Have I done enough to try and save my marriage?

[HaveIDoneEnough]

Just looking for some opinions.

Mid forties, married to DH for 7 years, together 12 years, two DC, 10 and 5. Had first DC quite quickly into the relationship.

I'd warning signs from him of emotional unavailability early on. Lack of deep connection. Anyhow, we married. I think both of us were just dealing with our situation and I'm a good one (from childhood) to just survive. We get on well superficially but when the babies were small, I felt very unsupported, mostly left to me, I had no life of my own as he didn't want to mind them too much, when a family member died, he was no support. All this took it's toll on me.

I highlighted my unhappiness early on, nothing changed. He insisted he loved me but I never felt loved. Trust me, I'm not a roses & champagne romantic but I never felt loved. I wanted that connection. I have been in therapy for about six years and I've sorted my s**t out, I've grown a lot more emotionally. I even thought perhaps he might have some personality disorder. It was like he was telling me one thing and I was feeling another, bit like being gaslit. My theory is that he has an inability to put someone else before himself (bit narcissistic) and there's something in his past that shut him down. Again, he won't explore this.

We have effectively been separated for two years, we've been living separate lives emotionally anyway (no one else on either side) and the bedroom side has been dead from my side for about two years. We are like friends, sometimes have fun, similar sense of humour, can chat together about general things. Then there are the two kids. I asked him last year to attend therapy to look at his side of the relationship, he hasn't. He keeps saying, tell me what you want me to do!!! I can't do that. He does not want to separate and would be happy with that lack of connection.

AIBU to divorce or have I exhausted everything? I never wanted my marriage to fail. We are financially very comfortable, I don't need to work. I could live the good life, stay for the kids, live a reasonably happy existence, have my freedom to travel etc. I'm realistic to know that being in my mid-forties, that there's a good chance I will never get the connection I crave.

Any advice or opinions are more than welcome.

So, I'm in a similar situation.

Have you had a deeper, more emotionally connected relationship before, with someone else?

I've had a marriage before where we were much more emotionally connected and in tune, but there were other problems with that relationship.

In my current marriage, there is definitely an emotional distance, but I suspect that is because that is all he knows of relationships. His family relationships are like that, his parents were like that, his first marriage was like that.

When I said to him (for years) "I want us to be emotionally closer" that is a language he just doesn't understand. He doesn't know what that is like, he doesn't know what to give me to facilitate that.

It's only been the last year or so (of our 6 year relationship) that I've realised that I'm okay with that. In weighing up pros and cons, there are more pros than cons, so I wouldn't leave. At this point - obviously I reasess periodically.

In fact, I've learned not to rely on a partner for that connection, which I have used as a crutch somewhat in other relationships. It's enabled me to grow within myself in ways that I wouldn't have otherwise. I've also seen that when I look at other relationships where I did have that connection it is with a fair amount of bias. They had issues that my current partner doesn't have.

Only you can decide if you need more, and if you should leave to find it. Not having an intimate relationship of any sort would be very lonely and I can see why you would want to leave.

What a very thoughtful reply @tessellated2 I hope OP reflects before the usual AIBU pile on.

Yes, I have had a very deep connection with someone but the situation was difficult and we split up. I actually met DH just after breaking up with that person.

I definitely think DH doesn't understand what I mean about connection. His family are quite like him, so I can see where it comes from.

I suppose what kills me, is that I have brought up my unhappiness for years, he dismissed it and now when I want to separate, he wants me to tell him what to do! I told him two years ago to go and speak to someone about his part in our marriage, he didn't, left me unhappy. I also find it hard to forgive his actions when my DB died suddenly.

I'm actually a very independent self sufficient woman. Love my own company but I do yearn for that human connection/partnership. I've good friends too.

It's so hard and has and continues to cause me so much stress.

Thank you for replying.

Well, CAN you tell him specifically what you want? What do you mean by an emotional connection? What would indicate that you have it?

And if you've done all that, yes, move on.

I don't think you can make someone go to therapy if they don't think they need it.
I've also been with someone who had absolutely no emotional literacy. They didn't understand 'love' - as long as their partner was in the room with them, everything was great. I've had a relationship where the intimacy was off the scale, but he couldn't deal with anything practical at all and the relationship ended because he left for someone else, so all the emotional connection in the world didn't help.

I think you have to decide whether it's worth giving up something that's a 'bit' ok in the hopes that you might meet someone who fulfils that other part that's missing but might have faults in other directions. Nobody is perfect, I guess, is what I mean, and you have to decide how much imperfection you can live with.

