Have I done enough to try and save my marriage?

[HaveIDoneEnough]

Just looking for some opinions.

Mid forties, married to DH for 7 years, together 12 years, two DC, 10 and 5. Had first DC quite quickly into the relationship.

I'd warning signs from him of emotional unavailability early on. Lack of deep connection. Anyhow, we married. I think both of us were just dealing with our situation and I'm a good one (from childhood) to just survive. We get on well superficially but when the babies were small, I felt very unsupported, mostly left to me, I had no life of my own as he didn't want to mind them too much, when a family member died, he was no support. All this took it's toll on me.

I highlighted my unhappiness early on, nothing changed. He insisted he loved me but I never felt loved. Trust me, I'm not a roses & champagne romantic but I never felt loved. I wanted that connection. I have been in therapy for about six years and I've sorted my s**t out, I've grown a lot more emotionally. I even thought perhaps he might have some personality disorder. It was like he was telling me one thing and I was feeling another, bit like being gaslit. My theory is that he has an inability to put someone else before himself (bit narcissistic) and there's something in his past that shut him down. Again, he won't explore this.

We have effectively been separated for two years, we've been living separate lives emotionally anyway (no one else on either side) and the bedroom side has been dead from my side for about two years. We are like friends, sometimes have fun, similar sense of humour, can chat together about general things. Then there are the two kids. I asked him last year to attend therapy to look at his side of the relationship, he hasn't. He keeps saying, tell me what you want me to do!!! I can't do that. He does not want to separate and would be happy with that lack of connection.

AIBU to divorce or have I exhausted everything? I never wanted my marriage to fail. We are financially very comfortable, I don't need to work. I could live the good life, stay for the kids, live a reasonably happy existence, have my freedom to travel etc. I'm realistic to know that being in my mid-forties, that there's a good chance I will never get the connection I crave.

Any advice or opinions are more than welcome.

You are brave OP I wish I could be brave, I could have written all this.

I don't feel brave. I feel like we both f**ked it up and I feel sad for our kids. The only consolation is that we get on ok and I hope longer term that will continue so the impact on the kids isn't as bad as it could be.

How is your situation now?

I don’t feel like we fucked up in that we were both 22 and met at Uni, I think together we didn’t think it’d get this far but my therapy has opened by eyes.

I do feel for the kids living in this marriage where everything he does irritates me and he just gets cross at me all the time. He doesn’t know how to show his emotions - well he can show anger.

Our sex life is abysmal twice in the last year and mainly cos he’s just not interested unless I’m leading, through my therapy I see deep reasons why we are together I learnt my caretaking role through childhood trauma and here I am caretaking him.

I think it’s hard to say you fucked up - you did what you did at the time as the person you were. We are human right, nothing is perfect. I think we are heading towards a separation, our youngest has been diagnosed with autism and I can see it’s likely he is autistic too.

He has said if he goes for therapy it will mess our relationship up?! It’s a difficult situation to be in, we have a low mortgage but school fees. I sacrificed my career but I do feel between us we could separate and perhaps still build an ok life for the kids. I don’t know.

For me it boiled down to ' can I look my kids in the eye in the future and tell them I tried everything and did not 'split the family up' without valid reasons '.

Would you attend couples therapy together with the aim of building in your connection? Not to air grievances but to build connection? There are several techniques to do this. The grass isn’t always greener.

@HaveIDoneEnough
I am sorry about your losses. It does sound to me that you are still not over and that you are most likely depressed. Counselling on it’s own may not be enough - chronic depression can be quite difficult to treat.

As to your marriage - it is hard to tell. There is resentment, there are small children, and there are very clearly different personalities and needs. You are very clearly depressed and, possibly in peri.
The way you talk about this ‘connection’ is quite telling. The intensity of feeling and involvement in each other emotions, etc - that you miss from a previous relationship is a fantasy. And it’s what happens in younger intense relationships that burn bright and not work out. Because life is not a fantasy. It is boring and long slog - especially while raising small kids.
You have a comfortable life, a H that makes your life possible for you and the kids. You don’t work. You do more household/childrearing - he provides financial security. But as many bored women in your situation/age - you are unhappy because you don’t feel loved.
I have seen several women like you who exploded their lives at similar life stage for similar reasons.

Now it’s several years later and mostly they are far worse off. Not happier because they are on their own. And the impact on the kids has been horrible. On practical/financial level their lives are harder too.

And i say this as a divorced mother of two.

To be honest OP, this just sounds like a bad relationship. He just sounds unsupportive and unkind. Emotional unavailability (in an otherwise good relationship) would suggest a lack true understanding or deeper connection but this just sounds like he is selfish and unsupportive.

We've tried therapy but he won't engage in any meaningful way. We've tried two different therapists and they said there wasn't much they could work with.

I think DH would like us to do what you suggest but you can't just wipe the past away. He even suggested we just be boyfriend and girlfriend and forget the marriage part!

I can relate to most of the things you’ve said, OP. I’ve been married for 15 years and together for 19 and I guess I did not realise about the full extent of his emotional unavailability until a few years into the relationship. I feel like I projected a lot onto him from my own past experiences (had an abusive marriage before) and as he seemed to be nice and chilled out, I thought he would be someone I would be able to share my innermost thoughts and feelings with. Like you, I have toyed with the idea of staying married and just pretending to be ok but it’s untenable: lack of emotional connections builds resentment which in turn kills intimacy and creates a time bomb waiting to explode.

