually going to be willing to learn for someone else's benefit. If he wanted to be different he'd need to do it for himself, but maybe I'm wrong

Honestly just end it. Move on.

At 33 and living alone he shouldnt need someone to tell him how to clean his bathroom.

Saying oh well if you tell me I will do it makes it your responsibility to train him, and your fault when he fails.

You dont need this! You deserve better.

Definitely do not live with him if he was in the military I would have thought he would be ocd the fact he let you clean his place as a guest would be a red flag he should have done it. Do you know how exhausting it is telling a grown man what to do. No no no. Don’t do it.

He obviously CAN do it as he’s evidenced that. He chooses not to in his own home. I’d feel uncomfortable with his level of tolerance re this - not unlike my partner tbh. This is the reason I won’t have him move in with me. Personal hygiene is excellent: environmental hygiene is alot to be be desired. No way am I setting myself up to be his mother. Been there; done that.

He would be coming to live with her she wrote.

I feel for this guy but at the same time why should you put up with this deficit

I mean if you really love him and can afford a cleaner then why not?

How comes he can just simply move here tho?

Also if he’s so smart will he be able to get a well paid job so he can pay towards the cleaner?

I don't think there's nothing wrong with him, problem is both of you have different "standards" of everything (cooking, diet, cleanliness and organisation). No one is in the wrong. This guy is perfectly fine having three forks (I have 4!) and a dirty bathroom while you're not. Doesn't sound like you're too compatible so a transatlantic move is a risky one (specially for him as he's the one moving here).

I wouldn't leave my job and change continent to be with you as you sound a bit of a clean and control freak but maybe he's in love and a hopeless romantic so he'll do it.

Some negotiation and work on both sides will be needed to make this work, possibly hiring a cleaning lady.

my concern is if we live together I'll have to do everything, while also being the breadwinner

If you do not want this, do not invite this man to live in your house. Him knowing that 50/50 input into the household chores is very important to you, doesn't mean that it is very important to him.

If he was kind, intelligent and hardworking plus giving a hoot about making a good impression you during your visit, he would have made an effort to clean his surroundings. He did not. Draw from that what you will, bearing in mind that he's still in the impressing you phase, and it will get much much worse if he gets his feet under your table.

I suspect my ex is autistic. He is very much the same: if you tell him to do something, he’ll do it.If I didn’t tell him to do something, it wouldn’t get done. But he never got that this in its self is tiring. I’m too old to be mothering someone like that.

He may be nice but this sort of thing would wind you up no end. He might try really hard for a while, but it won’t be long term. Don’t let him give up his life in the USA when you have these doubts.

@Quitelikeit he'd need to either get a work visa, with sponsorship, or we'd eventually need to get married. He works in a niche field which will help his chances of getting a job on a skilled visa pathway.

Yes we can get a cleaner, but I will still out earn him significantly so ultimately it would be me paying for it. Of course it could be factored into % contribution to the household etc etc but it kind of shakes out the same way IMO. I've not actually ever done anything other than 50-50 so I'm not familiar with how it would work

I do love him, he's a great person and is very kind.

I think my issue is my love language is acts of service. It means a lot more to me if a partner cooks me a meal or fixes my car than says something nice or whatever. I want someone to do things for me, and I like doing things for other people too.

In my personal experience, if that’s your love language, do NOT compromise. You will end up regretting it.
i compromised mine (i was young and naive) and 17 years later ive had enough of not having my needs met and pushing down that part of myself. Especially with soneone is autistic, they don’t change for anyone!

Completely agree, with both your comments.

Fucking Helllllll
run a mile girl.

unless you want adopt this young teenaged boy as your new son

why do people blame laziness for autism every time ffs

I think you need to consider carefully what you want your future to look like long term op. Essentially you'd be taking on the role of carer if he's unable to practice good independent living skills. Some people are able to learn and stick to these and the routine serves them well, but others will find this much harder and as you say may need help from a cleaner. That's one thing, but you're correct about having to be the one to hold the mental load. He may be depressed and struggling with executive function and wasn't able to do the things he knows how to do with you present because it was a lot of pressure or this is how he lives. The military has a lot of routine and structure and it's possible he's done okay with that but then burnt out or can't apply it in his own life by himself for whatever reason, it could be due to trauma or poor mental health. Or it's lies and the long distance element of your relationship has allowed him to create a fantasy dialogue of who he wishes he was.

However, the reason is kind of unimportant because he's an adult and therefore has to be accountable for himself meaning that if there's something he can't do he needs to learn how, seek support with it or pay someone else to do it. He can't just opt out if he expects to live communally with another person.

So your options really are to continue the relationship and accept that is what your future looks like and really think about if you want kids in that environment, stay together but live independently and I would not be considering having a family in that scenario either unless you are happy to do it alone. Or you separate and find someone who meets your needs and who you can see a future with - someone who will be an equal part of your team.

I think you have to accept that he will not change, and decide whether you can live with that.

My DH leaves his crap everywhere, every day. He never wipes down the kitchen surfaces, as far as I can see. He leaves the kitchen bin till it is bursting at the seams.

For years I just accepted it, but now I’m in perimenopause I think “fuck this sh*t” and I call him out on it. There have been some improvements, but it’s hard going.

You have the chance to get out before you’re stuck dealing with this crap for decades. My DH has other great qualities which make up for the house stuff, and I’m not perfect myself either, so it kind of works. But just be sure you can tolerate it if he doesn’t change. Because he almost certainly won’t.

I don't personally think this is very different the average man. If you raise it and he deals with it then would the relationship be great? I think try to raise the issue rather than ditch like this. Some people are way OTT about this - it's not a values thing here imo it's different expectations and families etc. But all depends on if he can change though.