Too much

I could have written this, but I’m 23 year years in with teens. I’ve had lots of therapy and realised how much of myself I’ve lost as a caretaker - DH has kinks too mainly likes to be dominated and I’ve realised I don’t want that anymore plus I want the emotional connection. It’s a sad lonely place to be.

Leave him OP, that’s no marriage x

I had exactly the same marriage and left 5 years ago. I couldn’t live with feeling unloved. My DH said he loved me but there wasn’t a close emotional connection and I felt very lonely. We did go to couples therapy at my DH’s request after I’d asked for a divorce and he said similar things to your DH - tell me what to do, let’s try - when I felt I’d been trying for years and had nothing left to give.

I had a very comfortable life and still do but not quite to the same extent! I want to feel safe and secure and I can do that on my own. It’s trite but money doesn’t make you happy past a certain point.

I was miserable without the emotional connection and honestly tried for the 14 years of the relationship. We co-parent our two girls and he said the other day about him having autism. I don’t know if he was joking or had been tested but it really hit home with me especially as my current partner’s kids are autistic.

Good luck. Choosing what to do next is hard x

Explain to me, like I’m your husband, what that connection looks like, feels like.

Ive had relationships with an amazing connection. I’ve had more superficial ones. Both have made me happy in different ways.

For the two posters who asked about connection, for me it's:

We can sit and chat and I feel heard, I've rarely had that with DH.
After intimacy, he doesn't go straight on his phone.
He doesn't sit and stare at his computer in the sitting room while I sit there.
He will talk about his past.
Be curious about me, get to know me. DH doesn't want to know about my past in any way. So I don't believe he knows me fully. Obviously I don't want to harp on about exs but all the same, those relationships and situations were part of my life.
Intimacy was always when he wanted, he never saw that I might be tired, feeling down. I want someone to see me, the person.
When I felt down over the years, particulary a few months after DB died, what's wrong with you, there's always something wrong with you was his reply. That broke our marriage, I don't want that going forward.
When I miscarried, I carried that alone. I don't want to go it alone for a trauma like that.
When my DB & Dad died, he just didn't get it. Life went on as normal for him. It was almost like an inconvenience. I don't want that.
All the issues in the marriage, are mine. Even when I calmly asked him to talk to someone about his part in our marriage situation. That was his response. I want accountability.
I want someone who takes responsibility and accountability for our marriage.

DH isn't a bad person. He sometimes looks like a lost boy but I can't fix that. I do feel there's narcissistic traits there and/or he may be on a spectrum. But if someone isn't willing to look in the mirror, as his wife, I can't shoulder it any more.

Since my DB died tragically in 2023, I don't have any more energy. I also truly believe life is shorter than any of us think. DH has had two years since then to pick up the baton and try but he hasn't. He's reacting now as he knows I am very serious. All along, he's been ok with my being in turmoil. In fact his answer now is, well if that's what you want, I don't want it. Sad thing is, I still love him (not intimately) in some way but I love me more these days.

I get all that op I really do.

Have you said all that, as directly as that, couched in terms of what you do want rather than what you don’t.

I have to say though that I think those “skills” are really hard to learn for someone who just doesn’t get it instinctively. And that you sound done to me.

I've constantly said these things to him over the years. He has improved slightly at times but I'm cynical now at this point and I don't trust it. I don't trust any improvement won't revert. I also don't think he believes he needs to change, so any change to me is just window dressing.

If I felt he understood, believed he needed to look at himself, I'd have given him that chance numerous times but he hasn't. In fact, he's batted it back to me, that they are all my issues. One response was, aren't you lucky I'm not down the pub every evening and I'm not hitting you am I!

Feeling unsupported after bereavement is a really underrated reason for relationship breakdown. I’ve seen it more after parents die, but a sibling dying is a huge thing to deal with. Two years is nothing.

Which does lead me to say… two years is nothing. You are barely out of shock at the loss. This may be too early for you to make such a big decision.

I’m also struck that you have a lot of psychological labels for things he’s done, but none for yourself.

Maybe ask him if he remembers any of the things you have wanted in the past.

I know two years isn't a lot. It's why I gave him the time to look at himself, he didn't do it. I can't do anymore, I was very clear on that. He still did nothing.

I've plenty labels for myself, I've had six years of therapy. I've looked in the mirror. I've told him that I am not faultless in the marriage, I know my downfalls, admitted them to him. You know what he did, threw them at me in arguments. Used them against me.

I’m very sorry about your losses, OP. That sounds very tough and, especially with your DB, i can see why it would make you reluctant to spend more time in a relationship that doesn’t serve you particularly well.

If your H won’t attend therapy, it’s hard to know how this can be mended. As you say, you had your first DC relatively quickly and perhaps you would not have settled down with him if it weren’t for the DCs. It does sound a bit as if he may have been a rebound from another relationship. But then again, you say you had connection in the other relationship but it clearly didn’t last.