I’m also at the stage of wondering if there is any hope and like you, I feel I will never get what I crave and neither will he. Is your husband happy with your non-existent sex life? I feel that agreeing to go to therapy, whether jointly or individually should be non-negotiable. If, after that, you both realise nothing more can be done, then at least you’ve delved more deeply into the issues that you seem to be unable to discuss without external help. That can only be a positive thing going forward.

@jsku I think you have made a lot of assumptions in your post.

I'm not very depressed. I'm grieving for sure and I am most likely in some way depressed over my marriage. I'm definitely not over my DB and I don't discount the impact. I attend regular therapy to help with that.

I don't want to get into the financials but you have me very wrong at being a bored housewife. I've worked all my life, up until a two months ago in a very professional responsible, well paid job. It was me who helped us become so financially secure at the beginning. I also invested wisely. So no, DH hasn't provided the financial security all on his own.

I agree. There's the emotional unavailability and the times where he has been unkind and selfish.

A point I've left out of my posts. He's now on Tinder.

It does sound like it's just a relationship that's plodded on for longer than it should. I may be being naive but as you are separated already and he's on Tinder does it matter if he doesn't want a divorce? It's not a if you can cut ties completely, you have 2 small kids. He may meet someone who is suspicious of the ' we're separated' line ( even though in your case is true). You can have some time off work, maybe have bereavement counselling on your own. I dont think at the age your kids are that they would be damaged by divorce as long as you are amicable. It's the fighting that causes the damage. Leave him to it, make sure the kids have a warm and supportive place to come home to. If someone refuses to engage in therapy or change you can't do anything.

This is what I'm focusing on. Ensuring my kids are ok, trying to be the best I can be mentally and emotionally by giving myself space to breathe and have therapy.

He's entitled to be on Tinder, it doesn't bother me. I'm sad he hasn't tried to do anything about our marriage, that was my reaction when I found out about Tinder.

It's just frustrating when he says it's all my decision, it's not what he wants.

I suppose that's why I posted. Just for some more opinions and thoughts. I'm well aware my own stuff is involved in the breakdown of my marriage however I just can't do it on my own. As the last therapist said to me, there's no meeting of minds between you and there wasn't much I could do.

The Tinder move might have been an attempt to make you jealous.

If you are not bothered OP, it’s over. Just need to finalise it.

My husband is decision averse. It's extremely irritating when he leaves me to make decisions then says 'I always thought this was a bad idea' if something goes wrong or ' it was your decision' when he made no attempt to contribute to the decision making. It's a way of abdicating responsibility so nothings his fault. It's he like that?

Yes he leave every decision to me. Leaves all the adulting, it's exhausting.

I'd decide to divorce him then! But as you say it's difficult because he hasn't made any effort then because you've made the decision he can say to the kids ' I wanted to stay married but mum wanted a divorce'. I'm not sure what the answer is on that one. Just hope the kids understand why you left?

I guess I just have to back my decision.

I do feel 90% sure of my decision, that I've done as much as I could do.

Hopefully when my kids know me as adults then they will understand the decision and understand me.

I read a post recently where the op described how her soon to be exDH always wanted to be 'the good guy'. I found that useful personally - where his view of himself is more important than what actually happens. His marriage is ending and so he could try to do something about it, but he isn't doing anything. He says he doesn't want it to end and so he gets to be the good guy in his head. But his words and his actions are contradictory. We all know this - but look at his actions and not his words. Crazy that this has to be the advice on how to interact with a grown man who has been married for years with children! More appropriate for a 'I've had 4 dates with this guy' post - but here in lies the problem.

There's a lot of this going on. He wants to be the good guy. He hasn't even told his own parents. He wants the kids to not blame him. I would never blame him to the kids anyhow. I'm emotionally mature enough to not do that nor is it all his fault.

The fact is. I'm not fully blaming him, I take some of the blame. What I've done that he hasn't done, is look in the mirror, at myself, flaws and all and how that has impacted the marriage. He won't hear of doing that, all issues are mine and he is who he is. Someone posted up thread that it isn't his responsibility to change and I agree to an extent but he is responsible for his marriage and he's been found very wanting in that regard.

I'd have more respect for him if he turned around and said, nah, I'm not changing, lets divorce but he wants to do nothing, stay married, blame me, that all issues are mine. That's not fair and has consequences.

When your husband is on Tinder, the marriage is surely over.

We are separated, he is free to do as he wants.

I want to formalise it, he doesn't, he wants to stay married and have a relationship but without doing anything to fix our issues.

You would think the fact he is on Tinder would be enough for him to get a grip on himself and face reality.

You’re already separated and he is on Tinder AND you were never really that well suited in the first place and stayed together because of an early pregnancy (presumably unplanned) AND your previous attempts to achieve a better understanding of each other have gone nowhere. It seems clear that your marriage is over. He might not want to formalise that with a divorce but it would give you the freedom you want. You can give yourself permission to call it a day, i think.

FWIW, some of the most functional families i know have divorced parents who co-parent successfully and reasonably. Some of the most functional adults i know grew up in such families.