Nope. Dump him.

Also, there's no such thing as love languages - the whole concept was invented by some fundie Christian to get incompatible couples to stay in their unsuitable marriages.

He did try and clean up,he bought new towels.my fan has dust on it,not something I even think about I’m afraid.maybe you are expecting too much

It's more important to me that he washes his hands after using the lavatory and before preparing food.

Amazing, this is just like my first visit to stay with my DH. He told me he'd spent several days cleaning before I arrived, but I honestly couldn't see where he'd cleaned anything and the house ranged from messy to dirty to disgusting. I quickly figured out that he simply had no clue what 'clean' was, but because we were in a LDR I didn't know the extent of the problem until I came to stay for six months on a fiancee visa. Reader, I married him, and I loved him truly and well, but his being extremely messy/dirty/a borderline hoarder was a source of much stress for the next 15 years. I often felt that, like you OP, I wasn't comfortable using or even touching things in (what became) my own home unless I spent every waking moment (that didn't involve working for money) cleaning.

If I had a do-over I'd still have wanted to be with him, no question, which is a testament to him given how difficult and stressful it was most of the time. As you say, I had to do everything, and because I also commuted and worked long hours (many evenings) I was always exhausted, plus I just didn't have the time it would take to rein in the mess - he could be in a room for five minutes and leave it looking like a tornado had torn through it, and he wfh before wfh was even a thing, so the poor house never had a break - so everything was always not just untidy, not just not-sparkling, but somehow truly gross - like mysteriously sticky, or what's that black stuff, and there was a smell... - no matter how much cleaning I did, which was stressful. Fighting about it (which will happen eventually no matter how much good will the two of you have now) was stressful too, although it never made any difference because things like this are really hard to change as people's basic conceptions of what's acceptable or correct can be so wildly different. My DH basically thought I was insane for wasting my time cleaning, and he thought 'clean' was what happened after you ran a little cold water over [any item including pets and children] or, in the case of food or anything oily or sticky, just wiped your hands on your clothes or any nearby bit of cloth, and carried on. He was an intelligent and intuitive person otherwise, with advanced degrees, spoke six languages, a job with a lot of responsibility etc, so his slobbiness was just a huge blind spot, and it wasn't because he'd been raised in a slovenly environment - his mum was super neat and was always dropping hints (like giving him a book called 'Household Management for Men' for Christmas).

In almost all other respects we were eerily compatible, and given that he died young I'm so happy I stuck with him and had those years together... but at the same time, being so incompatible in a way that produces ongoing stress and exhaustion isn't a life I'd wish on anyone. (I do think that if both people are terrible slobs, they'll get along fine as their expectations will align - I have friends in couples like this - or even if one partner is a slob and the other just doesn't care that much, it seems to work out fine. For me, living with mess creates mental load and stress, while DH had the superpower of being able to just... not see it, for years at a time, until it got so big that it started falling on him or caught on fire.

I guess my best advice, OP, is to think very hard about what you can handle. If you're incompatible with your partner in this particular way it can make you feel very unsupported, even actively undermined, even if he doesn't mean to make you feel that way. Add that to the stress and exhaustion of having to take care of the entire household on your own, and even with the best will in the world you'll likely end up feeling bad about him. And, while I used to be pretty normal about cleaning, I think - I wasn't overly concerned with it, but more or less did it - I've definitely been changed by the long-term stress, and now I get upset if there's a tiny bit of something on the floor. It feels like if I relax, even a little, the huge filthy mess will come roaring back and overwhelm me again. I won't say I have PTSD as it's not that serious, but it's something in the general area of that kind of delayed stress reaction, and again I wouldn't want that for anyone.

(I'd say 'But if you love him, maybe you can work it out' - for example, if you have enough money you could budget for a cleaner, and problem sorted! - but your description of him, 'he isn't a bad guy but he should know better', really doesn't sound like the thinking of someone who's deeply in love, or even infatuated...?? and if you're considering moving in with someone, i.e. you're at an early stage of the relationship, and 'not a bad guy' is the best you can do, perhaps there are issues other than cleanliness...?)

After DH died I sold our filthy house, which required two rounds of deep cleaning by a professional team of four. I'm now a lodger living in a single room, which I've painted white. The room has almost nothing in it, and what's there is all new and white. It's all very, very clean and neat and minimal, and it's so restful - I can feel myself relaxing whenever I'm in it...

I mean… apart from the toilet bowl he doesn’t sound that bad. Some towel fluff and a dusty fan? You are incompatible, people have different standards of what’s acceptable cleanliness. If you can’t accept his benign slobbery then he isn’t the man for you.

Apart from being dirty and living with one set of sheets (yeeeuch), what exactly do you know about this guy? He has a "complex professional job" but appears to be broke - why else would he be living like a hobo? You say you will be the main breadwinner if he moves over to the UK - that set all my alarm bells ringing - why can't he get a job here?
Have you met any of his family, his colleagues, or his friends? If the answer is no then run.
Check out his back story, was he really US military? This seems difficult to believe tbh.
I think you are being massively taken for a ride here. There is no way on earth that you should allow a man, who is essentially a stranger whose living habits disgust you, to come to live with you from another country.

OP, don't listen to the people telling you that you're too demanding and controlling.

There is nothing wrong with expecting basic life skills from a 33 year old man.
And it's absolutely ridiculous for this man to expect you to teach him how to be a fully functioning adult.
Next thing he's going to throw at you is the weaponised incompetence "but you do it so much better/faster than I do. It's so much easier for you. You're just better at it than I am".

Your bar is exactly where it should be.
We all know the life ahead. Dont settle.