There are some expectations which you express which seem a bit excessive to me. You seem to suggest that your H should show an interest in your romantic history. Actually, i think it’s quite reasonable for him not to want to know the details of your romantic history.

Also, you mention not having to work. If you’re at home alone much of the time, you may crave company more than he does; or you may at least crave adult company more than he does. So there may be an imbalance there.

But what you say about your sex life is troubling - it sounds like he was often selfish and thoughtless before it ended.

Overall, it really doesn’t sound like much of a marriage and it doesn’t sound like he’s really willing to change.

Just beware grass is greener thinking. You may meet an amazing man who gives you connection and with whom you can build a life but equally you may not so you need to be comfortable that ending your marriage is the best thing for you even if you remain single afterwards.

There's some great reflective posts here and you should definitely consider them.

But I also want to say: it's not your responsibility to "fix" him. You know this, I can tell from the tone of your messages, but I wanted to make you you remember and reflect on that point too.

Firstly, thank you to everyone for your posts. I am reflecting on all of them. It's why I posted in the first place, to get opinions and thoughts.

It was a rebound to be honest. It was the opposite of the high emotion that I had been in. The relationship with DH was easy, no drama. I do think if we hadn't have had our first DC that we probably wouldn't be together.

I have only recently finished up working. I intend working in the next few months, I'm just having some time off. I do get your point about being at home a lot, four wall syndrome if you like.

The way I feel now. I don't want another relationship. I just want to breathe. I just want to look after the kids and myself. I'm exhausted with the marriage. I do know that I may never meet anyone. However, I'd rather that than be lonely within something. I've actually been ok while we've been separated. I'm quite independent. I'd just like an equal partner with some intimate love.

DH and I could stay together but I've zero interest in an intimate life with him. We are friends if you like. Is that fair on either of us at 45 and 50 years of age.

I'm asking these questions of myself because I know the grass isn't necessarily greener. But then I am ok with being alone.

Have you asked him for space at all? For him to move elsewhere for a period of time? Sometimes that time apart crystallises what is needed. Sorry OP, sounds really sad, I’ve never really found that emotional connection either in relationships, only in female friendships 😔.
Throwing your ‘downfalls’ at you is very low and one way to ensure you don’t tell him anything of significance going forward.

Why does he need to change who he is to save your marriage? You say the signs were there but “anyhow, we married.” What actually happened was, the relationship was already not what you wanted, but you agreed to marry him anyway, and now you want him to change into the guy you wanted to be with but didn’t have. He is (presumably) happy how he is and happy with the marriage. Of course when you get married you each knock off your rough edges to make thing work, and you want to be someone your partner is happy with, but what you are asking of him is a fundamental change to who he is in order to be what you need. If you can’t change your need for an emotional connection, how can you expect him to change to be the kind of person who wants that too if it isn’t who he is? Instead of throwing terms about like selfish and narcissistic, how about seeing him as someone who is self sufficient and takes responsibility for his own emotions?

I couldn’t be with someone so needy they wanted constant validation of how deep our connection was, I don’t have that in me. That’s why I wouldn’t ever have married someone like that.

Neither of you are wrong for feeling the way you do, it’s just that on the most basic level you are entirely incompatible. It’s a shame for your children that this is the case, but it does seem like this marriage will never work and your if walking away is what you need to do then so be it.

For the past year we have been using another house. So he will go for two nights, then I'll go for a night while the kids stay at home. It's given me a bit of space, don't think he likes it. For most of our marriage, he sat there in the corner on his computer while I tended to everything, now he has to do it himself.

We are separated but there's been no one else on my side anyhow. He just doesn't want to make it legal.

He is the one who doesn't want to divorce so yes if he wanted the marriage to work then he needs to do something? I can't do anymore.

I agree we are incompatible on a fundamental level.

I disagree that I am very needy. I'm not at all. I have needs which he can't meet. Very different.

@BoredZelda
Im not sure about what you posted, it’s a bit harsh in my opinion. I think it’s basic human compassion to treat your spouse kindly after a traumatic sibling death. The way OP describes how her husband was with her post -death is not kind at all. So in my view, I think that is much more important rather than seeking a deep emotional connection-being a decent human being.

Sometimes work colleagues and friends are more instinctively kind post bereavement, than one’s own husband.

Unless the question is

“Have WE done enough to save OUR marriage”

it’s not going to work.

I think you know that this isn’t going to change. Lifetime learning and habits are very hard to break and effectively you want him to change.

By reading your posts, I think you are done and it’s time to be brave and instigate the separation. He doesn’t have to like it, it’s not his decision.